Can we admit the obvious yet? Jokic is the greatest offensive player ever

[Franco]

Jokic is def top-3 GOAT offensive player and a top-6 all timer and he's still going

Can you imagine Jokic playing with another HOF/All-NBA tier player?

Jokic/Prime Curry
Jokic/Prime Wade
Jokic/Prime Kyrie

With a good supporting cast, it would be dynastic. Apparently, Jokic needs to force a trade to the Celtics or GSW and ruin the league in order to be considered the GOAT.

Joker being Joker, he will not force a trade

He gets to farm regular season numbers and MVPs and divert all playoff expectation. He's in paradise.

Totally numb to these ridiculous nightly box-scores in general when you consider the ramification of this era's P/R/A inflation, the lack of real frontcourt size in the NBA & the way he went out of the playoffs in 2020/2021/2022/2024 (a lot of them being due to him being a cone on the other end of the floor, so a pass for this thread).

This argument is always so stupid, like we don't have data for this. Center/Power Forwards are on average an inch shorter than they used to be in the 90s, but also 4~5lbs heavier.

[DimesandKnicks]

Joker being Joker, he will not force a trade

He gets to farm regular season numbers and MVPs and divert all playoff expectation. He's in paradise.

Totally numb to these ridiculous nightly box-scores in general when you consider the ramification of this era's P/R/A inflation, the lack of real frontcourt size in the NBA & the way he went out of the playoffs in 2020/2021/2022/2024 (a lot of them being due to him being a cone on the other end of the floor, so a pass for this thread).

This argument is always so stupid, like we don't have data for this. Center/Power Forwards are on average an inch shorter than they used to be in the 90s, but also 4~5lbs heavier.

The 90s was about stopping Jordan, the 2000s was about stopping Shaq so I’d be curious as the average height and weight of PFs/C’s in the 2000s, and two just height/weight doesn’t equate to strength. Not to mention, I’m pretty sure the heights and weight we have for guys, at least in the past, were simply their rookie measurements

[audiosway]

You guys are hilarious with this stuff. Yes, Jokic is a great player and incredibly fun to watch. But, greatest offensive player ever? Why do they always have to be the best ever? First of all, you never watched Wilt did you? That man was 7 foot and could run a 4.5 second 40. He could rebound, shoot, pass, steal, block and whatever else you wanted. Oh and he had 100 points in an NBA game once too.

Then, there is Larry Legend. In 1985-86 Larry swept MJ, left Hakeem with a gentlemen's sweep, and took out the Houston Rockets twin towers while shooting 41% from 3, 54% from 2 and 93% from the free throw line. His total averages that playoffs was 25.9 points per game, 9.3 rebounds and 8.2 assists. Oh and he was also a 3 time All Defense on top of that. He invented the 50/40/90 club.

Wilt went up against guys like Bill Russell who was one of the most athletic and best defensive big men ever.

Larry Bird did all of that in the 80s Eastern Conference with Isaiah and the bad boy Pistons, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, and more not to mention Magic and Kareem in the West.

Yes we get to see some great players now. However, the defense today is nothing like it was in the 80s and 90s. When some of the posters mention stuff like this it isn't because we are saying the players from our era was better. We are saying that it's hard to say a guy is the best ever when players before him did super human things with a much tougher game. A Prime Tim Duncan would be hard for Jokic to work against. Let alone, Bill Laimbeer when you have a crowded paint, hand checking, and real playoff fouls. Playoff fouls from the 80s were generally what they would consider a flagrant 1 or 2 now.

There is a reason Luka said the NBA game is easier than the Euro game now. They don't have the 3 second rule and all of that. Luka was one of 5 players in Euro ball history to have a triple double this last summer. And the Euro game is nothing defensively compared to the 80s and 90s.

Some players from those previous decades wouldn't make it today. Just like some players today couldn't make it in previous decades. The game is just different. It's fast paced and offense friendly.

I do think that Jokic is a guy that could fit in any era. I just don't know if he would be as successful as he is now with the level of D that they played in previous eras. He doesn't do well with heavy contact. Smaller guys tend to get under him a little as well. A guy like Laimbeer would have gotten him pretty riled up. That can mess with your flow.