Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[UcanUwill]

it is fake, i've made my decision, doesn't matter if in that year it was competitive integrity. Compared to every other year in NBA history it destroys the integrity due to a free off-season between the regular season and the playoffs. There was no marathon that year, it was two short bursts.

All contenders were playing, circumstances were the same for everyone, they played basketball games.

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. Compare it to any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

Well yeah, we established it was different, still does not make it fake. Also, American leagues are long as crap just cause for the money, to me it is pretty silly to suggest that 40-50 games is not enough to determine a champion...

Integrity apparently gets lost cause overly long season was cut short and we lost mickey mouse march part of the season... Thats a lame way for hating a championship.

[Iwasawitness]

of the 4 titles LeBron earned, only 1 would really be viewed as a "true" title which is 2016

2012 and 2013 were a result of LeBron stacking the deck and he still got incredibly fortunate in 2013 with arguably the greatest shot in NBA history

2020 is the fakest title in NBA history, no NBA season has ever had a 3 month break between the regular season and playoffs. It's complete nonsense. No NBA season will ever have a 3 month break between the regular season and playoffs barring another freak global incident.

2012 and 2013 don't have value because he "stacked the deck", even though his team went into the 2012 finals as the underdogs, and they were one Ray Allen three away from losing in 2013?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 90% of you don't know what stacking the deck means.

Your 2020 argument is too laughable to put any time into explaining why it's wrong (which it is btw).

If it was laughable it would be easy for you to explain why it’s wrong, but it isn’t . In almost 80 NBA seasons, the playoffs happen immediately after a 60-80 game regular season. 2020 is the only year when the professionals were able to take 3 months off between the regular season and the playoffs. 3 months to recover, rest, rehab, etc. that has never been an option for any other season of NBA basketball. It’s not a true ring, the players did not play a true season.

How does that mean it's not a true ring?

[Godymas]

All contenders were playing, circumstances were the same for everyone, they played basketball games.

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. Compare it to any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

Well yeah, we established it was different, still does not make it fake. Also, American leagues are long as crap just cause for the money, to me it is pretty silly to suggest that 40-50 games is not enough to determine a champion...

Integrity apparently gets lost cause overly long season was cut short and we lost mickey mouse march part of the season... Thats a lame way for hating a championship.

it is fake, it is does not have any competitive integrity, it wasn’t cut short, it was given an entire off-season. Look at the timelines, 3 months without any basketball. It was a mini tournament.

[TroubleS0me]

Its nice that he stayed loyal to Utah but look at what happen. He got no rings. Sometimes you gotta leave a situation to get what you want.
He still one of the best PG ever.

[UcanUwill]

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. Compare it to any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

Well yeah, we established it was different, still does not make it fake. Also, American leagues are long as crap just cause for the money, to me it is pretty silly to suggest that 40-50 games is not enough to determine a champion...

Integrity apparently gets lost cause overly long season was cut short and we lost mickey mouse march part of the season... Thats a lame way for hating a championship.

it is fake, it is does not have any competitive integrity, it wasn’t cut short, it was given an entire off-season. Look at the timelines, 3 months without any basketball. It was a mini tournament.

Yes, it had a break. But whole end of the season and play offs been played, how is that mini tournament to you? Only bubble had more games than most other leagues just have, period. 4 teams playing 2 games each over a weekend is a mini tournament, the whole massive NBA postseason was indeed played.

Intermission definitely changed the possible outcome of the season, and 36 year old Lebron led team benefited a ton from it. I can undestand not liking that, because NBA teams aren't built for such purpose usually, but more than enough has been played for it to be a ring, and far from it being a mini tournament.

[The4thHorseman]

Lebron also had to go up against better teams in the finals too. The sword cuts both ways.

You can say you don’t “like” the way LeBron teams were built, but I don’t think those things really have a clearly defined place when discussing the merit of his career.

Yes, harder finals opponents but a much much weaker conference than the west making it easier to get to the finals.

Not nearly as easy as the early 80's (especially the West) where conference champions got 1st round byes (only 3gm series in 1st round) and only needed 8 wins to get to the finals.

[Drakeem]

Depressing to see another ATG be this salty over not only the new generation but his own lack of success.

No sport hates it's own players the same way the NBA does.

[Kent]

Lol ok

[FrodoFraggins]

They are not worth nothing, they are just worth less.

Same for the Durant titles at Golden State

[Joao Saraiva]

Going where the grass is greener and all that... I don't think so.

That was the case when he went to the Heat but come on, Cleveland surrounded him with less than the Jazz offered Karl Malone.

When Bron went to the Cavs they did the moves right away and got a good team. When Bron went to LA they were absolutely awful for a while.

Idk why old stars have this type of takes. It specially annoys me cause Stockton is one of my favorite players, probably #1 on that list, but you should really shut up if you never have anything good to say.

Nobody had a problem with Shaq going arround team and always to the main contenders, nobody has a problem with players only wanting to play for big markets... Yet when a guy just goes away from a very poor situation after brilliant 7 years then we get stupid rants like this one.

Players and former players should actually learn something from Bron on this topic. Dude never said anything bad about anyone without being attacked 1st and even so he's not the type to keep on taking jabs.

[The4thHorseman]

Dan Gilbert bought the Cavs in 2005 and LeBron left in 2010, how is that recent? lmao

Yup, GOAT. Tell me another player who won titles with 3 different teams... Horry and Danny Green come to mind, name whoever else you want.

LeBron did it as the man 3 times, GOAT.

Jordan has 2 3 peats winning 6 championships in 8 years as the best player on the team while never being outplayed by the best player on the opposing team. Who else did that? Russell?

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

[MavsDirk41]

Why not? lol he's played in the NBA longer than any other player ever has or most likely, ever will. There's bound to be a million things a pro encounters in a 23 year career.

Point being James can be clowned on just like you clowing on Jordan for retiring to go play baseball. We can find issues with every player who is a top 10 player in nba history. No player is perfect. Jordans dad was found dead on the roadside in 93. I dont blame him for taking a break and pursuing baseball if it meant something to him and his dad. Its cool for James to bounce around the league but Jordan cant make his own decisions? Lol why?

And he quit the 2nd time to play Pro-Am golf, why was that? Because his college coach enjoyed it? Or who did it mean something to?

What about the 3rd time, it wasn't because the goat was about to be drafted in 2 months after he hung it up, right?

Lol an emotional response made out of frustration with no merit. Come on man…..you dont respect Jordan for his retirements same as i dont respect James for his colluding/team hopping. We all have our opinions. He retired in 03 cause his knees were shot. Dude got old and had enough. Until the nba announces a goat we will be debating this which will be forever. We all have our opinions but Jordan is the greatest ive ever seen.

[Capn'O]

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins a championship. He goes to Miami he is a ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

Cleveland and Heat weren't the only option. There were like 5 or 6 seriously bandied about. Imo, Knicks or Bulls actually did offer a middle path where he probably would have had the horses to win without a superteam cast. For the record, I thought he'd go Bulls first, then Knicks. Both gave him horses to establish his own path without looking like he stacked the deck. And also with storied, big market franchises.

That said, Stockton is being wack. Of course, his titles have value. Especially the last two.

[ball_takes23]

Lebron also had to go up against better teams in the finals too. The sword cuts both ways.

You can say you don’t “like” the way LeBron teams were built, but I don’t think those things really have a clearly defined place when discussing the merit of his career.

Yes, harder finals opponents but a much much weaker conference than the west making it easier to get to the finals.

Not nearly as easy as the early 80's (especially the West) where conference champions got 1st round byes (only 3gm series in 1st round) and only needed 8 wins to get to the finals.

3 gm series makes upsets much more likely, if you are the top seed you want as many games as possible

Okc loses to Denver and Indy if series were only 3 games

[The4thHorseman]

You're going to figure it all out to win instantly and get enough of you investment back in 4 years? Gilbert literally did figure it out after 2010. So got it, James is the goat, but would NEVER had won if he stayed in Cleveland, even though he won in Cleveland. Good lord man...at least try to be slightly objective. Yeah you lol you ass off while not actually even thinking 5 year contracts can impact 4 year plans.

Yep, roll players that get traded frequently have won with different team. Just as the goat that colluded to win, but could never win without collusion, even though he's the goat. I think I understand the pretzel logic... that it isn't logic.

It's not hard to follow, if you want to.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Kyrie if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Wiggins if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Bennett if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Waiters if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs sign Jon Leuer if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

LOL!

Yeah, there's never been star players that sign to play with James either!

You're entire point is completely conflicting.

Anthony Davis and????

[MavsDirk41]

Jordan has 2 3 peats winning 6 championships in 8 years as the best player on the team while never being outplayed by the best player on the opposing team. Who else did that? Russell?

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

Hey when are you gonna answer my question about the 88/89 Pistons? You say they were not loaded with talent…can you explain? Curious on how you got that.

[ThunderBolt]

This isn't march madness or something like the BCS college football where the championship teams are picked. Teams play 82 games and then as many 28 playoff games. All all titles equally as impressive? No but they all have value.

[Birth of the Cool]

When I was growing up I was like damn it's too bad Stockton & Malone didn't win it all, now I'm happy MJ and the Bulls stopped those two fools.

[Los_29]

Lebron won a championship playing with Matthew Dellavedova, Tristan Thompson, JR. Smith, Iman Shumpert, Mo Williams. That’s actually unbelievable when you think about how deep the championship teams have been the past few years. In fact the last weak team to win was the Lakers as outside of LeBron and AD, they had a team that lacked talent and depth.

Stockton was an incredible player and he does have a point with LeBron going to Miami to be in a better situation. But LeBron carried his teams to championships and deserves credit for that.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

The typical straw man as if there wasnt a honorable third way - leave Cleveland but dont go and build a superteam with two other top tier superstars and hide in the east and fill up with great role players.

He could have done a dozen other things people would have accepted, he could have won titles - a few less maybe but a lot more respectable. He chose the easiest possible way while still demanding people call him GOAT. But...GOATs do not need to take the easiest way.

Dirk, Giannis, Kawhi, Joker won without the weak stuff. When all the media manipulation and hype is over, it will be commonly accepted those people are more relevant than LeBron in the big picture.

The guy that said "either get me the MVP runner up or I'm going to the Lakers with LeBron and AD"? What the **** are you going on about

Kawhi won a title on a team noone would consider a superteam. I'm not referring to what he did before (winning with the spurs) or after (the all but remarkable Clippers chapter).

LeBron refused to EVER go to an AVERAGE team and attempt to win on his own, outside of his first Lakers season, where he completely failed to even make the post season. On top of that, he crowned himself the King and declared himself the GOAT. Shouldnt we hold him to higher standards than every one else, and not continue to make excuses for him?