Jokic Making a lot of folks look dumb

[Exp0sed]

Embiid had one of the highest usage rates in the leauge during the rs (i.e - padding stats vs inferior teams)
Jokic had a very low usage rate that made some folks question his "aggressivness" and all that bull

but guess what, up to this point in the playoffs - Jokic is leading all players with almost 33% in the playoffs and Embiid who had 37% (!!) during the rs is down to just 31% in the playoffs - letting Harden and co. carry him
that's a smart decision btw, the 76ers are better off with Harden carrying them..but lol @ ur MVP

don't think i've even seen a so called superstar taking on less in the playoffs compared to the rs

worked out for him tho, the stat padding, campaigning, lobbying and chasing accolades
he got rewarded for it so he def chose the right strategy

best offensive rating among starters these playoffs?
#1 - MPJ 121.7
#2 - Jokic 120.5
#3 - AG 120.4

Joel is at 115.7 btw

unless u think MPJ and AG are it, haha..Jokic is leading the playoffs thus far in offensive rating
i don't think anyone is surprised by that,right?

Assist %, meaning the % of team FG's that a player assists on:
#1 - Nikola Jokic 41.3% (!)
#2 - Harden 36.9%

defensive rebound %? - Jokic is 4th behind Looney, Love and AD

total reb %? Jokic is 3rd behind Looney and Paul Reed (whose a bench player obviously)

you get the picture

[eyeatoma]

Wow, Philly fans are exhausting. You got the MVP, you got the 1st Team All-NBA, what TF is your problem now?

The title of this thread is exhausting.

But you don't need to be in here.

Tell that to everyone who comes in to complain when there is an Embiid thread.

[ty 4191]

I thought the advanced stat heads said that PER was a useless metric?

Then don't even use advanced statistics.

Jokic:

Name the other players that have averaged 27.2/11.8/6.9, career, in the playoffs. Min 25 games played, let's say. Low threshold.

Name the other players that have averaged 30.6/13.1/9.5 for a playoff run. Say, even, 5 games minimum. Very low threshold.

[TheBullsDynasty]

Let's not kid ourselves. Jokic's status as the best player in the world is undeniable, given his exceptional performance and superiority over literally every single player. We all know that winning the MVP award does not always correlate with being the best player in the world - otherwise both MJ and LBJ would have 10 MVPs - highlighting the subjective nature of the award.

Jokic was the best player in the regular season, he is currently the best player in the playoffs. The only reason that he didn't win the MVP is due to voter fatigue stemming from his limited postseason accomplishments. Voters simply didn't want to give him his 3rd MVP in a row - which hasn't happened since Bird - without winning a championship first, which I have no problem with, but let's not act like he isn't currently the best player in the world.

[Exp0sed]

Let's not kid ourselves. Jokic's status as the best player in the world is undeniable, given his exceptional performance and superiority over literally every single player. We all know that winning the MVP award does not always correlate with being the best player in the world - otherwise both MJ and LBJ would have 10 MVPs - highlighting the subjective nature of the award.

Jokic was the best player in the regular season, he is currently the best player in the playoffs. The only reason that he didn't win the MVP is due to voter fatigue stemming from his limited postseason accomplishments. Voters simply didn't want to give him his 3rd MVP in a row - which hasn't happened since Bird - without winning a championship first, which I have no problem with, but let's not act like he isn't currently the best player in the world.

end thread \

[rapstarter]

You were very vocal about Murray playing well in one game vs Minnesota.

Murray did carry in that game. Jokic to his credit has been exceptional this round, and has carried the team. Good for him. Doesn't change what Murray did in the 1st round and in that specific game. Also doesn't change that Murray had a better playoffs in the bubble than Jokic did. That being said, I think the Nuggets will make the WCF at minimum, and have a good shot at the finals. Hopefully my Sixers will face them, so we can settle this ugly debate once and for all.

lol, ur obssession has turned into outright trolling imo
if Murray "carried" Jokic in one game (laughable but ok)- then what would u call Harden and Maxey's performances this postseason?

lmfao

Harden has been the 76ers best player in this postseason run thus far
and he was their best player pretty often during the rs as well, with and without Embiid in the lineup

I doubt well see a 76ers\Nuggets final but u can't really think that's how it works - basketball is a team game
Was isiah better than Jordan when the bulls lost twice to the bad boys?

Harden deserved an all-NBA team this season
can u imagine Jokic with Harden, Maxey, Tucker, Harris, Melton, Mcdaniels, Reed etc? lol

heck, Jokic would probably do more\better with Maxey alone than he does with Murray, even without playing alongside MVP Harden

btw, Harden deserved his lone MVP, unlike your hero

Yeah, I always find it amusing when fans of what are basically superteams (compared to the current Nuggets) talk up the Bubble Murray as if he's shown any sign of being able to maintain that form. It could be 2030, and people will still point to that one month.

[bebopdeluxe]

So why didn't the superior player get the MVP, if he had the superior season?

You know what? I'm too tired of the MVP conversation to further take part in it. I'm out of that.

Fair enough, but don't expect people to not respond when you say the "world " knows who the superior player is, only for it to be a lopsided MVP vote.

And my guess is many of those MVP voters - while acknowledging all of Jokic's amazing offensive talents - are also acknowledging what the entire basketball world is seeing in these playoffs, which is that Embiid is a true two-way player, and one of the best defensive players in the game. Voters know this. Fellow players - who have to try to score the ball on him - know this (this is probably why Embiid got twice as many votes as Jokic in the poll The Athletic took). And while fans of Jokic try to point to their "basket of acronyms" that would suggest that Jokic is a superior defensive player, numbers such as the stat I posted earlier just confirm what our eyes tell us when we watch the two players - Embiid impacts a game defensively in a way that Jokic simply cannot.

[bebopdeluxe]

Posted this in other threads but Embiid defensive impact compared to Jokic's this playoffs is gargantuan.

Read on Twitter

Of course THIS.

Response from fans of Jokic to statistics like this?

Crickets.

[bebopdeluxe]

Wow, Philly fans are exhausting. You got the MVP, you got the 1st Team All-NBA, what TF is your problem now?

The title of this thread is exhausting.

Yet ANOTHER post that Jokic fans will completely ignore.

LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD

Why do Jokic stans CONSTANTLY start threads like this? It IS exhausting.

[NetsJets]

Wow, Philly fans are exhausting. You got the MVP, you got the 1st Team All-NBA, what TF is your problem now?

The title of this thread is exhausting.

Yet ANOTHER post that Jokic fans will completely ignore.

LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD

Why do Jokic stans CONSTANTLY start threads like this? It IS exhausting.

Insecurities

[moderndarwin]

He’s gonna have to beat Steph to be taken seriously

[eyeatoma]

Posted this in other threads but Embiid defensive impact compared to Jokic's this playoffs is gargantuan.

Read on Twitter

Of course THIS.

Response from fans of Jokic to statistics like this?

Crickets.

They have no response, apart from, repeating themselves. Or... Yeaaah, but Jokic's offense is still sooo much better lol.

[nikster]

Posted this in other threads but Embiid defensive impact compared to Jokic's this playoffs is gargantuan.

Read on Twitter

Of course THIS.

Response from fans of Jokic to statistics like this?

Crickets.

Not hard to see what the argument is. Yes Embiid is better defensively, the argument would be Jokic offenisve impact outweighs that.

That DFG% difference amounts to about 5 points a game. Its impressive. But In the 2nd round Jokic is averaging 7 more points on +8 TS%, and generates 17.5 more points off assists

[Optms]

Your hatred is so sad and pathetic. There are players I strongly dislike, like Embiid, but not even I am foolish enough to call him unimpressive.

He is trolling.

Probably. Calling any player in the top ten 'unimpressive' just makes you seem like you're trying hard to project a tough guy image

Him and the guy with the David Robinson icon should kiss.

He's a two time MVP. So he's doing exactly what we projected him to based off his resume and past accomplishments. But at this point he's been doing this long enough that its become fodder to me unless he gets to the Finals. I expect more from him and the first seed Nuggets. Finals or bust.

I guess anything less than butt kissing on your boys are now deemed "trolling". I held the same opinion for Giannis for years before he won his first title. And now I view him in proper context.

[og15]

Posted this in other threads but Embiid defensive impact compared to Jokic's this playoffs is gargantuan.

Read on Twitter

Of course THIS.

Response from fans of Jokic to statistics like this?

Crickets.

Not hard to see what the argument is. Yes Embiid is better defensively, the argument would be Jokic offenisve impact outweighs that.

That DFG% difference amounts to about 5 points a game. Its impressive. But In the 2nd round Jokic is averaging 7 more points on +8 TS%, and generates 17.5 more points off assists

5 points a game from just ones defensive FGA impact is pretty serious though, since that's not taking into account points prevented through other means (dreb, deterring attempts, deflections, charges, etc, etc). I wouldn't necessarily simply dismiss that if the conclusion that around 5 ppg is being taken away from the opponent by a guy contesting them, that's a lot if we simplify it to that.

[Dmagic]

jokic has the first healthy team since the bubble..yall are trippin.. he was without his best playoff star and sidekick fools.. if he doesn't win this year I can understand the negative conjecture but in my eyes. I give him one more year before there is any pressure for a ring. but if he does it to end the warriors dynasty. or lebrons ring hopes. it will be especially impressive. but I dont expect the nuggets to lose. I expect them to stay healthy and win easily unless the lakers are as good as I fear

[QingJames]

You know what? I'm too tired of the MVP conversation to further take part in it. I'm out of that.

Fair enough, but don't expect people to not respond when you say the "world " knows who the superior player is, only for it to be a lopsided MVP vote.

And my guess is many of those MVP voters - while acknowledging all of Jokic's amazing offensive talents - are also acknowledging what the entire basketball world is seeing in these playoffs, which is that Embiid is a true two-way player, and one of the best defensive players in the game. Voters know this. Fellow players - who have to try to score the ball on him - know this (this is probably why Embiid got twice as many votes as Jokic in the poll The Athletic took). And while fans of Jokic try to point to their "basket of acronyms" that would suggest that Jokic is a superior defensive player, numbers such as the stat I posted earlier just confirm what our eyes tell us when we watch the two players - Embiid impacts a game defensively in a way that Jokic simply cannot.

If Embiid is such a transcendent defensive player why has his team been worse on defense than the Nuggets this postseason?

[bebopdeluxe]

Of course THIS.

Response from fans of Jokic to statistics like this?

Crickets.

Not hard to see what the argument is. Yes Embiid is better defensively, the argument would be Jokic offenisve impact outweighs that.

That DFG% difference amounts to about 5 points a game. Its impressive. But In the 2nd round Jokic is averaging 7 more points on +8 TS%, and generates 17.5 more points off assists

5 points a game from just ones defensive FGA impact is pretty serious though, since that's not taking into account points prevented through other means (dreb, deterring attempts, deflections, charges, etc, etc). I wouldn't necessarily simply dismiss that if the conclusion that around 5 ppg is being taken away from the opponent by a guy contesting them, that's a lot if we simplify it to that.

Good post. It is not just the raw numbers - which show a MASSIVE difference between Embiid's defense at the rim and Jokic. It is the impact that Embiid's defense has on the opposing team's entire approach to their offense. Teams almost HAVE to shoot it well from 3 to win - and take a ton of shots. The Celtics losses in this series have been either from shooting poorly from the perimeter or - in the case of Game 1 - not taking enough shots from 3...although this is understandable, since Embiid did not play in Game 1. In a sense, the Celtics' low number of 3-point attempts in Game 1 only serves to prove the point that I am making. Teams/players straight AVOID the rim when Embiid is on the floor.

Having to live or die by making shots from the perimeter is a tough way to win 16 games in May/June. The Warriors have a bunch of rings because they have had some of the greatest perimeter shooters in NBA history on their teams (Steph, KD, Klay). THAT is the formula to beat the Sixers if Embiid's defense shuts off the lane. You don't even try to take those shots - many of which get you to the free throw line. Teams are not afraid to take the ball to the rim against the Nuggets, because Jokic is nowhere near the rim defender that Embiid is. Another issue that comes into play is Embiid can go out to the perimeter on switches, defend in space, but then have the ability to get back to the rim to contest. Jokic simply cannot do this as effectively (and if Jokic stans argue otherwise, then there is absolutely no hope of having a rational discussion about this).

[bebopdeluxe]

Fair enough, but don't expect people to not respond when you say the "world " knows who the superior player is, only for it to be a lopsided MVP vote.

And my guess is many of those MVP voters - while acknowledging all of Jokic's amazing offensive talents - are also acknowledging what the entire basketball world is seeing in these playoffs, which is that Embiid is a true two-way player, and one of the best defensive players in the game. Voters know this. Fellow players - who have to try to score the ball on him - know this (this is probably why Embiid got twice as many votes as Jokic in the poll The Athletic took). And while fans of Jokic try to point to their "basket of acronyms" that would suggest that Jokic is a superior defensive player, numbers such as the stat I posted earlier just confirm what our eyes tell us when we watch the two players - Embiid impacts a game defensively in a way that Jokic simply cannot.

If Embiid is such a transcendent defensive player why has his team been worse on defense than the Nuggets this postseason?

Really? This is your response? You take the ACTUAL STATISTICS of shots at the rim - where it is basically Embiid's world - and throw them out, and come back with generic 30,000-foot numbers to argue your position?

Really?

Maybe the numbers are different because Maxey gets picked on defensively. Maybe the numbers are different because the Sixers bench players (like Niang) are crappy defenders. There are literally a ZILLION reasons why the Sixers defense has not been good at times that have NOTHING TO DO WITH EMBIID.

I am out. Have fun, guys.

[AleksandarN]

He is trolling.

Probably. Calling any player in the top ten 'unimpressive' just makes you seem like you're trying hard to project a tough guy image

Him and the guy with the David Robinson icon should kiss.

He's a two time MVP. So he's doing exactly what we projected him to based off his resume and past accomplishments. But at this point he's been doing this long enough that its become fodder to me unless he gets to the Finals. I expect more from him and the first seed Nuggets. Finals or bust.

I guess anything less than butt kissing on your boys are now deemed "trolling". I held the same opinion for Giannis for years before he won his first title. And now I view him in proper context.

You try so hard it is cute. Lol