Is Sam Presti overrated?

[Drakeem]

Meh, hes a more likeable Ainge tbh. No point in collecting bullets if u dont know when and how to use the weapon

I hate this narrative for Ainge. He DID use them. He got Kyrie and Hayward at a time when that Celtics team was looking like a super team. No one could have predicted that the iron man that Hayward was would turn into what he is now after getting injured a minute into his first game, and Kyrie being the personality that he is off of a Cavs ring.

[lethalizer]

So one of the biggest misconceptions here is that the Harden trade wasn't really Sam's fault. You can certainly fault him for the return he got, which is fair, but the ownership was pretty clear back then they didn't want to go into the tax.

Since then, George Kaiser got into the ownership group and Thunder paid the luxury tax a bunch of times, and I have no doubt they'll do so again when the time comes.

Other than that, like most GMs he had some lows but his highs have been pretty good, which makes me happy.

Is he overrated? I don't think so. I think being a good GM means you always give some hope towards your fanbase. Thunder either has been a playoff team or has had a young promising team during their entire existence. Comparably to other teams, that's a pretty big plus in my opinion.

What will he do with this core? I don't know, but I know the last time his pick situation didn't look remotely like this, and I'm assuming he'll have a good chance of keeping the actual 3 players of the core this time, so I'm a lot more hopeful.

In the end, like every other team, we'll need a bit of luck at one point if we want to get to the finals again/win a chip. But even being put in that position this early makes me feel happy, that much I can say.

[Los_29]

He is overrated. He’s made some unbelievably bad decisions that set that franchise back years. He also inexcusably rolled with Westbrook for far too long before deciding to break up that team. He also went through a long stretch where he drafted quite poorly.

The situation that he’s in now is due to Kawhi deciding to team up with Paul George. If he doesn’t do that then OKC doesn’t get Shai and that team would still be mediocre.

With that said, he’s not a bad GM.

I referenced SGA earlier too. You’re almost always lucky to be a true contender, and he has certainly been the beneficiary of his own good moves, strong draft selections, but also - huge luck. No SGA, and OKC is just another terrible young team that big stars would balk at going to.

If Portland wasn’t idiotic and actually learned from the Bowie lesson. As you called out, if Kawhi wanted Harden, or some different star back then. Those butterfly effects change everything.

He put himself in the position to make the trade with a number of brilliant moves. He also deserves credit for actually getting SGA in that trade.

"What if he didn't do the things he actually did?"

Him getting SGA was a product of Kawhi deciding to team up with George though. The Clippers didn’t care who they gave up because they’d be getting Kawhi and George.

OKC would be looking quite different if they didn’t have a top 5 player in SGA on their team. Who have they drafted in the last 4 years that looks like someone who can carry a franchise?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I referenced SGA earlier too. You’re almost always lucky to be a true contender, and he has certainly been the beneficiary of his own good moves, strong draft selections, but also - huge luck. No SGA, and OKC is just another terrible young team that big stars would balk at going to.

If Portland wasn’t idiotic and actually learned from the Bowie lesson. As you called out, if Kawhi wanted Harden, or some different star back then. Those butterfly effects change everything.

He put himself in the position to make the trade with a number of brilliant moves. He also deserves credit for actually getting SGA in that trade.

"What if he didn't do the things he actually did?"

Him getting SGA was a product of Kawhi deciding to team up with George though. The Clippers didn’t care who they gave up because they’d be getting Kawhi and George.

OKC would be looking quite different if they didn’t have a top 5 player in SGA on their team. Who have they drafted in the last 4 years that looks like someone who can carry a franchise?

Denver drafting Jokic was also a product of all the rest of the league not picking him sooner.
Dallas trading for Luka was a product of Phoenix, Sacramento and Atlanta preferring other players.
What's the point of that comment? The conditions to grab a very top talent are always unique and never ever fully on the executive's control. You need luck but then the important thing is not to waste such luck.
And OKC would be in a nice situation even without Shai, just to prove how well Presti planned this rebuilding.

[Ssj16]

For RealGM posters like jmac3, I'm very curious to who you think is a top tier nba GM. You keep coming up with reasons for why Presti "is garbage", while totally ignoring his wins.

As other posters mention, no GM is perfect, so in curious to who the benchmark of excellence is.

Nobody is saying he is garbage, but sure change the narrative lol

This isn't a narrative change, to me it's very simple. If Presti is overrated, this means Posters who agree with this premise, should have a laundry list of GMs in today's NBA who are much better than Presti.

You put him as the 7ish best GM, so who are the GMs who are so much better than Presti?

[hardenASG13]

OKC loses Durant for nothing and here they are again, right back on the cusp. I doubt we’re talking about Toronto in a few years.

This should be a massive, massive ding on his record.

If SGA doesn’t become insanely better than just about everyone ever imagined, this thread doesn’t exist because OKC’s just another young, losing team with potential.

He has made a lot of brilliant moves, and he has also been incredibly lucky.

How is that a massive ding. Do you think he should have traded him? When? He certainly couldn't stop him from leaving in FA.

It's a massive ding because KD left due to roster construction. He said as much by accident via his Twitter burner. Presti insisted on rosters with (extreme) non shooters and lumbering bigs around KD/Westbrook for far too long. He wasn't going to keep committing to that when he could look around the league and see teams with depth and shooting that he could join. I wish he hadn't joined Golden state, but don't blame him for leaving either. He and Westbrook had to work way too hard to carry that offense. Non shooters in the corners and a big always crowding the block made no sense, yet they seemed committed to that. It was as laughable then as it would be now toward the end, yet presti and OKC didn't see it until it was too late.

[Ayt]

I referenced SGA earlier too. You’re almost always lucky to be a true contender, and he has certainly been the beneficiary of his own good moves, strong draft selections, but also - huge luck. No SGA, and OKC is just another terrible young team that big stars would balk at going to.

If Portland wasn’t idiotic and actually learned from the Bowie lesson. As you called out, if Kawhi wanted Harden, or some different star back then. Those butterfly effects change everything.

He put himself in the position to make the trade with a number of brilliant moves. He also deserves credit for actually getting SGA in that trade.

"What if he didn't do the things he actually did?"

Him getting SGA was a product of Kawhi deciding to team up with George though. The Clippers didn’t care who they gave up because they’d be getting Kawhi and George.

OKC would be looking quite different if they didn’t have a top 5 player in SGA on their team. Who have they drafted in the last 4 years that looks like someone who can carry a franchise?

"I'm going to give Presti no credit for trading for SGA then downgrade him for that."

Brilliant analysis.

He got SGA in that trade. Deal with it.

[JMAC3]

You having him top 6-7 and others having him #1 doesn't mean he's overrated. That means people have different criteria.

If OKC wins in a title in 2 years, does that suddenly catapult him to #1 for you?

This is in fact the definition of overrated lol. If I have Tim Duncan as the GOAT (I don't, just an example relax.) and most have him 6th -8th, the term most would use is that I am OVERRATING Tim Duncan.

I don't have to think Presit is the 27th best GM for him to be overrated lol

[Jabroni Lames]

Like every good GM, Presti has been more lucky than good. For example.... if the Clippers had drafted Marvin Bagley, then he probably still trades PG for Bagley, Gallo & a boatload of picks.

So the PG to Clippers trade today would've netted: Marvin Bagley, Tre Mann & Jalen Williams. Meh. Without SGA, everybody would be calling for Presti's head today.

I mean, there have been some really questionable Presti moves in recent years.... trading back the FRP to Miami, which became Jaime Jacquez Jr. And trading the FRP which became Alperen Sengun (who should've been an all-star this year).

[Ayt]

You having him top 6-7 and others having him #1 doesn't mean he's overrated. That means people have different criteria.

If OKC wins in a title in 2 years, does that suddenly catapult him to #1 for you?

This is in fact the definition of overrated lol. If I have Tim Duncan as the GOAT (I don't, just an example relax.) and most have him 6th -8th, the term most would use is that I am OVERRATING Tim Duncan.

I don't have to think Presit is the 27th best GM for him to be overrated lol

There is a gigantic difference when talking about all time ratings and current ratings. If you said you ranked Presti #6 all time as a GM and others had him ranked #1 all time (I can't imagine anyone actually does), there wouldn't be much of a reason to argue with each other.

You've already stated you think you'd rate him 6-7 amongst current GM's. Who is giving you a hard time about that rating?

[Ssj16]

You having him top 6-7 and others having him #1 doesn't mean he's overrated. That means people have different criteria.

If OKC wins in a title in 2 years, does that suddenly catapult him to #1 for you?

This is in fact the definition of overrated lol. If I have Tim Duncan as the GOAT (I don't, just an example relax.) and most have him 6th -8th, the term most would use is that I am OVERRATING Tim Duncan.

I don't have to think Presit is the 27th best GM for him to be overrated lol

There is a gigantic difference when talking about all time ratings and current ratings. If you said you ranked Presti #6 all time as a GM and others had him ranked #1 all time (I can't imagine anyone actually does), there wouldn't be much of a reason to argue with each other.

You've already stated you think you'd rate him 6-7 amongst current GM's. Who is giving you a hard time about that rating?

For whatever reason Jmac3 seems shy on listing GMs that are currently better than Presti yet seems quick to criticize him for his faults. I would think if there are 6 gms that are vastly better than Presti, it would be easy to speak to why.

[Lockdown504090]

So one of the biggest misconceptions here is that the Harden trade wasn't really Sam's fault. You can certainly fault him for the return he got, which is fair, but the ownership was pretty clear back then they didn't want to go into the tax.

Since then, George Kaiser got into the ownership group and Thunder paid the luxury tax a bunch of times, and I have no doubt they'll do so again when the time comes.

Other than that, like most GMs he had some lows but his highs have been pretty good, which makes me happy.

Is he overrated? I don't think so. I think being a good GM means you always give some hope towards your fanbase. Thunder either has been a playoff team or has had a young promising team during their entire existence. Comparably to other teams, that's a pretty big plus in my opinion.

What will he do with this core? I don't know, but I know the last time his pick situation didn't look remotely like this, and I'm assuming he'll have a good chance of keeping the actual 3 players of the core this time, so I'm a lot more hopeful.

In the end, like every other team, we'll need a bit of luck at one point if we want to get to the finals again/win a chip. But even being put in that position this early makes me feel happy, that much I can say.

always strange when folks thing gms have a problem with owners paying luxury tax bills. They had their core, the restraint was obviously from up top.

[JMAC3]

This is in fact the definition of overrated lol. If I have Tim Duncan as the GOAT (I don't, just an example relax.) and most have him 6th -8th, the term most would use is that I am OVERRATING Tim Duncan.

I don't have to think Presit is the 27th best GM for him to be overrated lol

There is a gigantic difference when talking about all time ratings and current ratings. If you said you ranked Presti #6 all time as a GM and others had him ranked #1 all time (I can't imagine anyone actually does), there wouldn't be much of a reason to argue with each other.

You've already stated you think you'd rate him 6-7 amongst current GM's. Who is giving you a hard time about that rating?

For whatever reason Jmac3 seems shy on listing GMs that are currently better than Presti yet seems quick to criticize him for his faults. I would think if there are 6 gms that are vastly better than Presti, it would be easy to speak to why.

I made the case for several, a few posts ago. It has been quoted multiple times. Have you read through the thread or nah?

Bob Meyers built a dynasty from a team he mostly drafted.

Brad Stevens for instance has acquired Derrick White, Brogdon, Porzingis, Holiday, Tillman and Celtics have been very good.

Ainge obviously put together that Celtics team initially, then immediately got hauls for Gobert and Mitchell.

RC Buford won 4-5 titles as GM in Spurs and consistently put good teams on the floor in a small market.

David Griffin won a title in Cleveland and since moved to NOP and put together a good young team with a bunch of future picks.

Other younger guys who have a say in convo shortly might be Booth, Altman

[Lockdown504090]

I actually think sam is underrated.
https://sports.yahoo.com/best-ran-organization-carmelo-anthony-170823841.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt's%20the%20best%2Dran%20organization,wasn't%20doing%20our%20best.

“It’s the best-ran organization when it comes to understanding the needs of players and understanding how to communicate with players and hold players accountable,” Anthony said. “…(Sam Presti) worked with us but he gave us our marks. If we didn’t hit those marks, we knew we wasn’t doing our best. If we didn’t hit the marks, Billy Donovan wasn’t coming in there talking to us, it was Sam Presti… He has no ill intentions in any of this. He wants what’s best for the player and he really cares about what goes on.”

If melo has this to say about a guy who asked him to change the way he eats, plays, trains and considers himself in the league, this is really impressive that he could still maintain this rapport while telling one of the best and most successful chuckers of all time to stop chucking. Mike dantoni essentially did the same and that guy is ex communicated from new york. I actually dont know why someone just doesnt offer him sub supermax money to poach him. he does everything you could want from a guy except shoot the ball himself.

[Slimjimzv]

Drafted Westbrook as an unpopular pick. Drafted Harden as an unpopular pick. Drafted Ibaka as a late first. Drafted Stephen Adams in a terrible draft at #12. Drafted Sabonis. Drafted Chet. Drafted JDub. Drafted Cason. Undrafted pick up of Lu Dort. Traded for PG when everyone thought it was a bad idea because he wouldn't re-sign, then got him to re-sign. Picked up Isiah Joe off waivers. Hired Mark Daignault. Traded for SGA and a pile of draft picks. What the hell do you people want?

[Ssj16]

There is a gigantic difference when talking about all time ratings and current ratings. If you said you ranked Presti #6 all time as a GM and others had him ranked #1 all time (I can't imagine anyone actually does), there wouldn't be much of a reason to argue with each other.

You've already stated you think you'd rate him 6-7 amongst current GM's. Who is giving you a hard time about that rating?

For whatever reason Jmac3 seems shy on listing GMs that are currently better than Presti yet seems quick to criticize him for his faults. I would think if there are 6 gms that are vastly better than Presti, it would be easy to speak to why.

I made the case for several, a few posts ago. It has been quoted multiple times. Have you read through the thread or nah?

Bob Meyers built a dynasty from a team he mostly drafted.

Brad Stevens for instance has acquired Derrick White, Brogdon, Porzingis, Holiday, Tillman and Celtics have been very good.

Ainge obviously put together that Celtics team initially, then immediately got hauls for Gobert and Mitchell.

RC Buford won 4-5 titles as GM in Spurs and consistently put good teams on the floor in a small market.

David Griffin won a title in Cleveland and since moved to NOP and put together a good young team with a bunch of future picks.

Other younger guys who have a say in convo shortly might be Booth, Altman

I apologize because I've missed this. Of course this is very subjective, but when I look at all of those GMs you've mentioned they all had their flaws that are pretty equivalent to mistakes that Presti has made.

Brad Stevens hasn't won a chip as yet and some question the coach that Boston currently has. He also has yet to show he can consistently be top tier for a decade.

Spurs have been pretty past for the past decade and even with drafting Wemby, they haven't put a solid team together this year. Tho in his prime, RC Bufford was a beast.

Ainge hasn't won anything since 2008 and has had decent Boston and Utah teams but not sure they were better than OKC overall in that time frame.

David Griffin made some blunders in New Orleans with JVG and the team has under performed in its past. And he had Lebron on the Cavs, so if we're being honest, he doesn't get full credit there for various reasons.

Bob Meyers has a fairly good track record though before the end of his tenure, they did not hit on the number 2 pick and he left the team because he did not want to make the difficult decision of breaking up the aging core.

Booth won a championship and has a solid track record but we need to wait and see.

Altman inherited a Lebron team and hasn't been to the conference finals since LBJ left. Also has yet to show if he can be consistent for a decade.

I hate to disparage these other GMs because I think they are all talented in their own right but it's hard for me to say that 2 of the GMs on this list are vastly greater than Presti when you consider Presti did everything from the ground up, in a small market in the loaded west for 14 years and has been fairly consistent.

[ShootersShoot]

OKC has also been the luckiest team with injury luck this year as well.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured-reserve/cumulative-team/

I think they are good, but also think the playoffs will be a something they will struggle with if they play healthy veteran teams especially if they have size.

Its almost like young teams need to go through playoff losses to become a better team..hmm what a concept

Which is exactly why you dont necessarily go all in when your core is comprised of guys 25 or under..epecially when 2/3 of the core players are in their first and second years. Theres time to build around them.

SGA is 3 years older than KD when he made his 1st NBA Finals along with 22 years old Russ and 21 years old Harden. They're in OKC and anytime you have a shot to be one of the top contenders in the league you should do it. It's not like superstars tend to stay in Oklahoma for their entire career. SGA can sign his supermax extensioin in 2026 and eligible to demand a trade in 2027 offseason. That's like a 3-year window and all they got to improve their team this playoffs is washed Hayward.

I mean, if the move makes sense, then sure...Presti was a young guy in his first few years as a GM. I'm sure he's learned a few things since then as well.

[MMyhre]

So the Thunder are still getting dumpstered on the glass, too small, what the heck was the point of getting uber-washed Hayward and Biyombo??? **** in-season trade, what the ****? Literally now they`re just taking up minutes for younger players with potential and they didn`t fix the size issue, and Hayward looks like a dead man walking.

No chance in hell the Thunder make any noise in the postseason now, been exposed by size so ridiculously hard by Duren, Davis, Nurkic (31 rebounds and THIRTEEN offensive at that), Wemby, Gobert ++ heck put in Bargnani and he will look like prime Shaq in the paint vs OKC. And this is in the regular season... imagine when the game slows down, and defense and intensity ups in the postseason, man its so obvious now that the Thunder are pretenders, and Presti instead helps Dallas size up with TWO bigs that they desperately would benefit from having available vs bigger teams. Pathetic GM work imo.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1b6xadb/highlight_anthony_davis_continues_to_be_too_big/

AD playing against toddlers. Peak Dennis Rodman would set the single game rebound record vs OKC. Heck put me in with my above average wingspan imma catch 10+ rebs too.

[ChipotleWest]

Not only has he built OKC into contenders twice now, he drafted Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker helping Spurs have a dynasty. So hell no he isn't overrated.

[doogie_hauser]

The correct answer is Daryl Morey.

Even if Presti can't jag a superstar with his trove of draft picks, does incredibly well with picks he has (Cason Wallace the latest one)