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KembaWalker wrote:Cade rising, Mobley falling hard imo
too hard to change the narrative though
orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
Madhouse wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
He shouldn't be but again perception.
I think Franz has a case to win ROY but no chance they will let him because not many people care about Orlando, don't watch them and also because Franz Wagner was not an AAU star like the others and lowest drafted. Didn't come with the same hype. Is this right? No but that's how it is.
orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
Franz is a better defender based on advanced stats. Cade has more unassisted baskets because he's playing PG. Franz is capable of playing PG also but isn't asked too.reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
basketballRob wrote:Franz is a better defender based on advanced stats. Cade has more unassisted baskets because he's playing PG. Franz is capable of playing PG also but isn't asked too.reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
The bolded, cannot be overstated. We are talking about a rookie who is getting doubled team the same amount as Lebron, and more then Stephen Curry.reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
zeebneeb wrote:The bolded, cannot be overstated. We are talking about a rookie who is getting doubled team the same amount as Lebron, and more then Stephen Curry.reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
The list is insane;
https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en
orlando_joe wrote:reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
if cade misses all those not assisted shots does it matter...lol...but ok...cade is pg and has ball in his hands way more
I believe Wagner will become at 25+ PPG player also. He compares favorably to Tatum his first comple of seasons.reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:reanimator wrote:
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
if cade misses all those not assisted shots does it matter...lol...but ok...cade is pg and has ball in his hands way more
Yes, it actually does matter in a discussion centered around efficiency, unless you're arguing Wagner would have the ball in his hands as much as Cade and keep up the efficiency he has now?
I'm not invested in ROY and look far more to 5 or 10 year redrafts when I think Cade's value will be apparent. Give Wagner the ROY for all I care, but at least contextualize if you're going to use Cade as a litmus to a guy in a completely different role.
That is a very reductionist, and dismissive statement.docholliday99 wrote:zeebneeb wrote:The bolded, cannot be overstated. We are talking about a rookie who is getting doubled team the same amount as Lebron, and more then Stephen Curry.reanimator wrote:
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
The list is insane;
https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en
That's cause there's no one else worthy of guarding on the Pistons.
As for ROY, been a long time but imo, there are 2 rooks neck and neck and deserving of the award - Barnes and Mobley. You can make a strong case for either but even then, the strong case is barely more than the other player.
I know Wagner gets his share of double-teams and that list only goes to 20, Cade is #18. As far as we know Wagner could be #21.zeebneeb wrote:That is a very reductionist, and dismissive statement.docholliday99 wrote:zeebneeb wrote:The bolded, cannot be overstated. We are talking about a rookie who is getting doubled team the same amount as Lebron, and more then Stephen Curry.
The list is insane;
https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en
That's cause there's no one else worthy of guarding on the Pistons.
As for ROY, been a long time but imo, there are 2 rooks neck and neck and deserving of the award - Barnes and Mobley. You can make a strong case for either but even then, the strong case is barely more than the other player.
Not to mention untrue. Truly Bewildering. Root for who you want, makes no difference to me as this entire rookie class has been amazing to watch this season, but making a blatantly false assertion is just silly.
reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:reanimator wrote:
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
if cade misses all those not assisted shots does it matter...lol...but ok...cade is pg and has ball in his hands way more
Yes, it actually does matter in a discussion centered around efficiency, unless you're arguing Wagner would have the ball in his hands as much as Cade and keep up the efficiency he has now?
I'm not invested in ROY and look far more to 5 or 10 year redrafts when I think Cade's value will be apparent. Give Wagner the ROY for all I care, but at least contextualize if you're going to use Cade as a litmus to a guy in a completely different role.
reanimator wrote:orlando_joe wrote:cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?
85% of Franz's 3 pt are assisted, just 28% of Cade's 3 pt are
53% of Franz's 2 pt are assisted, just 22% of Cade's 2 pt are
Franz creates 5.9 potential assist per game, Cade creates 9.7 potential assist per game
Pistons are 1-13 without Cade and 17-34 with him, Orlando has 16 wins with Franz playing every game
Cade is in the top 20 for players who get doubled the most, Franz is not on the list
Franz is a better defender based on what? Because Cade is solid on that end and if there is a gap its not enough to give the nod either way.
As a Michigan fan, I love Franz but his case can be stated without using Cade as some litmus.
JackTalkThai wrote:It’s all about trends and what have you done for me lately. Franz has scored over 15 points just twice in his last ten games. Cade has done so eight times and has scored over 20 six times in his last ten.
Franz is averaging less minutes over the last 15 games but still 50/40/90JackTalkThai wrote:It’s all about trends and what have you done for me lately. Franz has scored over 15 points just twice in his last ten games. Cade has done so eight times and has scored over 20 six times in his last ten.