Can Jokic finish top 10 all time without a championship?

[dhsilv2]

if the nba is entering parity like the 70s when there were EIGHT different ring teams, and jokic doesnt get a ring,,,,,,,,,

THEN NO, especially when rings defines them in the first place.

it would have meant in a decade of more than several evenly matched contenders jokic couldn't pull one out, and lack of support would be no excuse

This is somewhat reasonable! if there isn't a dominate team over the next 6 years and jokic doesn't contend, that would be a bad look. We'll see how this goes, right now he has an exceptionally bad team, but you're right there's no clear best team for now. We'll see what happens the next few years.

[LessEyeTest]

if the nba is entering parity like the 70s when there were EIGHT different ring teams, and jokic doesnt get a ring,,,,,,,,,

THEN NO, especially when rings defines them in the first place.

it would have meant in a decade of more than several evenly matched contenders jokic couldn't pull one out, and lack of support would be no excuse

I like that outlook! How many does he need to win to make your list? (Loved your Bill Walton response btw & also huge Jokic fan)

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

if the nba is entering parity like the 70s when there were EIGHT different ring teams, and jokic doesnt get a ring,,,,,,,,,

THEN NO, especially when rings defines them in the first place.

it would have meant in a decade of more than several evenly matched contenders jokic couldn't pull one out, and lack of support would be no excuse

This is somewhat reasonable! if there isn't a dominate team over the next 6 years and jokic doesn't contend, that would be a bad look. We'll see how this goes, right now he has an exceptionally bad team, but you're right there's no clear best team for now. We'll see what happens the next few years.

This is where I am at. He hasn't gone against many super teams in his prime. There is no dominant team this year, last year was probably the weakest Warriors ring team, No one is saying the 2021 Bucks were an all time great, the bubble Lakers were extremely fragile. I don't think it is wrong to say he probably isn't a GOAT if he can't will his team to one win over his prime in this climate.

Comparing him to Malone, who is 3rd scoring, 7th rebound, 6 WCF and 2 Finals....losing to a GOAT in '98.... and I don't think anyone considers him even in the top 12. Maybe Jokic is slightly better than him when all is said and done, but you aren't passing all of Shaq, Timmy, and Hakeem unless there is a ring. (I think there will be a ring but dont see him getting that high)

[dhsilv2]

if the nba is entering parity like the 70s when there were EIGHT different ring teams, and jokic doesnt get a ring,,,,,,,,,

THEN NO, especially when rings defines them in the first place.

it would have meant in a decade of more than several evenly matched contenders jokic couldn't pull one out, and lack of support would be no excuse

This is somewhat reasonable! if there isn't a dominate team over the next 6 years and jokic doesn't contend, that would be a bad look. We'll see how this goes, right now he has an exceptionally bad team, but you're right there's no clear best team for now. We'll see what happens the next few years.

This is where I am at. He hasn't gone against many super teams in his prime. There is no dominant team this year, last year was probably the weakest Warriors ring team, No one is saying the 2021 Bucks were an all time great, the bubble Lakers were extremely fragile. I don't think it is wrong to say he probably isn't a GOAT if he can't will his team to one win over his prime in this climate.

Comparing him to Malone, who is 3rd scoring, 7th rebound, 6 WCF and 2 Finals....losing to a GOAT in '98.... and I don't think anyone considers him even in the top 12. Maybe Jokic is slightly better than him when all is said and done, but you aren't passing all of Shaq, Timmy, and Hakeem unless there is a ring. (I think there will be a ring but dont see him getting that high)

I've seen Malone pretty high on a few lists, never top 10. But Malone's issue is I already think Jokic has had 2 better peak seasons easily than Malone and you could argue more. Heck, you can argue he's peaked over Duncan and Hakeem as well. I'd like to see him on a team that makes at least a conference finals outside of the bubble and I expect we will see it. But if his teammates are as bad as last year, there's nothing any player in history can do to fix that. You can all that warriors team weak, but Jordan isn't beating them with Jokic's teammates. hakeem isn't and neither is Duncan.

[Infinite Llamas]

Rings are too reliant on team success. I know it’s difficult to separate the player from the team but it’s very necessary in these debates.

Jokic may not have the team success but in terms of play style and effectiveness, one could argue he’s one of the ten most talented players to ever play in the league.

[Vee-Rex]

Is he not already top 10 all time???

[Optms]

He'll finish in the Karl Malone tier without any rings. That's as high as he can reasonably reach considering the question.