Mavericks brain fart

[Nuntius]

No, the ref points to the right immediately after the ball goes out indicating Dubs possession.

He then blows his whistle and points to the left towards the bench indicating a Dallas timeout.

I can see how there was a misunderstanding, but ultimately the Dallas bench dropped the ball.

Third motion maybe, first is ball right, 2nd is timeout to the left, third is point to the left? I presume that the 2nd and third are one signal and that confused someone somewhere as it did me.

2 minutes in.

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So can someone help me here with the refs third signal? And the quick disucssion with the GSW player only?

Looney clearly thought that the ref overturned the call and gave the ball to the Mavs. That's why he complained. He wouldn't have complained otherwise.

[Johnny Bball]

Third motion maybe, first is ball right, 2nd is timeout to the left, third is point to the left? I presume that the 2nd and third are one signal and that confused someone somewhere as it did me.

2 minutes in.

Watch on YouTube

So can someone help me here with the refs third signal? And the quick disucssion with the GSW player only?

Looney clearly thought that the ref overturned the call and gave the ball to the Mavs. That's why he complained. He wouldn't have complained otherwise.

He clearly points Mavs ball right? That's not a part of the timeout hand signal, right? And the complaining is also what's confusing me.

[Johnny Bball]

Third motion maybe, first is ball right, 2nd is timeout to the left, third is point to the left? I presume that the 2nd and third are one signal and that confused someone somewhere as it did me.

2 minutes in.

Watch on YouTube

So can someone help me here with the refs third signal? And the quick disucssion with the GSW player only?

I’m not sure what 3rd signal you are talking about? Are you talking about his hands vaguely gesturing in the direction of the Mavericks in the face to face conversation with Looney?

Edit: Or are you talking about the point right, right palm up with whistle, then point to Mavs bench? I consider the right palm up and point to the Mavs bench as 1 gesture because it is all part of what refs do in a timeout call. I believe the hand up and whistle is a signal to the timekeepers to make sure the clock is stopped, and the point was to signal that the timeout is being issued to the Mavs.

Is the hands up, pointing at their direction not the entire hand gesture required? That's what's making me question what the point is after where GSW complain. I just don't get it.

[iserp]

To me it seems that Mavs players knew they were defending, saw the referee and the warriors players standing on the baseline with the ball, and naturally went to the other side as if the warriors were inbounding from their own side. If they thought they were attacking, a player would have been next to the referee with the ball.

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

[Myth]

So can someone help me here with the refs third signal? And the quick disucssion with the GSW player only?

I’m not sure what 3rd signal you are talking about? Are you talking about his hands vaguely gesturing in the direction of the Mavericks in the face to face conversation with Looney?

Edit: Or are you talking about the point right, right palm up with whistle, then point to Mavs bench? I consider the right palm up and point to the Mavs bench as 1 gesture because it is all part of what refs do in a timeout call. I believe the hand up and whistle is a signal to the timekeepers to make sure the clock is stopped, and the point was to signal that the timeout is being issued to the Mavs.

Is the hand up, pointing at their direction not the entire hand gesture required? That's what's making me question what the point is after where GSW complain. I just don't get it.

It sounds like you are mostly concerned about the refs hands in the conversation with Looney, correct? If so, the ref made the definitely gestures of Warriors ball, stop the clock, timeout Mavs. Looney mistook the point to the Mavs as the ref overturning the call and pointing left, and then spoke with the ref. During that conversation, the refs does not do any definitive gesture like they are making or changing a call, but more of a casual point in the Mavs direction while clarifying to Looney that it was a Mavs timeout. Unless you think the refs shouldn't be allowed to move their hands at all when talking to a player, this shouldn't be an issue.

[Johnny Bball]

I’m not sure what 3rd signal you are talking about? Are you talking about his hands vaguely gesturing in the direction of the Mavericks in the face to face conversation with Looney?

Edit: Or are you talking about the point right, right palm up with whistle, then point to Mavs bench? I consider the right palm up and point to the Mavs bench as 1 gesture because it is all part of what refs do in a timeout call. I believe the hand up and whistle is a signal to the timekeepers to make sure the clock is stopped, and the point was to signal that the timeout is being issued to the Mavs.

Is the hand up, pointing at their direction not the entire hand gesture required? That's what's making me question what the point is after where GSW complain. I just don't get it.

It sounds like you are mostly concerned about the refs hands in the conversation with Looney, correct? If so, they aren't doing some definitive gesture like they are making or changing a call, but more of a casual point in the Mavs direction while clarifying to Looney that it was a Mavs timeout. Unless you think the refs shouldn't be allowed to move their hands at all when talking to a player, this shouldn't be an issue.

There's nothing casual about that. You're making me wonder if we are watching the same thing.

The hand up is closest to a violation signal, and that means violation, mavs ball the way I see it. That's not even close to the timeout hand signal that I know (two hands, or hands pointing to the shoulders?).

[Nuntius]

So can someone help me here with the refs third signal? And the quick disucssion with the GSW player only?

Looney clearly thought that the ref overturned the call and gave the ball to the Mavs. That's why he complained. He wouldn't have complained otherwise.

He clearly points Mavs ball right? That's not a part of the timeout hand signal, right? And the complaining is also what's confusing me.

He clearly points to the Mavs, yes. Now, whether that pointing is supposed to mean "Mavs ball" or "timeout credited to the Mavs", I have no freaking idea. Looney assumed that it meant Mavs ball which is why he complained. Based on what we've heard after the game, the ref probably meant "timeout credited to the Mavs" and that's also probably what he was explaining to Looney after he complained.

The point is that it was definitely confusing and that the ref failed to communicate properly with the teams involved.

[Myth]

Is the hand up, pointing at their direction not the entire hand gesture required? That's what's making me question what the point is after where GSW complain. I just don't get it.

It sounds like you are mostly concerned about the refs hands in the conversation with Looney, correct? If so, they aren't doing some definitive gesture like they are making or changing a call, but more of a casual point in the Mavs direction while clarifying to Looney that it was a Mavs timeout. Unless you think the refs shouldn't be allowed to move their hands at all when talking to a player, this shouldn't be an issue.

There's nothing casual about that. You're making me wonder if we are watching the same thing.

We may be talking about something different, which is why I was trying to get clarification. I see 3 definitive movements. Hand right (out of bounds, Warriors ball), hand up (stop the time), point to Mavs (Timeout Mavs). Looney thought the point to the Mavs was the ref overturning the call because he thought it was just a hand to the left. The refs hands are then casually still in the direction of the Mavs bench when he is clarifying to Looney. So which of these hand gestures are confusing you, or is there another hand gesture that you are talking about? EDIT: Looking closer, the casual hand gesture I was referring to looks like he has both palms to Looney as if he is saying "Calm down" and then clarified the call he just made.

[xdrta+]

To me it seems that Mavs players knew they were defending, saw the referee and the warriors players standing on the baseline with the ball, and naturally went to the other side as if the warriors were inbounding from their own side. If they thought they were attacking, a player would have been next to the referee with the ball.

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

In other words, they forgot which direction they were going. That's the only thing that makes sense. They were going to play defense on the wrong end.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Not that Cuban can't afford it but this is a waste of 10K for a protest. It wasn't the best communication by the referees but the referee clearly called it warriors ball.

I get where the confusion lies when the referee pointed to the Mavericks bench but if Dallas thought it was their ball why was the entire team 50 ft away from the ball?

[Nate505]

To me it seems that Mavs players knew they were defending, saw the referee and the warriors players standing on the baseline with the ball, and naturally went to the other side as if the warriors were inbounding from their own side. If they thought they were attacking, a player would have been next to the referee with the ball.

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

So if this is what happened, welp, they are one of the dumbest teams in NBA history.

[xdrta+]

This will be the quickest dismissal of a protest in history.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

So it was supposed to be Mavs ball and the ref gave it to GS?

Think Mark saying Mavs were not informed it was GS ball

The only logical conclusion is that the Mavs thought it was the end of the quarter and switched sides.

Cuban seems to be arguing the Mavs forgot putting the ball in play requires someone inbounding the ball?

Except the only time they switch sides is after halftime and I'm pretty sure Dallas didn't think they were coming out of halftime

The entire team collectively forgot what side of the ball they're supposed to be defending.

[thisiskoz]

Think Mark saying Mavs were not informed it was GS ball

The only logical conclusion is that the Mavs thought it was the end of the quarter and switched sides.

Cuban seems to be arguing the Mavs forgot putting the ball in play requires someone inbounding the ball?

Except the only time they switch sides is after halftime and I'm pretty sure Dallas didn't think they were coming out of halftime

The entire team collectively forgot what side of the ball they're supposed to be defending.

I agree (assuming there is a question mark at the end of the last sentence). I don't see how the argument that the Mavs players thought they changed the direction of play after the timeout makes any sense.

To me, it looks like Jaden Hardy takes a few steps across midcourt, sees all the gsw players on the other half of the court still, which includes 3 players around the official, assumes play is still stopped and then backpedals back across half court to wait until at least one gsw player crosses half court to get into defensive position, since Jaden thinks it's Mavs ball, and that would be the normal sequence of events if it actually was Mavs ball.

Is there any rule stating a team has to stay on their half of the court during a stoppage in play, written or unwritten? That's really the only thing that would make sense to me as far as what the Mavs players were thinking.

[Dirk]

To me it seems that Mavs players knew they were defending, saw the referee and the warriors players standing on the baseline with the ball, and naturally went to the other side as if the warriors were inbounding from their own side. If they thought they were attacking, a player would have been next to the referee with the ball.

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

Maybe Looney was too, since he was running that way...

(for reference Looney was the guy directly involved in the call and even he was confused)

[California Gold]

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

Maybe Looney was too, since he was running that way...

(for reference Looney was the guy directly involved in the call and even he was confused)

I find that harder to believe that Looney didn't know. Kerr explained after the game that he was drawing up a play and he and everyone on their team was fully aware it was their ball. So... yeah. Try again.

It's clear here who's at fault. It's the Mavericks and they only have themselves to blame. Further, Cuban going on twitter to blatantly lie is pretty pathetic but not the first time from him.

[KnicksGadfly]

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Dang VC seems pretty polished on tv

[BostonCouchGM]

Why would they have been there? It's not "be there at 8h31" or else we inbound the ball. Plus, if the Mavs were confused and a ref was with them, why would they think that the game would start without them?

The refs probably have had many opportunities throughout the history of the NBA to give the ball to the inbounder before the other team was ready? It's not like both teams always get there at the same time.

The ref screwed up.

I believe they were ready ... on the wrong side of the court.They were expecting the warriors to inbound, cross the court, and attack on the half of the court they were.

So if this is what happened, welp, they are one of the dumbest teams in NBA history.

what could possibly be the their explanation as to why they thought it was their ball yet were all on the other end of the floor? THAT is how you know they're full of it and are just embarrassed because it IS embarrassing for everyone on the Mavs team including coaches.

[garrick]

Is it a brain fart? I think that one of the ref indicated that it was their ball. If it’s the case, the refs changed the game.

Who was supposed to get the ball? Did the refs give it to the wrong team or lied to one of the team?

The Mavs should have just refused to keep going until it gets cleared.

Refs called a timeout for the Mavs after indicating possession for the Warriors and the Mavs thought the timeout indication was a possession overturn. Was not the clearest sequence though.

I do think the refs made a mistake in that it wasn't particularly clear, one of many mistakes by the refs. Anthony Lamb got clearly and obviously shoved in the back on a new possession in front of multiple officials that led to a Mavs 3. The officials, yet again, had an awful night.

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Funny Cuban is protesting a game the Mavs had a 28-18 FT advantage and the Warriors did go inside.

The official nearest the action isn't actually looking at Lamb initially which is the main issue on this play. I posted in another thread that maybe the NBA needs to add an extra ref to view the play from behind as a lot of stuff is just missed due to various angles and the ref might nearest the play might not be looking where they should be looking at and miss a play.

[Myth]

Is the hand up, pointing at their direction not the entire hand gesture required? That's what's making me question what the point is after where GSW complain. I just don't get it.

It sounds like you are mostly concerned about the refs hands in the conversation with Looney, correct? If so, they aren't doing some definitive gesture like they are making or changing a call, but more of a casual point in the Mavs direction while clarifying to Looney that it was a Mavs timeout. Unless you think the refs shouldn't be allowed to move their hands at all when talking to a player, this shouldn't be an issue.

There's nothing casual about that. You're making me wonder if we are watching the same thing.

The hand up is closest to a violation signal, and that means violation, mavs ball the way I see it. That's not even close to the timeout hand signal that I know (two hands, or hands pointing to the shoulders?).

Just saw your edit to add the second paragraph. This has been the signal NBA refs use for timeouts for a long time. First video I found with a ref calling timeout within camera view:

https://youtu.be/XPMiEo512To

Whistle/hand up, then points to the Spurs. This is an every single game gesture. The shoulder touch was the 20-second timeouts the NBA did away with years ago.