Who's the most overrated player in the NBA?

[dhsilv2]

It’s all over this board. Even GOAT peak makes him overrated considering his lack of “peak” defensive impact at the C position

Nowhere have I seen people say Jokic for his CAREER is in the GOAT discussion. I've seen people say he can get there. A very different statement.

As for the defense stuff...all it takes is for one to believe Jokic's overall total peak is among the best ever. Just like Russell has a case to be in that discussion on his defense, so too does Jokic with his offense. One could easily argue both those guys were so much better than number 2 at their side of the ball it offsets being average to good on the other.

Russell impacted the game on offense as a rebounder and as a defender. He is not consider a GOAT candidate simply based on his defense. He isn’t Ben Wallace.

Russell's offensive imapct is comparable to Jokic. Jokic is NOT a negative defender.

[tsherkin]

Nowhere have I seen people say Jokic for his CAREER is in the GOAT discussion. I've seen people say he can get there. A very different statement.

As for the defense stuff...all it takes is for one to believe Jokic's overall total peak is among the best ever. Just like Russell has a case to be in that discussion on his defense, so too does Jokic with his offense. One could easily argue both those guys were so much better than number 2 at their side of the ball it offsets being average to good on the other.

Russell impacted the game on offense as a rebounder and as a defender. He is not consider a GOAT candidate simply based on his defense. He isn’t Ben Wallace.

Russell's offensive imapct is comparable to Jokic. Jokic is NOT a negative defender.

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

[dhsilv2]

Russell impacted the game on offense as a rebounder and as a defender. He is not consider a GOAT candidate simply based on his defense. He isn’t Ben Wallace.

Russell's offensive imapct is comparable to Jokic. Jokic is NOT a negative defender.

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

[Bornstellar]

At this moment in time, I think it's probably Anthony Edwards.

That is not to say he is not a great player and an up and coming superstar, but man, the NBA media was slobbering all over this dude last season proclaiming him the next Jordan and trying to anoint him the next great American superstar when he clearly has a ways to go before getting there as evidenced by his performance in the last series and a half in the playoffs. He's also pretty arrogant, I mean how smug do you have to be to be on a team with Steph Curry, LeBron James, and Kevin Durant, while you're coming off the bench, and proclaim that you're the #1 option?

After him it's probably Embiid but he is routinely ripped here and in the media for constantly flaming out in the playoffs

[DimesandKnicks]

Russell's offensive imapct is comparable to Jokic. Jokic is NOT a negative defender.

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

I’m not the authority on Russell as I’ve never watched him play but I feel comfortable in saying that Bill was a far better offensive player than Jokic is a defender

[dhsilv2]

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

I’m not the authority on Russell as I’ve never watched him play but I feel comfortable in saying that Bill was a far better offensive player than Jokic is a defender

It seems we strongly disagree on Jokic's defensive impact then.

[tsherkin]

Russell's offensive imapct is comparable to Jokic. Jokic is NOT a negative defender.

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

Yeah, I figured it was something like that, just wanted some clarification for the thread overall. Cheers for that.

[magee]

Rudy Gobert and it's not even close.

[Maxthirty]

Did you want to change that around? Russell's offensive impact is comparable to... Jokic's what? His defense? Certainly not Jokic's offensive impact.

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

I’m not the authority on Russell as I’ve never watched him play but I feel comfortable in saying that Bill was a far better offensive player than Jokic is a defender

Why are you even commenting if you’ve never watched Russell play? If anything, Jokic’s defense is ahead of Russell’s offense.

[KyRo23]

At this moment in time, I think it's probably Anthony Edwards.

That is not to say he is not a great player and an up and coming superstar, but man, the NBA media was slobbering all over this dude last season proclaiming him the next Jordan and trying to anoint him the next great American superstar when he clearly has a ways to go before getting there as evidenced by his performance in the last series and a half in the playoffs. He's also pretty arrogant, I mean how smug do you have to be to be on a team with Steph Curry, LeBron James, and Kevin Durant, while you're coming off the bench, and proclaim that you're the #1 option?

After him it's probably Embiid but he is routinely ripped here and in the media for constantly flaming out in the playoffs

Couldn’t have written this any better. It’s easily Ant, which sucks because he’s really good, but that playoff push for him being the next MJ was so forced and not even close to accurate

[DaPessimist]

Curry couldn't get his team to the playoffs, and Durant got his team there just to get swept. I'm sure you can find plenty of people who would still call both of these guys top 5 players in the NBA.

What's your thought on Jordan leading his team to 38 wins in his rookie year as a 28/6/6? Or 40 wins in 87 as a 36/7/6 player on +2.4% rTS and a league-leading +8.4 OBPM?

Golden State was a 46-win team this past season. In most years, that's more than enough for a 5th seed, let alone sneaking into the playoffs. They were the 8th-best O in the league. Draymond played 55 games, Wiggins was his next best player, Klay provided 3pt shooting but scored BELOW league-average efficiency overall, and their overall D collapsed. Steph, for his part, was 8th in the league in O-EPM, 6th in OBPM, and 13th in VORP.

What is it you expected him to do differently in order to garner your respect for his continued ability?

It's all relative to your popularity and treatment from the media. I'm not saying Curry isn't a great player, who is still playing at an All-Star level. What I'm saying is the media and his fans (including myself) still treat him like a Superstar, and I don't think he's still on that level.

MJ might be the most overrated player of all-time. Not because he isn't one of the greatest players of all-time, but because he's the poster boy for modern media hype (see Nike and ESPN), and you have a lot people out there who say he's the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close.

[tsherkin]

It's all relative to your popularity and treatment from the media. I'm not saying Curry isn't a great player, who is still playing at an All-Star level. What I'm saying is the media and his fans (including myself) still treat him like a Superstar, and I don't think he's still on that level.

MJ might be the most overrated player of all-time. Not because he isn't one of the greatest players of all-time, but because he's the poster boy for modern media hype (see Nike and ESPN), and you have a lot people out there who say he's the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close.

Jordan was 2nd in the MVP vote in 87 on that 40-win team.

I don't think there are legs to stand on with what you're trying to argue here, tbh.

Calling Jordan the most overrated is wild, given his resume and the near-perfect narrative arc of his career. Recency bias and lack of context arguments abound with his fans when Russell and Kareem come up, but that's such a cross-era thing that it's hard to look at too much, IMHO. The 60s was a very different league, and cross-era stuff is extremely difficult to parse.

Meantime, Curry IS still playing like a superstar, was more my point. You've miscast him as underperforming in some fashion. Like I said, he's still a top-notch player in the league, smashing it offensively, and just led his team to 46 wins despite major roster issues. That 46 wins was insufficient to make the playoffs is more a reflection of how brutal the West was than anything else.

That's kinda what I'm getting at; you're not really rating Steph's performance correctly, so calling him overrated isn't really accurate.

[iggymcfrack]

Jaylen Brown and it's not close. The guy wins a couple awards for being slightly better than his teammates in 2 series and everyone wants to act like he's a top 15 player in the league even though if you look at the regular season or the postseason as a whole he was clearly the Celtics' worst starter.

[kcktiny]

MJ might be the most overrated player of all-time.

Hmmm. Did you or did you not write the following just a few days ago in another thread?:

I have Kareem as 1a/1b with MJ. Perfect combination of talent and winning.

You state he is the best player ever, or tied for best player ever, but say he is overrated?

because he's the poster boy for modern media hype

Who moreso than he should be?

you have a lot people out there who say he's the undisputed GOAT and nobody comes close.

Kinda hard to argue with them, no?

- all-NBA 1st team 10 times
- 10 scoring titles
- in 9 of those 10 seasons of scoring titles was all-defensive 1st team
- 5 MVPs
- 1 DPOY
- 6-0 in NBA finals

This not to mention that :

- in his 11 uninjured Chicago seasons he averaged playing 81 games/season and 3161 minutes/season (39 min/g), scored 31.7 pts/g, and the Bulls averaged 58 wins a season
- played in 179 playoff games, averaged 42 min/g and 33.4 pts/g

Who else even comes close to that resume in NBA history? Jordan has a very strong case for greatest ever.

[PennSports]

Tobias Harris is still making 25 million a year after sucking the life out of a young and exciting team for 6 years.

Hes gotta be on the list, dude is a scrub but nobody cares because hes boring on and off the court lol. Dude took a 50% pay cut and is still the most overpaid

[NbaAllDay]

When I think overrated I usually look at who the general public (the casual fan) sees as a level of player that just isn't true.

Usually leans into players who 'look' good, mostly offensively only and shoot very well (or make a lot of hard shots)

My initial thought was always Lillard, especially with the commentary I see across groups.

Admittingly that's not as much anymore

[DimesandKnicks]

The intent was Jokic's offenese = russell's defense and vice versa. Roughly. I worded that poorly for sure but I think the context of our back and forth made that working still effective (if you read it all).

I’m not the authority on Russell as I’ve never watched him play but I feel comfortable in saying that Bill was a far better offensive player than Jokic is a defender

Why are you even commenting if you’ve never watched Russell play? If anything, Jokic’s defense is ahead of Russell’s offense.

The same reason most people put him in and Wilt in their top ten despite never seeing them play. Regardless, I'm not trying to litigate a Jokic's defense vs Russell's offense argument. But, I think the sentiments some of you are sharing about Jokic's defense is a reflection of him being overated. We can't even admit that he isn't a good defender despite him being hidden on his teams defense whenever teams deploy two offensively dynamic bigs. We saw it during the Wolve's series.

[Impuniti]

Tobias Harris is still making 25 million a year after sucking the life out of a young and exciting team for 6 years.

Hes gotta be on the list, dude is a scrub but nobody cares because hes boring on and off the court lol. Dude took a 50% pay cut and is still the most overpaid

Some people were born on the easy life. No problem with top players getting their money, but scrubs do it for years on end, it blows me away.

[HMFFL]

Devin Booker….not the most, but definitely up there imo.

I’m not sure there’s another player in the league that gets a pass the way he does. All I hear is people calling him a supposed “dog” and talking heads like Stephen A likening him to Kobe but aside from that Finals run, Booker has choked in multiple big games.

Luka obliterated him and for some reason everyone used Ayton as the scapegoat when the showdown was supposed to be between 2 young stars in Luka and DBook. Put Tatum, SGA or Ant in his place and no one is letting them slide.

There's no denying Devin Booker is a great player but I don't believe he'll ever win an MVP. I agree, he needs to carry more of the team's failures on his shoulders, like Ayton did, and Kevin Durant does now that he's a Sun.

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[HMFFL]

Tobias Harris is still making 25 million a year after sucking the life out of a young and exciting team for 6 years.

Hes gotta be on the list, dude is a scrub but nobody cares because hes boring on and off the court lol. Dude took a 50% pay cut and is still the most overpaid

Some people were born on the easy life. No problem with top players getting their money, but scrubs do it for years on end, it blows me away.

Timing favors some free agents and that's the case for Tobias Harris. He's never been an all-star, but he's willing to play 70+ games a season, and he's not a distraction.

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