OT: Bonds & Clemens Miss HOF

[dhsilv2]

Actually, no, it does not. Cite your conclusive evidence. Don't deflect. You made the claim, it's your burden to prove it so.

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The idea they never used something, you're implied claim is absurd. So no. I'll stick with the most likely thing is what we should assume.

So you're continuing to deflect away from your claim that 99% of professional athletes have used PED's.

Gotcha. That claim seems TOTALLY legit.

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So you have no basis to think that the most likely case isn't true. Got it. You don't like to accept that the obvious reality. And dude if you're over 40, get on steroids! You need them!

[SkyBill40]

The idea they never used something, you're implied claim is absurd. So no. I'll stick with the most likely thing is what we should assume.

So you're continuing to deflect away from your claim that 99% of professional athletes have used PED's.

Gotcha. That claim seems TOTALLY legit.

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So you have no basis to think that the most likely case isn't true. Got it. You don't like to accept that the obvious reality. And dude if you're over 40, get on steroids! You need them!

I don't need to have one. I didn't make the claim. You did. It's YOUR burden of proof. Where's your citable evidence? Or are logical fallacies just your thing?

We're waiting.

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[dhsilv2]

So you're continuing to deflect away from your claim that 99% of professional athletes have used PED's.

Gotcha. That claim seems TOTALLY legit.

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So you have no basis to think that the most likely case isn't true. Got it. You don't like to accept that the obvious reality. And dude if you're over 40, get on steroids! You need them!

I don't need to have one. I didn't make the claim. You did. It's YOUR burden of proof. Where's your citable evidence? Or are logical fallacies just your thing?

We're waiting.

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No you're implying the absurd idea that athletes don't use PED's. You're the one going against the norm.

[SkyBill40]

So you have no basis to think that the most likely case isn't true. Got it. You don't like to accept that the obvious reality. And dude if you're over 40, get on steroids! You need them!

I don't need to have one. I didn't make the claim. You did. It's YOUR burden of proof. Where's your citable evidence? Or are logical fallacies just your thing?

We're waiting.

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No you're implying the absurd idea that athletes don't use PED's. You're the one going against the norm.

No. Ii haven't made any implications here. All I have done is to point out your complete and utter lack of factual support for your asinine claim that nearly ALL professional athletes, irrespective of sport, use PED's.

The sheer absurdity of such a claim is mindblowing.

Come on, dude. Cite your evidence. Put it out there for all to see. I dare you.

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[falcolombardi]

I think he did. What he claimed was that he didn't know the cream he was using contained peds(which I am fairly certain he did know).

IIRC he never actually tested positive. During his court case he admitted to using a steroid cream.

For all intents and purposes, isn't that the same thing though? There was also a list of like 50-100 players who got tested and whose names got leaked in the Mitchell report I believe which is said to have included ARod and I think Bonds. I'm not anti Bonds getting in though either way.

steroid cream is a drug with very common Medical uses, i have had it prescribed to help with skin issues

is like banning use of ashtma drugs by athletes because some people use it to inprove performance

[bebopdeluxe]

Provide your evidence to support the claim you just made. Burden of proof is on you and no one else. While there may have been abuse going on to levels far further reaching than what came to light, to throw out a definitive as you have is utterly absurd and worthless without empirical evidence that can be plainly and easily cited.

Occam's razor pretty much covers this.

Actually, no, it does not. Cite your conclusive evidence. Don't deflect. You made the claim, it's your burden to prove it so.

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Don't waste your time. He can't.

[azcatz11]

I don't need to have one. I didn't make the claim. You did. It's YOUR burden of proof. Where's your citable evidence? Or are logical fallacies just your thing?

We're waiting.

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No you're implying the absurd idea that athletes don't use PED's. You're the one going against the norm.

No. Ii haven't made any implications here. All I have done is to point out your complete and utter lack of factual support for your asinine claim that nearly ALL professional athletes, irrespective of sport, use PED's.

The sheer absurdity of such a claim is mindblowing.

Come on, dude. Cite your evidence. Put it out there for all to see. I dare you.

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Here's what I would say - baseball club houses are a pretty tight knit group. The idea that major stars would be juicing (and the commissioner turning a blind eye, which he did) and the majority were not on something doesn't make sense to me.

I'm of the belief that there are quite a lot players would do anything to give themselves a competitive advantage. Now if we put that number at 25% or 50% or 75%, I have no idea. But it's a sizeable amount IMO

[SkyBill40]

Occam's razor pretty much covers this.

Actually, no, it does not. Cite your conclusive evidence. Don't deflect. You made the claim, it's your burden to prove it so.

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Don't waste your time. He can't.

Oh, I know. The assertion was completely ridiculous from the start and that's the only reason I even chimed in about it.

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[magicman1978]

No you're implying the absurd idea that athletes don't use PED's. You're the one going against the norm.

No. Ii haven't made any implications here. All I have done is to point out your complete and utter lack of factual support for your asinine claim that nearly ALL professional athletes, irrespective of sport, use PED's.

The sheer absurdity of such a claim is mindblowing.

Come on, dude. Cite your evidence. Put it out there for all to see. I dare you.

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Here's what I would say - baseball club houses are a pretty tight knit group. The idea that major stars would be juicing (and the commissioner turning a blind eye, which he did) and the majority were not on something doesn't make sense to me.

I'm of the belief that there are quite a lot players would do anything to give themselves a competitive advantage. Now if we put that number at 25% or 50% or 75%, I have no idea. But it's a sizeable amount IMO

These players are fighting for their careers - either earning millions in the MLB or being down in the minors making peanuts. To think they knew others were taking PEDs when MLB wasnt testing for it and not using themselves because of some moral high ground seems insane to me (and PEDs isn't just steroids).

[SkyBill40]

No. Ii haven't made any implications here. All I have done is to point out your complete and utter lack of factual support for your asinine claim that nearly ALL professional athletes, irrespective of sport, use PED's.

The sheer absurdity of such a claim is mindblowing.

Come on, dude. Cite your evidence. Put it out there for all to see. I dare you.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Here's what I would say - baseball club houses are a pretty tight knit group. The idea that major stars would be juicing (and the commissioner turning a blind eye, which he did) and the majority were not on something doesn't make sense to me.

I'm of the belief that there are quite a lot players would do anything to give themselves a competitive advantage. Now if we put that number at 25% or 50% or 75%, I have no idea. But it's a sizeable amount IMO

These players are fighting for their careers - either earning millions in the MLB or being down in the minors making peanuts. To think they knew others were taking PEDs when MLB wasnt testing for it and not using themselves because of some moral high ground seems insane to me (and PEDs isn't just steroids).

So lemme get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong: Are you aiding with the assertion he's making here? That nearly all professional athletes are cheating the game they play and themselves to gain some "edge"?

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[azcatz11]

Here's what I would say - baseball club houses are a pretty tight knit group. The idea that major stars would be juicing (and the commissioner turning a blind eye, which he did) and the majority were not on something doesn't make sense to me.

I'm of the belief that there are quite a lot players would do anything to give themselves a competitive advantage. Now if we put that number at 25% or 50% or 75%, I have no idea. But it's a sizeable amount IMO

These players are fighting for their careers - either earning millions in the MLB or being down in the minors making peanuts. To think they knew others were taking PEDs when MLB wasnt testing for it and not using themselves because of some moral high ground seems insane to me (and PEDs isn't just steroids).

So lemme get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong: Are you aiding with the assertion he's making here? That nearly all professional athletes are cheating the game they play and themselves to gain some "edge"?

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Do you have a response to my post? I never said most. I think a sizeable amount were. What part of my post do you disagree with?

[Nate505]

Both should be in. Bonds is the greatest player I've ever seen.

Both the MLB and Basketball HOF are the biggest jokes ever, for different reasons.

basketball hof is the best hof for those reasons imo

only hof that doesnt leave all time greats out by having absurdly high standards and recognizes other kind of contributors like internacional stars or wnba stars

although their obsesión/bias with getting every ncaa coach to ever coach into the hof is tiresome

A HOF should have insanely high standards.

[SkyBill40]

These players are fighting for their careers - either earning millions in the MLB or being down in the minors making peanuts. To think they knew others were taking PEDs when MLB wasnt testing for it and not using themselves because of some moral high ground seems insane to me (and PEDs isn't just steroids).

So lemme get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong: Are you aiding with the assertion he's making here? That nearly all professional athletes are cheating the game they play and themselves to gain some "edge"?

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Do you have a response to my post? I never said most. I think a sizeable amount were. What part of my post do you disagree with?

To whom is this directed? Me? Or the other dude?

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[Cavsfansince84]

steroid cream is a drug with very common Medical uses, i have had it prescribed to help with skin issues

is like banning use of ashtma drugs by athletes because some people use it to inprove performance

I don't really get your logic here. Lots of drugs can be prescribed by doctors but aren't legal to use without one or allowed by pro sports leagues. Bonds was going to what was at the time considered the most advanced clinic for peds and I think he was using more than just steroids.He put on about 20-25 lb of pure muscle in a couple of years.

[FrodoFraggins]

The hall has stupid moral clauses in it's BBWA voting rules. And Bonds and clemens were 100% HOFers before they juiced so it makes it complicated. I personally love Ortiz but wouldn't vote him in if Clemens and bonds can't get in.

They'll get in via the veterans committee as they let too many players in without worthy resumes.

Schilling would have gotten in this year for sure if he didn't whine to the hall asking to have his name removed from the ballot. He was only 4% away just a year ago. He's the epitome of borderline HOFer with his 216 career wins and no Cy Youngs.

He shouldn't be borderline. He should be in. He is the greatest postseason pitcher among pitchers with more than ten starts. His 11-2 record with a WHIP of 0.97 in postseason play is damn near ungodly, considering you face nothing but good teams. In his peak years, he had a W/L record of 141-81, his WAR ranks 26th all-time, he led the league in strikeouts twice, batters faced twice, walk ratio twice, wins twice, and he had a WHIP of 1.08, years which were among the most PED-fueled in history. His strikeout to walk ratio of 4.38/1 is the second-best in history among pitchers with more than 1,000 innings pitched.

Postseason performance doesn't have as large of an impact in terms of the hall of fame. And the postseason numbers are harder to compare with classic pitchers who played with fewer rounds in the playoffs.

His peak just wasn't long enough or dominant enough to be a slam dunk. But yeah if he wasn't such a jerk he'd have been elected years ago.

[bebopdeluxe]

steroid cream is a drug with very common Medical uses, i have had it prescribed to help with skin issues

is like banning use of ashtma drugs by athletes because some people use it to inprove performance

I don't really get your logic here. Lots of drugs can be prescribed by doctors but aren't legal to use without one or allowed by pro sports leagues. Bonds was going to what was at the time considered the most advanced clinic for peds and I think he was using more than just steroids.He put on about 20-25 lb of pure muscle in a couple of years.

His skull grew two hat sizes. I mean, there's that.

[seanbig]

Baseball is corrupt

[Cavsfansince84]

I don't really get your logic here. Lots of drugs can be prescribed by doctors but aren't legal to use without one or allowed by pro sports leagues. Bonds was going to what was at the time considered the most advanced clinic for peds and I think he was using more than just steroids.He put on about 20-25 lb of pure muscle in a couple of years.

His skull grew two hat sizes. I mean, there's that.

Ya, there's that. Which suggests big time hgh usage.

[BoatsNZones]

Ultimately, for the players it does not matter much that they are not in the Hall. Everybody who watched them play (specifically Bonds) knows that you were seeing the best players of a generation, and anybody who can parse through stats knows that Barry ranks among the apex of the sports history. For a sport with a litany of scandals throughout its past, all it serves is to relegate their Hall Of Fame absolutely meaningless.

The sport is dying for a reason.

[John Murdoch]

Mark Macguire was juice king