Poll: Public sees MJ as GOAT

[Cavsfansince84]

Part of the general public opinion will always be that LeBron will get pushback for his political/social opinions that he's voiced(not that I always agree with him because I don't) but its part of how people will rate and compare him to someone like MJ who also didn't have to deal with the age of social media and 24/7 coverage. LeBron getting hyped like crazy since he was 16 also works against him imo. Lots of people hated him almost from the get go while MJ was basically idolized by the media from 91 onward. This is part of how people will decide who they'd vote for in a poll. It's not a great source of objective analysis. Having said that, I don't think there's a right/wrong answer in the goat debate among 4-5 candidates but the general public will always turn it into more of a popularity contest.

[twyzted]

Water is wet.

Anyone with an IQ above 80 knows MJ is the GOAT.

It's actually disgusting to see LeBron even mentioned in the same breath.

LeBron is not even top 5.

This is funny, because in the PC board there are a bunch of posters who have LeBron higher than MJ in their GOAT lists, and from their arguments you can see their IQ is above 80. In fact, their arguments are galaxies better than the ones wielded here, such as rings and threepeats (team accomplishments, not dependant on the player), or amount of shoes sold (LOL).

I have no dog in this fight because Kareem is my GOAT, but as I said, it's just funny to see the points made by both sides and figure out whose arguments make more sense for someone with high or low IQ.

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

[Kobe187]

No Sh**. MJ was always the clear cut consensus number 1.

#2 is the tricky one, but #2 seems to have a consensus now with James beginning to solidify the spot. Recently used to be very close between James & KAJ for #2 (with Wilt and Bill also receiving some voting support).

[OdomFan]

Water is wet.

Anyone with an IQ above 80 knows MJ is the GOAT.

It's actually disgusting to see LeBron even mentioned in the same breath.

LeBron is not even top 5.

This is funny, because in the PC board there are a bunch of posters who have LeBron higher than MJ in their GOAT lists, and from their arguments you can see their IQ is above 80. In fact, their arguments are galaxies better than the ones wielded here, such as rings and threepeats (team accomplishments, not dependant on the player), or amount of shoes sold (LOL).

I have no dog in this fight because Kareem is my GOAT, but as I said, it's just funny to see the points made by both sides and figure out whose arguments make more sense for someone with high or low IQ.

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

That's what it's all about for them. Anything to prop up Lebron. This is why I'll never buy into any of those advanced sheets. Sure they sound nice on paper, but none of that takes into account some other more simple things like the fact that as good as Lebron James has always been on the court. He has lacked being able to be coached more often then not compared to other all time greats. Which is why there is no iconic coach in Lebrons history like Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe have with Phil, Red for Bill Russell, KC Jones/Bill Fitch for Larry Bird, Pat Riley for Wade, Magic, Kareem, and Worthy to name a few, and Pop for Duncan and Robinson to name one more.

Not to mention the way Lebron left his teams, and when he left them as soon as the going got tough.

[Salieri]

Water is wet.

Anyone with an IQ above 80 knows MJ is the GOAT.

It's actually disgusting to see LeBron even mentioned in the same breath.

LeBron is not even top 5.

This is funny, because in the PC board there are a bunch of posters who have LeBron higher than MJ in their GOAT lists, and from their arguments you can see their IQ is above 80. In fact, their arguments are galaxies better than the ones wielded here, such as rings and threepeats (team accomplishments, not dependant on the player), or amount of shoes sold (LOL).

I have no dog in this fight because Kareem is my GOAT, but as I said, it's just funny to see the points made by both sides and figure out whose arguments make more sense for someone with high or low IQ.

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

[KrAzY3]

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

There's been a major switch in trying to go with cumulative ever since the whole mocking Jordan for lack of early playoff success (and the Wizards boondoggle) backfired due to recent Lakers struggles. I mean if someone thinks GOAT means you played longer, sure it's LeBron. But on a 1:1 ratio there's a pretty compelling case that Jordan (even if you ignore the Finals record) was a more impactful player.

[Goomba3666]

Just to add something that hasn't been said...

People also like to say " Phil Jackson was a GOAT coach" and that's why MJ was successful.

But they NEVER talk about what Phil has accomplished as a professional coach before MJ. If you have to Google what PJ did before coaching MJ, then MJ automatically should get a boost as well because it implies that MJ made Phil Jackson relevant.

[justme400e]

Casuals shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Nor should they be allowed to buy tickets near the floor. Both of these should be reserved for us (most of us anyhow).

This x1000

[twyzted]

This is funny, because in the PC board there are a bunch of posters who have LeBron higher than MJ in their GOAT lists, and from their arguments you can see their IQ is above 80. In fact, their arguments are galaxies better than the ones wielded here, such as rings and threepeats (team accomplishments, not dependant on the player), or amount of shoes sold (LOL).

I have no dog in this fight because Kareem is my GOAT, but as I said, it's just funny to see the points made by both sides and figure out whose arguments make more sense for someone with high or low IQ.

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Well according to the stats are on bbref they favour Jordan except for cumulative ones, but even if you avg them out they favour Jordan, i like the avg since they havent played same amount of seasons.

There are some very good posters on the pc board, but for instance in the thread i mentioned, that ohayokd seems to have some weird issue with Jordan and since the numbers he refrences are locked behind a paywall i take them with a grain of salt, i want to be able to see them myself.

Some of the numbers he uses have derek fisher in 2001 as more impactful then Lebron in 2016 playoffs.
Some have David robinson as more impactful than Jordan in the 90s.
So that is my issue with relaying on stats they dont always show the correct picture, for me stats are there to help, not paint the whole picture.

[MavsDirk41]

This is funny, because in the PC board there are a bunch of posters who have LeBron higher than MJ in their GOAT lists, and from their arguments you can see their IQ is above 80. In fact, their arguments are galaxies better than the ones wielded here, such as rings and threepeats (team accomplishments, not dependant on the player), or amount of shoes sold (LOL).

I have no dog in this fight because Kareem is my GOAT, but as I said, it's just funny to see the points made by both sides and figure out whose arguments make more sense for someone with high or low IQ.

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

[Taj FTW]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

Yes yes Mavsdirk. Another very compelling argument by you.

[Sedale Threatt]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

Ive seen people there say that David Robinson was more impactful then Jordan.

Jordan ranks higher then Lebron in most advanced stats that arent cumulative. Per, ws/48, obpm, dbpm, bpm etc.

He has 10 of top30 points per75 for regular season.
He has 10 of top16 points per75 for playoffs.

And using this casual vs non casual as vality of opinion is rather weak, and seems to be used mostly by Lebron stans to prop up his argument like the tend to do a lot of.

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

He’s got one of the most impressive resumes in NBA history. What exactly do you think he’s lacking?

[Optms]

No Sh**. MJ was always the clear cut consensus number 1.

#2 is the tricky one, but #2 seems to have a consensus now with James beginning to solidify the spot. Recently used to be very close between James & KAJ for #2 (with Wilt and Bill also receiving some voting support).

On the streets of RealGM, you'll probably start seeing Tim Duncan ranked number 2 in another 5 years. If not GOAT. Duncan literately is the only player whose stock has risen after he retired on the all time list.

[cam24thomas]

LeBron is the Sam Snead of basketball, while MJ is the Tiger.

[MavsDirk41]

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

He’s got one of the most impressive resumes in NBA history. What exactly do you think he’s lacking?

Jordan, Russell, James, and Kareem all are goat candidates imo. But i have Jordan and Kareem over James.

[MavsDirk41]

I don't deny there are a lot of Pro-Lebron posters in the PC board (not that there's anything wrong with it).

And yeah, I've read the thread you're talking about. They are making a strong argument towards LeBron being more impactful, and by the way they disagree with you on most advanced stats favoring MJ in the playoffs.

But, and this was my initial point, they're defending their position with very good points, well reasoned and well presented. And once the debate kicks off, they address the points made by others and reply to them. The conversation advances, with nobody jumping back to square one by saying "but 6-0 in the finals".

I disagree with LeBron being the GOAT, my personal GOAT is Kareem. But it's fair to admit I don't see any way to counter their points, which are based on extensive knowledge of play and stats.

My approach is different. For starters, I believe there isn't one consensus irrefutable GOAT, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I believe all these players (MJ, LBJ, Russell, Kareem) were fairly close in impact and any one of them could beat the others in a given day. I prefer Kareem because, excellence notwithstanding, he played the game in a way that I find "organic", for lack of a better word. I prefer the impact of an all-time center than the one of an all-time wing. I just prefer that brand of basketball. But it's just personal opinion, as I said.

And make no mistake, there are casual takes favoring pretty much every top 10 player. LeBron also has his quota of stans with a casual understanding of the game. It wasn't a dig at MJ, whom I respect a lot. It was a dig at some of the arguments I usually see for crowning him. When we're talking basketball at a certain level, I just can't respect casual takes such as finals MVPs, changing teams, rings won or scoring titles. They're superficial, irrelevant to the discussion and/or team accomplishments.

I hope I made my position clearer. I have absolutely no problem with anyone saying MJ is the GOAT, there are plenty of very knowledgeable posters who can defend that stance better than I could do in my life. I do have a problem with lazy and fallacious arguments. I have a problem with cliches and casual takes. That's all I was saying in my first post.

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

Yes yes Mavsdirk. Another very compelling argument by you.

And what exactly have you added other than a crappy comment?

[Ugalde]

the mystique of lebron just isn’t as fun. like lebron posts a tweet mad that kyrie didn’t join him? like bro kyrie said you’re not clutch. kyrie thinks he’s just as good as you. kyrie is going to the lakers to be your alpha if he shows up. how could you want him to join you? just feels weak.

[NZB2323]

Casuals shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Nor should they be allowed to buy tickets near the floor. Both of these should be reserved for us (most of us anyhow).

So what kind of a team do you have to assemble to prevent Beyoncé from sitting court side because she can’t explain all the advanced stats?

[Taj FTW]

Lebron james fans always point to “stats”

Why dont we look at accomplishments and accoades? Karl Malone scored more points and grabbed more rebounds throughout his career but was he better than Larry Bird?

Yes yes Mavsdirk. Another very compelling argument by you.

And what exactly have you added other than a crappy comment?

I was being sincere. Do you not think the arguments you have been putting up are compelling?

[azcatz11]

Yes yes Mavsdirk. Another very compelling argument by you.

And what exactly have you added other than a crappy comment?

I was being sincere. Do you not think the arguments you have been putting up are compelling?

Why are you hiding behind that Bulls logo? Let's talk about transparency...