I'm done with Masai

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Mavs will trade you Nico for him…?

[aj174]

Honestly it's looking more likely that he got lucky that one time. Have never been impressed, he's seemed overly egotistical and lacking bball IQ in interviews.


He's more suited to a commercial role with NBA-Africa to be honest. Help build that thing up.

Raptors just won't rip the band-aid. They need one more Barnes and a bigger Dick literally and figuratively.

One time? His run from 2011 to 2019 was top notch:

-fleeced the Knicks in the Melo trade with no leverage
-got assets for Gay and Bargnani when he joined the Raptors
-Drafted OG and Siakam with late first round picks, drafted Powell in the second round
-Signed VanVleet as an undrafted free agent
-Traded Terrence Ross and a late first for Serge Ibaka
-Traded for Gasol
-The Kawhi trade obviously

He's been bad the last few years, especially since the 2023 deadline when he went for it instead of tanking for Wemby, but let's not pretend he was never actually good at his job.

Sorry dude but I think when you made this list you know that there's a grand canyon sized gap between the best thing he did (Kawhi acquisition) and the second best thing (whatever).

Everything other than acquiring Kawhi is replacement level or routine for a GM. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc best things he did is not befitting of a very good GM. Fleecing the Knicks? Dude the league ran a train on the Knicks for ten years. Everyone fleeced the Knicks back then.

He took a great risk. Other than that, it's clear he has no business rebuilding your team man. This is non sense what he's up to wasting years postponing a strategy that gave birth to Rockets, Thunder, Magic. He's still going for the home run, meanwhile these teams rebuilt everything fully AND on top of that can outspend him for stars.

Let's say he's halfway between what each of us is saying. That's still an F since the title and before honestly.

This is an objectively bad take.

Masai traded Bargnani for Camby, Quentin Richardson, Steve Novak, 2016 1st round pick and 2 second round picks in later years. That 2016 pick ended up being Jakob Poeltl.

2013 season raptors start 6-12 with Rudy gay. He trades him for grievis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson, Chuck Hayes and John salmons. Basically an entire bench. This gave Lowry and Derozan the space needed to become stars, with a good bench behind them. They finish 48-34.

He later trades Grievis Vasquez for Norman Powell and the 2017 1st round pick of the Bucks, which becomes OG.

He trades Terrence Ross and a 1st for Serge Ibaka.

At this point, raptors have multiple 50 win seasons, a trip to the conference finals, but still not good enough to truly compete.

He trades Jakob Poeltl, a 1st and DeRozan for Kawhi and Danny green. Added them to a 59 win team that finished 1st in the east that year. Replaces Dwane Casey with Nick Nurse (who came up with great gameplans during the season and playoffs). Trades for Gasol at the deadline who becomes a defensive anchor against Embiid and Giannis in the playoffs.

Oh and before that, he drafted Siakam in 2016 and signed Fred vanvleet.

Cmon, our bench in 2019 had FVV, OG, Norman Powell and Serge Ibaka.

Last few years have been misses, but that run from 2013-2020 is something I'll never forget, and absolutely legendary. Masai is a Raptors legend.

I don't see how a run like this is anything but elite.

[stillgotgame]

This post is completely wild. You need to learn to be objective. Your post comes off as extremely bitter as if Masai has done something to offend you in the past. Are you a fan of a team that they eliminated on the way to their championship?

You are blatantly ignoring history. There are so many brilliant moves that Masai made which made him arguably the most sought out GM in basketball. Now he’s working to build his 3rd contender. He’s done it twice already.

I'm a rockets fan, no beef with Masai.

He made good and bad moves, the Kawhi thing is the outlier.

Look I get it Masai fans you don't think it's the outlier but in the time you've been defending this the data has increased and public opinion is shifting. You can believe what you want, but most rebuilding teams feel lucky to not be the raptors.

Well, believe what you want but your take that his drafting has been replacement GM level is incredibly dumb, especially pre-championship.

Find me the “replacement level GM” who drafted these guys after the 20th pick Siakam (all-star), FVV (all-star), OG (all defense), Norm Powell.

Criticize him for his recent moves but not acknowledging his past draft success makes you look petty and biased.

If he was so great drafting late in the 1st round (he was)why does he repeatedly trade that pick away now for role players? Acquiring cheap young talent was his best skill and now he’s deliberately skipping that step.

[ConSarnit]

I'm a rockets fan, no beef with Masai.

He made good and bad moves, the Kawhi thing is the outlier.

Look I get it Masai fans you don't think it's the outlier but in the time you've been defending this the data has increased and public opinion is shifting. You can believe what you want, but most rebuilding teams feel lucky to not be the raptors.

Well, believe what you want but your take that his drafting has been replacement GM level is incredibly dumb, especially pre-championship.

Find me the “replacement level GM” who drafted these guys after the 20th pick Siakam (all-star), FVV (all-star), OG (all defense), Norm Powell.

Criticize him for his recent moves but not acknowledging his past draft success makes you look petty and biased.

If he was so great drafting late in the 1st round (he was)why does he repeatedly trade that pick away now for role players? Acquiring cheap young talent was his best skill and now he’s deliberately skipping that step.

I don’t disagree. I’ve often argued that drafting is Masai’s best skill and going away from that has been part of the problem the past 3-4 years. The Raptors should have been accumulating more draft assets over the past few years because of their drafting strength and the benefits more bites at the apple would have provided.

My issue is Sane trying to argue that any replacement level GM could have had the same draft success Masai had in finding Siakam, OG, etc.

[Blazing_royale]

as if NBA would have gifted him Wemby lol

[ItsDanger]

Let's be clear about drafting OG. He would have gone higher if not for tearing his ACL. He wasn't found, just that too many teams passed on him due to perceived risk. Masai was fortunate he fell that far. Perhaps criticism should be placed on those other GMs at the time instead.

[facothomas22]

The funny thing is that the Raptors are still a better ran Front Office than the half of the NBA. The issue with them is that they have refused to commit to a full rebuild and do a proper tank and as a result, their asset broad isn't as impressive as it probably should be for a rebuilding team.

[DelAbbot]

Lol, I've been with the Raptors since their inception in 95. I live beside the ACC and have probably been to over 20 games, including over 10 playoff games.

But when they put out a trash product, I don't need to waste my time following them. That's like continuing to watch a TV show in it's 6th season when the story line is bad and the actors have changed to less quality actors.

Am I a die hard fan, definitely not but I've have the jerseys, the games I've attended and the memories of the raptors throughout their history.

And I'm fully entitled to not spend time or money on a low quality product.

Ironically, you’ve been so spoiled as a fan due to Masai’s success for nearly a decade that you’re now unable to go through even a couple rough years. You’re not a die hard fan, you’re a spoiled fan.

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't get how it can be called being spoiled when you don't understand what your management has been doing for the past 3 years.

As I've mentioned, I've been fairly patient waiting to see the plan come to fruition and now I'm confused again.

I'm in the business world, if I underperformed for 3 years, you best believe I would be fired. I hold the Raptors or any team I root for to a similar standard in terms of players, coaches, management, ownership and their performance.

I'm pretty certain Los was referring to Masai when he said "unable to go through even a couple of rough years".

[DelAbbot]

Kind of ridiculous to hear a Cavs fan talking about top 10 players when they are at the top of the East without a top 10 player. Closest thing the Cavs have to a top 10 player is Donovan Mitchell, a player they traded away all their 1sts for. The Raptors are in prime position to trade picks for a star player. Until then, they have an extremely solid supporting cast of players, and lots of young players who have shown promise (just five rookies from this year alone).

Yeah Donovan is close or there, he’s certainly top 12 or 13 and would be viewed higher if he wasn’t sacrificing minutes and points in his prime, but the reality is that’s what makes it hard. We needed to go out and trade for our BI in Deandre. An injury prone player who can be good, just to give ourselves a shot. But we sent some seconds for him. Not a first round pick. You have sent a first round pick for Poetl right at the time you should be in full rebuild. You took on crap like Quickley and RJ rather than ship your guy for multiple firsts. Multiple firsts are risky but have huge upside. Both those dudes are second unit guys.

But why in the world would you trade anything away to grab some alpha dog to play with the garbage roster that’s the Raps? We have 4 guys better than your best guy. Quickley, RJ, BI? That is not the framework for a good team. That’s not we just now need a piece. None have any value and you keep trading firsts to grab guys who aren’t very good at all.

What’s the point of a first for BI? All it possibly does best case is make you some playin prayer and you’ll be paying his so much he won’t be worth anything? Plus it has a high upside of being disaster with his health.

I just don’t get Masai. I like the dude, but his best skill is finding undervalued talent from around the world. He’s the first guy who should have been looking to parlay Siakam and OG into like 4 or 5 firsts. Instead he ignored his one skill at finding undervalued talent and went the route of finding guys who were already mired in being NBA disappointments and it just hasn’t worked out and has turned into an expensive team with a win total every year of like 35-40 wins max.



I don’t get how you get the rookie of the year, have a number of guys with serious value, and decide to go for underperforming current NBA guys over taking a shot and trusting your one best skill of finding gems? He got OG at 23 and Siakam at 27. Why would you want a much more expensive Poetl and BI by giving away picks slightly better than that? I mean he could have gave himself like 7 or 8 shots at picks in that range between Siakam, OG, FVV would have got 1 maybe, and even Lowry at the end might have got one had they moved on earlier with those dudes. I’d rather have picks any day over guys like IG and RJ. That’s the makings of nothing. Maybe you miss, but how does a dude who got OG and Siakam deep first all of a sudden not take a half dozen shots at that range? All his hidden gems are better than anyone on the Raps not named Scotty. Just literally taking away the chance of greatness to settle for 35 wins. I don’t get that. I’d hate cheering for that. If everything breaks right we have this expensive team who if they’re healthy, might be able to sniff the 6 seed at the very best and none of the guys have any real value to move outside Scotty, who is the one you should have kept 3 years ago and gave him a shot at a draft haul where maybe you hit a pick. As constructed, why bother?

Great points.

[DelAbbot]

You guys are lucky to have Masai. He brought a title to a team that no one ever thought would win one in a million years. He should get at least 10 years of grace for that.

I think this is what Masai thought as well after he signed his top 3 NBA executive pay in 2021 and took the next few years off.

[Pointgod]

Nah, Masai's track record was impeccable for over a decade. He did a great job building the Nuggets and then Raptors even before the Kawhi trade.

Now, one could argue that like John Paxson before him his greatest skill was ripping off the Knicks. The Melo trade and Bargs trade changed the course for both franchises. But his body of work was great.


Which is why his recent work confuses me so. I often wonder if we've reached the point where the analytics managers have officially passed all the ideas guys. I.e. he can't get the upper hand in negotiations the way he used to because everyone else can quantitatively assess value now.

That's possible, but it doesn't fully explain how he himself got ripped off three years in a row: Norm for Grent, 1st for Thad who was about to be waived, and Poeltl. First trade was him throwing away a valuable asset for a fringe mystery box NBA player who is still grossly overrated. Next two are expensive yet marginal win-now moves for a team that had no chance of winning a playoff series, made by a GM/POBO who was obsessed with building around the 4th and 5th best players on the title team.

1. Trading Norm also helped tank the team's chemistry and ensured that the ensuing flawed core would no longer be viable. He did a lot of things that Pascal/OG/Fred couldn't do, and he had not even peaked yet. Three years after the trade, when Grent was gone, everyone could see that Norm was still the flat-out better player in the end. (As a side note: The same crowd that compares trading for picks to trading for a mystery box still continues to defend trading Norm for someone who had far less upside than a mystery box. I suspect this crowd grossly undervalued Norm because he wasn't a breakout playoff hero like their beloved 4th and 5th best players on the title team, tbh.)

2. Part of the rationale for trading a first for Thad was that the Raptors' preferred draft target was Koloko, regardless of first or second round. Turns out that drafting Koloko with a second round pick instead of a first round pick helped ensure that he left the Raptors in free agency - so yet another case of asset deprivation at the hands of Masai, out of many such cases.

3. The Poeltl trade also helped VanVleet put up better numbers and earn a bigger contract from the Rockets in the offseason, leaving the Raptors with nothing once again. It also helped accelerate the Spurs' rebuild which culminated in Wembenyama a few months later, while the Raptors are still stuck. Right now, Poeltl has yet to be moved in this nascent second apron era due to his $19.5m/yr contract, while the lottery pick he got traded for would be a much better asset. (Masai would most likely draft someone like Buzelis or Edey instead of Dillingham.)

The main thing about these three trades is that the trades were just flat out dumb. They had little to do with analytics making it harder to fleece GMs nowadays, and more to do with Masai grossly overvaluing the 4th and 5th best players on the title team, while grossly undervaluing some other players, and thinking he is still too clever for the rest of the league to handle. Also conveniently, all three trades helped contribute significantly to the Raptors' asset drain.

This sounds like you're an advocate of the "he started to believe that his farts smell like roses" theory?

I think the best trade Masai has ever done (Kawhi) setup an unrealistic expectation that he could just build a decent team and get another trade like that to put the Raptors over the top. The Raptors front office is believing their own hype and haven’t adjusted to the new NBA where draft picks and flexibility are more valuable than actual players. You see how the Spurs were able to get a player like D’Aaron Fox without giving up a single good player and also maintaining their picks and it gets frustrating that Masai doesn’t seem to value picks, despite the fact that the front office is amazing at drafting!

[realball]

That's possible, but it doesn't fully explain how he himself got ripped off three years in a row: Norm for Grent, 1st for Thad who was about to be waived, and Poeltl. First trade was him throwing away a valuable asset for a fringe mystery box NBA player who is still grossly overrated. Next two are expensive yet marginal win-now moves for a team that had no chance of winning a playoff series, made by a GM/POBO who was obsessed with building around the 4th and 5th best players on the title team.

1. Trading Norm also helped tank the team's chemistry and ensured that the ensuing flawed core would no longer be viable. He did a lot of things that Pascal/OG/Fred couldn't do, and he had not even peaked yet. Three years after the trade, when Grent was gone, everyone could see that Norm was still the flat-out better player in the end. (As a side note: The same crowd that compares trading for picks to trading for a mystery box still continues to defend trading Norm for someone who had far less upside than a mystery box. I suspect this crowd grossly undervalued Norm because he wasn't a breakout playoff hero like their beloved 4th and 5th best players on the title team, tbh.)

2. Part of the rationale for trading a first for Thad was that the Raptors' preferred draft target was Koloko, regardless of first or second round. Turns out that drafting Koloko with a second round pick instead of a first round pick helped ensure that he left the Raptors in free agency - so yet another case of asset deprivation at the hands of Masai, out of many such cases.

3. The Poeltl trade also helped VanVleet put up better numbers and earn a bigger contract from the Rockets in the offseason, leaving the Raptors with nothing once again. It also helped accelerate the Spurs' rebuild which culminated in Wembenyama a few months later, while the Raptors are still stuck. Right now, Poeltl has yet to be moved in this nascent second apron era due to his $19.5m/yr contract, while the lottery pick he got traded for would be a much better asset. (Masai would most likely draft someone like Buzelis or Edey instead of Dillingham.)

The main thing about these three trades is that the trades were just flat out dumb. They had little to do with analytics making it harder to fleece GMs nowadays, and more to do with Masai grossly overvaluing the 4th and 5th best players on the title team, while grossly undervaluing some other players, and thinking he is still too clever for the rest of the league to handle. Also conveniently, all three trades helped contribute significantly to the Raptors' asset drain.

This sounds like you're an advocate of the "he started to believe that his farts smell like roses" theory?

I think the best trade Masai has ever done (Kawhi) setup an unrealistic expectation that he could just build a decent team and get another trade like that to put the Raptors over the top. The Raptors front office is believing their own hype and haven’t adjusted to the new NBA where draft picks and flexibility are more valuable than actual players. You see how the Spurs were able to get a player like D’Aaron Fox without giving up a single good player and also maintaining their picks and it gets frustrating that Masai doesn’t seem to value picks, despite the fact that the front office is amazing at drafting!

Spurs traded away their '27 pick to get Fox. Raptors traded away the Pacers' '26 pick. Just stop it dude, you keep making a fool of yourself.

Debate the other poster's comment or ignore it. Avoid the last line in your post as it's likely to start a personal argument (which it did.) -b

[Got Nuffin]

If the Raptors sit Ingram for most of the rest of the season and maintain their top 4-5 pick status in this draft, they will be in a fantastic position, especially considering how good they’ve been at player development.

Bringing in VJ Edgecombe (for example) and Brandon Ingram to a team which already includes Barnes, Quickley, Barrett, Dick, Agbaji, Walter, Poeltl would be a surreal turnaround.

And if we get lucky and draft Dylan Harper, sorry but it’s over

[doogie_hauser]

In all honesty, Chicago could do a lot worse and not try poach Masai if they are looking to punt AKME.

Bulls looks like they finally planning to bottom out/tank.

[stillgotgame]

If the Raptors sit Ingram for most of the rest of the season and maintain their top 4-5 pick status in this draft, they will be in a fantastic position, especially considering how good they’ve been at player development.

Bringing in VJ Edgecombe (for example) and Brandon Ingram to a team which already includes Barnes, Quickley, Barrett, Dick, Agbaji, Walter, Poeltl would be a surreal turnaround.

And if we get lucky and draft Dylan Harper, sorry but it’s over

The problems with that lineup starts at the top. Masai is building around Barnes. He can’t shoot. 0-8 last night from three and now going through his 2nd full season at 28%. Then you’ve also got Poetl who can’t shoot. Then you’ve added a bunch of guys that drive to the hoop. End result is no spacing.
This is exactly the opposite of how today’s NBA is trending. Winning teams like the Celtics have at least 4 or 5 three point shooters on the court at all times.

Terribly constructed roster going nowhere.

[Sane]

I'm a rockets fan, no beef with Masai.

He made good and bad moves, the Kawhi thing is the outlier.

Look I get it Masai fans you don't think it's the outlier but in the time you've been defending this the data has increased and public opinion is shifting. You can believe what you want, but most rebuilding teams feel lucky to not be the raptors.

Well, believe what you want but your take that his drafting has been replacement GM level is incredibly dumb, especially pre-championship.

Find me the “replacement level GM” who drafted these guys after the 20th pick Siakam (all-star), FVV (all-star), OG (all defense), Norm Powell.

Criticize him for his recent moves but not acknowledging his past draft success makes you look petty and biased.

If he was so great drafting late in the 1st round (he was)why does he repeatedly trade that pick away now for role players? Acquiring cheap young talent was his best skill and now he’s deliberately skipping that step.

Raptors fans, I can't reply to all of you there's too many of you. He's chosen well and now there's nothing here. I'm sorry but as the poster above me correctly points out there has been no benefit to his above average batting record on late draft picks.

Such an obscure skill to pump up for a guy who has been punting for almost half a decade now. Sorry but you deserve better. Even if you believe he had a good run, he has been bad to mediocre for most of the past 5 years. He even got Barnes he could've built on it so easily, but the Raptors are in no-mans-land right now. IMO it's more likely Barnes asks out than Masai successfully rebuilds. It's not a good place to be for a team outside of LA and NY.

If he's as interested in the title as you wish him to be, he will not wait around forever.

[Pointgod]

This sounds like you're an advocate of the "he started to believe that his farts smell like roses" theory?

I think the best trade Masai has ever done (Kawhi) setup an unrealistic expectation that he could just build a decent team and get another trade like that to put the Raptors over the top. The Raptors front office is believing their own hype and haven’t adjusted to the new NBA where draft picks and flexibility are more valuable than actual players. You see how the Spurs were able to get a player like D’Aaron Fox without giving up a single good player and also maintaining their picks and it gets frustrating that Masai doesn’t seem to value picks, despite the fact that the front office is amazing at drafting!

Spurs traded away their '27 pick to get Fox. Raptors traded away the Pacers' '26 pick. Just stop it dude, you keep making a fool of yourself.

Hey dumbass the Spurs traded their 27 pick, Minnesota’s 31 pick (acquired from the lottery pick the Raptors gave them in the Poeltl trade) and the Bulls 25 pick and a bunch of seconds (Charlotte pick was a fake first rounder) to get Fox. They didn’t move their best player, second best player, third best player or even 9th best player in the transaction to bring in an allstar. The Spurs still 2 picks from Atlanta, a pick from Dallas or Minnesota, a pick from Boston and 6 of their own picks over the next 7 years plus tons of young talent if they want to bring in a superstar to pair with Wemby, Fox and Castle.

The Raptors meanwhile only have their own picks moving forward and will have to either trade RJ or IQ just to avoid the luxury tax and will have to mortgage their future to trade for a superstar. Two teams two different approaches to team building but one has an obvious advantage.

I know you Masai glazers act like he can do no wrong but pointing out objective missteps doesn’t mean he’s not a good GM.

Personal attacks are not allowed. Debate the post but don't insult the poster. -b

[YogurtProducer]

If the Raptors sit Ingram for most of the rest of the season and maintain their top 4-5 pick status in this draft, they will be in a fantastic position, especially considering how good they’ve been at player development.

Bringing in VJ Edgecombe (for example) and Brandon Ingram to a team which already includes Barnes, Quickley, Barrett, Dick, Agbaji, Walter, Poeltl would be a surreal turnaround.

And if we get lucky and draft Dylan Harper, sorry but it’s over

The problems with that lineup starts at the top. Masai is building around Barnes. He can’t shoot. 0-8 last night from three and now going through his 2nd full season at 28%. Then you’ve also got Poetl who can’t shoot. Then you’ve added a bunch of guys that drive to the hoop. End result is no spacing.
This is exactly the opposite of how today’s NBA is trending. Winning teams like the Celtics have at least 4 or 5 three point shooters on the court at all times.

Terribly constructed roster going nowhere.

IQ + Ingram are both guys who will shoot anywhere betwen 37-40%. Barrett as well has been a 35ish% guy to.

The Cavs are currently first with no shooting Allen and low volume Mobley. No reason why Poeltl/Barnes cannot replicate that. The Rockets are a very good team with minimal shooting as well.

Shooting definitely makes things a lot easier, but it is still possible to be a good team without 4/5 shootes on the court at all times.

[tsherkin]

IQ + Ingram are both guys who will shoot anywhere betwen 37-40%. Barrett as well has been a 35ish% guy to.

Barrett has consistently proven himself from the right corner, at least, so we can scheme to get him there for spacing effect if everything else in the O is clicking well enough, for sure.

The Cavs are currently first with no shooting Allen and low volume Mobley. No reason why Poeltl/Barnes cannot replicate that. The Rockets are a very good team with minimal shooting as well.

Shooting definitely makes things a lot easier, but it is still possible to be a good team without 4/5 shootes on the court at all times.

This is all true, though obviously in Cleveland's specific case, they have a lot of elite shooting. And Mobley's a 38.5% shooter on 2.8 3PA/g, which is nearly a quarter of his total shooting volume. He doesn't shoot a lot, but you do have to respect his threat from distance. And that's pretty much 4 guys on the court at all times you need to pay attention to from deep. Plus, while Allen doesn't shoot from deep, he's capable around the foul line. Like bottom-ish of the circle, and also from the left baseline a bit out to around 15 feet. And then of course you can see how to move him out of the middle, yeah? He runs the floor well, but he also sets a lot of high screens, and is 8th in the league in screen assists per game as a result. He'll also lurk in the dunker spot, and can fade back to catch and take a J, or step in for a lob, etc.

So yeah, they work really well with a relatively non-shooter and 4 guys spacing around.

It'd be harder with Poeltl and Barnes, but Barnes at least seems to be getting his mid-range down a bit, can post, can be used as a screener, in transition, etc. ANd sometimes we can use him as a PnR handler to shake it up, etc. And Ingram definitely spaces.

Definitely doable, even if it won't be elite.

[Meeksology]

And here for the gens boards enjoyment is what the raptors forum looks like every day. The whiny kids stamping their feet that the team should trade everyone so they can win 10 games every year for a 14% shot at the first overall pick. They took a break while the team won a championship but they're back in full force now.

If you are truly done with Masai, then I encourage you to stop watching the team and do something productive with your life.

Like I've been saying since the Rogers takeover happens, in a couple of years Masai will be gone and we'll go back to the raptors glory days where some incompetent D bag becomes POBO and hires geniuses like Rob Babcock to run the show. Then you guys will get exactly what you deserve. On the bright side though, we will be picking in the top 5-10 for the next decade when that happens so you guys will probably be happy at all the Charlie Villanuevas and Rafael Araujos we end up with.

Summed up alot of my thoughts perfectly.. thanks.