Draymond: “European players have not caught the same flak of winning a championship as US players

[dhsilv2]

Post Dirk's title it's kind of true. Jokic isn't getting near the same criticism at this stage of his career that Dirk did. If Luka doesn't get one in the next 2-3 years I think the heat might start to rise on him

Dirk caught flak mainly because he had a couple instances where his team was dominant in the regular season and made to be the favorites in the postseason, and he came up short. This was definitely the case in 2006/2007.

Jokic's team was never the favorite to come out of the West in any season. The Nuggets looking like the #1 seed this year changes that. If the Nuggets clinch the #1 seed but don't win the West this year, then I'm sure you'll start hearing murmurs about how he can't get it done, etc....if it happens a couple years in a row, he'd get similar treatment to what Dirk got pre-2011.

Bingo! Weirdly, some player scan be so successful that they set themselves up to fail with the media. Dirk with the mavs, Giannis with the bucks, and even Lebron with those early cavs teams. They were getting top seeds and not making it through. While not fair, it's reality. The nuggets haven't had a regular season that was strong enough to justify higher expectations.

[jc23]

You guys get pulled offsides so easily. Draymond doesn't mean any of this, or maybe he does, but its irrelevant. He knows his playing career is winding down and its clear he wants to be a major media star for his 2nd act. Saying stuff like this is the path in today's world.

Nobody needs to get upset by anything Skip or SAS or Perk or Draymond say. It's a worked promo nothing more.

so new media just like the old media.

[skones]

That's the point. He was flat out a better candidate than Embiid that season and even Curry, but was a total afterthought.

This sounds like some revisionist history. Giannis had a down-year by his standards that regular season. Bucks were 3rd in the East after finishing 1st in each of the two prior seasons. Voters don’t tend to award an MVP when that happens.

He also only played 61 games.

The only other time that happened was when Bill Walton won it after breaking his foot but the Blazers were 50-8 with him and flat out dominating the league.

No one is winning playing 61 games these days.

Embiid played 51 games or about 430 fewer minutes over the course of the season than Giannis. Still want to sit there and tell me he didn't deserve it over the guy who ultimately took 2nd because Philly won a whopping 3 more games? That's what we're going to say in that context but ignore it when it comes to Curry who's team limped into the play-in?

As far as revisionist history, "down by his standards" shouldn't discount you from the MVP conversation when that standard is still better than the other candidates. Again, this is the type of mental gymnastics I'm talking about to discount a guy from an MVP conversation, which hasn't necessarily been done with Jokic.

[Joao Saraiva]

Draymond is obviously stating they're not criticized as much for not winning vs American players.

They will be. We just didn't have euros yet of the magnitude of LeBron or KD for example.

If Doncic doesn't win one in 2 or 3 years he'll suffer the same pressure. Let's see how he acts then.

[Peregrine01]

You guys get pulled offsides so easily. Draymond doesn't mean any of this, or maybe he does, but its irrelevant. He knows his playing career is winding down and its clear he wants to be a major media star for his 2nd act. Saying stuff like this is the path in today's world.

Nobody needs to get upset by anything Skip or SAS or Perk or Draymond say. It's a worked promo nothing more.

No better way to get things fired up than to race-bait. It's incredible how well identity politics works in the US.

If that's what he's after, pretty sad of him. Draymond had some interesting things to say earlier on in his new media campaign.

[Texas Chuck]

You guys get pulled offsides so easily. Draymond doesn't mean any of this, or maybe he does, but its irrelevant. He knows his playing career is winding down and its clear he wants to be a major media star for his 2nd act. Saying stuff like this is the path in today's world.

Nobody needs to get upset by anything Skip or SAS or Perk or Draymond say. It's a worked promo nothing more.

No better way to get things fired up than to spark race-bait ****. It's incredible how well identity politics works in the US.

If that's what he's after, pretty sad of him. Draymond had some interesting things to say earlier on in his new media campaign.

He can do both, though right? He's got to say the controversial stuff to grow the audience where he can then provide more nuanced takes. Because make no mistake Draymond know the game better than almost any other player in the league. He has a ton of substance to offer. But he's also savvy enough to know he's got to mix in some hot takes to get the aggregators to spread his name everywhere.

Can't blame Draymond. Have to blame all those people, many of whom are in these threads complaining about it ironically enough, who watch those crap "debate" shows, follow aggregators on social media and then rush to post/retweet it themselves. If there wasn't a huge audience for this garbage, Draymond wouldn't engage in it. If quality content sold, he'd stick exclusively to that.

But this is a MILF Island world.

[Joao Saraiva]

I don't know why you guys see the race card in everything. Is it because Jokic and Doncic are white?

I think he was actually making reference to the Giannnis statement to KD that wasn't his. Giannis was also labelled as uni dimensional and a player whose offense wouldn't translate well in the playoffs. Fortunately for him some injuries happened and he finally showed his game in the playoffs full effort and won it all. If not, he'd be facing LeBron or KD type of pressure? I don't know if people would pressure him the same.

Also Jokic is probably gonna win 3 MVPs in a row. I remember LBJ being criticized a ton even after 09 when he shouldn't and played very well despite Cavs losign to Orlando. Have people actually put the same pressure on a 3 time MVP like Jokic to win it all?

I get the Nuggets don't have the best cast but... did the Cavs?

I actually think Draymond usually is a guy that talks well. Hope he gets a job in the media and doesn't have to defend any sides like it's obvious with guys like Perkins, Skip or Shannon.

[Peregrine01]

This sounds like some revisionist history. Giannis had a down-year by his standards that regular season. Bucks were 3rd in the East after finishing 1st in each of the two prior seasons. Voters don’t tend to award an MVP when that happens.

He also only played 61 games.

The only other time that happened was when Bill Walton won it after breaking his foot but the Blazers were 50-8 with him and flat out dominating the league.

No one is winning playing 61 games these days.

Embiid played 51 games or about 430 fewer minutes over the course of the season than Giannis. Still want to sit there and tell me he didn't deserve it over the guy who ultimately took 2nd because Philly won a whopping 3 more games? That's what we're going to say in that context but ignore it when it comes to Curry who's team limped into the play-in?

As far as revisionist history, "down by his standards" shouldn't discount you from the MVP conversation when that standard is still better than the other candidates. Again, this is the type of mental gymnastics I'm talking about to discount a guy from an MVP conversation, which hasn't necessarily been done with Jokic.

I'm confused. You use an argument for why Embiid and Curry didn't deserve it over Giannis to support why Jokic didn't deserve it over Giannis?

IIIRC, the 2021 MVP narrative for each of the players were as follows:
1) Embiid finally had a semi-healthy season and led Philly to the best record in the East. Still, his games missed was held against him.
2) Curry took a lottery team to the 8th seed and had a bonkers month of scoring to haul his team there. But the lower seed was held against him.
3) Jokic was consistently great throughout the whole year, missed the least games, and took his team to the 3rd seed despite losing Murray to a season-ending injury.
4) Giannis's case was dinged by the Bucks underperforming expectations, getting only the 3rd seed despite being mostly healthy, after being the 1st seed in each of the last two seasons.

[Peregrine01]

You guys get pulled offsides so easily. Draymond doesn't mean any of this, or maybe he does, but its irrelevant. He knows his playing career is winding down and its clear he wants to be a major media star for his 2nd act. Saying stuff like this is the path in today's world.

Nobody needs to get upset by anything Skip or SAS or Perk or Draymond say. It's a worked promo nothing more.

No better way to get things fired up than to spark race-bait ****. It's incredible how well identity politics works in the US.

If that's what he's after, pretty sad of him. Draymond had some interesting things to say earlier on in his new media campaign.

He can do both, though right? He's got to say the controversial stuff to grow the audience where he can then provide more nuanced takes. Because make no mistake Draymond know the game better than almost any other player in the league. He has a ton of substance to offer. But he's also savvy enough to know he's got to mix in some hot takes to get the aggregators to spread his name everywhere.

Can't blame Draymond. Have to blame all those people, many of whom are in these threads complaining about it ironically enough, who watch those crap "debate" shows, follow aggregators on social media and then rush to post/retweet it themselves. If there wasn't a huge audience for this garbage, Draymond wouldn't engage in it. If quality content sold, he'd stick exclusively to that.

But this is a MILF Island world.

Is it savvy? The clickbait media world is well saturated. I thought Draymond saw an opening for a market where people wanted to listen to real analysis (ala JJ Redick) with his new media shtick but looks like he's just doing the same thing that everyone else is doing.

[Optms]

You guys get pulled offsides so easily. Draymond doesn't mean any of this, or maybe he does, but its irrelevant. He knows his playing career is winding down and its clear he wants to be a major media star for his 2nd act. Saying stuff like this is the path in today's world.

Nobody needs to get upset by anything Skip or SAS or Perk or Draymond say. It's a worked promo nothing more.

Need to include JJ Redick to that list who for whatever reason hates anything pre-2000.

[VFX]

Just say you hate whites Draymond.

Is Giannis included in this if he doesn’t win a championship?

Who the **** is this even directed toward? It has to be Jokic. He’s the only true star European player that has been in the league long enough that hasn’t won anything with a good team.

I expect nothing less from Klutch clients.

[skones]

He also only played 61 games.

The only other time that happened was when Bill Walton won it after breaking his foot but the Blazers were 50-8 with him and flat out dominating the league.

No one is winning playing 61 games these days.

Embiid played 51 games or about 430 fewer minutes over the course of the season than Giannis. Still want to sit there and tell me he didn't deserve it over the guy who ultimately took 2nd because Philly won a whopping 3 more games? That's what we're going to say in that context but ignore it when it comes to Curry who's team limped into the play-in?

As far as revisionist history, "down by his standards" shouldn't discount you from the MVP conversation when that standard is still better than the other candidates. Again, this is the type of mental gymnastics I'm talking about to discount a guy from an MVP conversation, which hasn't necessarily been done with Jokic.

I'm confused. You use an argument for why Embiid and Curry didn't deserve it over Giannis to support why Jokic didn't deserve it over Giannis?

IIIRC, the 2021 MVP narrative for each of the players were as follows:
1) Embiid finally had a semi-healthy season and led Philly to the best record in the East. Still, his games missed was held against him.
2) Curry took a lottery team to the 8th seed and had a bonkers month of scoring to haul his team there. But the lower seed was held against him.
3) Jokic was consistently great throughout the whole year, missed the least games, and took his team to the 3rd seed despite losing Murray to a season-ending injury.
4) Giannis's case was dinged by the Bucks underperforming expectations, getting only the 3rd seed despite being mostly healthy, after being the 1st seed in each of the last two seasons.

There's a SUBSTANTIAL gap between three games at the top of the standings and the 9th overall seed, let's not act like context doesn't matter there. And again, how do you not see those narratives getting in the way/actually BEING the mental gymnastics used to discount him from an MVP race in 2021?

Embiid missed 30% of the season, but was still second in MVP voting. Again, Curry, 9 seed. I'm not going to argue the validity of Jokic's MVP, but Giannis being so far down the MVP ladder given the context of the players actually above him IS the argument here.

[Mickey8]

Draymond talks reckless just to get a reaction. Mans wants a media career so badly since he knows his playing days are almost over...

If Denver meet Golden State in the play off's this season, I hope Jokic will try to gouge Green's eye out on the purpose like he did to Jokic last season.

[life_saver]

God I hope Jokic punks this donkey in playoffs this year

[Trey24]

He is so so wrong on this. L If Jokic was in LA you think he would have less pressure on him than Lebron?

Also, everyone knocks Luka for not winning in the playoffs even though many would agree he has not had a proper supporting cast.

Its just a bad take.

[ItsDanger]

Giannis definitely got a lot of criticism prior to winning. Doncic is only in his 5th season. Jokic? Team has missed key players for past 2 seasons. Therefore, this speaks to something else that's bothering Green.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

He either means Jokic or white europeans. otherwise it makes zero sense with all the pressure Giannis got at a young age. Imagine if Giannis was 33 like Harden or 37 like paul and didn't win a ring, the media would be all over him. It was bad enough when he was 25 with only Midds as a side kick.

There's a lot of hate against Jokic from players/ex players where it is borderline(?) racist.....Draymond, Perkins, (and definitely a stretch) being picked second to last in the AS game as a starter.

[Optms]

He either means Jokic or white europeans. otherwise it makes zero sense with all the pressure Giannis got at a young age. Imagine if Giannis was 33 like Harden or 37 like paul and didn't win a ring, the media would be all over him. It was bad enough when he was 25 with only Midds as a side kick.

There's a lot of hate against Jokic from players/ex players where it is borderline(?) racist.....Draymond, Perkins, (and definitely a stretch) being picked second to last in the AS game as a starter.

What pressure?

The media gave Giannis a huge pass before the Bucks won the title. There was some criticism after the Raptors loss but the media was more concerned on claiming Kawhi was the next Michael Jordan than Giannis' failures.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

He either means Jokic or white europeans. otherwise it makes zero sense with all the pressure Giannis got at a young age. Imagine if Giannis was 33 like Harden or 37 like paul and didn't win a ring, the media would be all over him. It was bad enough when he was 25 with only Midds as a side kick.

There's a lot of hate against Jokic from players/ex players where it is borderline(?) racist.....Draymond, Perkins, (and definitely a stretch) being picked second to last in the AS game as a starter.

What pressure?
The media gave Giannis a huge pass before the Bucks won the title. There was some criticism after the Raptors loss but the media was more concerned on claiming Kawhi was the next Michael Jordan than Giannis' failures.

Watch on YouTube

There was definitely building pressure after the Miami loss. (I do think some of the media focus on where Giannis would sign with next). But there were definitely talking heads saying pressure was on Giannis AT AGE 25. If he lost again in round 2 in 2021 to the Nets, you don't think the media wouldn't be talking non-stop about how he failed again in the playoffs? Let alone if he was Harden's / CP's age.

[TinmanZBoy]

The thing is they never got the hypes that those American blue chips got in the first place… as good as Dirk and Jokic are, they were/are not considered title favorites year after year