The Kobe Step Through

[sixerswillrule]

Explain that Einstein.

stop being so dense

continue looking like a fool

you stubborn 8 year old.

You're a stubborn idiot

right in front of his stupid face.

guy is straight (Please Use More Appropriate Word)

GTFO already!

mentally challenged

(Please Use More Appropriate Word) stubborn nature

Wow, I'm down 10-0. How about this: You're a douche bag.

[CharlieMurphy]

However, I would be willing to bet that at some point in Kobe's career, he was called for that move...

Surprise, you assume again and post nothing to back it up.

By the way, Paul Pierce JUST did the step through on national television. No call. Now stop speaking, you're killing all the LOLcats.

I found one for sixerswillrule

[DoctaJ]

You could be pivoting on on side of the basket with nowhere to go and end up on the other side of the basket with an easy layup.

How? Let's say your right foot is your pivot foot. So you're moving your left foot around. You can take a huge step with your left foot, pick up your right, and jump off of your left foot with the right foot never coming back down to the ground again. I don't see how this is some crazy unstoppable game changing move.

Exactly. But that is a game changing move. Like I said, you could be face to face with a defender on one side of the basket with no shot to take. With the ability to jump off of your non-pivot foot, you could get all the way to the other side of the basket, giving the defender no chance of contesting the shot. THIS NEVER HAPPENS. It's too easy. Players couldn't be stopped down low if this were the case. When I start seeing players use this move is when I'll believe that it's a legal move.

And oh yeah, I remembered this scenario. You know how sometimes after a player grabs a rebound, he might collide with someone or have something happen that causes him to lose balance? And then as he loses his balance he almost picks up his pivot foot, but he tries really hard to keep it nailed to the ground? Well, why do you think that is? It's because as soon as his pivot foot leaves the ground, it's a travel...

No, it's not because as soon as it leaves the ground.. it's because as soon as that same pivot foot leaves the ground and comes back down it would be a travel.

[sixerswillrule]

Try calling that a travel whenever it happens in pick up games, see how people respond.

Haha, I'll try that move myself. Everyone will scream travel, though...

[CharlieMurphy]

whatever, I give up, you've been shown videos that prove you're wrong, you've been shown the rule that proves you're wrong...and then all you come back was is "well I haven't seen it done, so it can't be legal (despite the fact everyone else here has seen it done during games"

Try calling that a travel whenever it happens in pick up games, see how people respond.

I'd pull a charles barkley and start throwing balls at people.

[marcroboy]

Rules are not entirely logical here. If a player goes up for layup he can raise his pivot foot, take a step with the other foot and shoot. Just compare layup steps to one-two stop, the first foot to hit the ground is your pivot foot. If a player uses the hop when he stops with the ball he can use either foot as pivot foot, Right? So why do they call it a travel when a player hop steps into two feet, takes a step forward, raises his pivot foot and shoots off of one foot. It looks like a travel to me too, but according to the rule book it's not. I don't know how it's called in the states in High school and College ball, because I've seen the move used in Rick Torbett's Better Basketball videos among other places.

On topic, Kobe usually jumps off of two feet in that move so it's not a travel eitherway. And every other self-respecting player in the world uses the up & under too.

Hey, I'd like to address this point since it's not been discussed in the thread yet(at least to my knowledge).
According to the rule book:

A player who jumps off one foot on the count of one may land with both feet simultaneously
for count two. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or
both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.

Please read the rule book from this link, it's more comprehensive than you think.
http://www.nba.com/media/2008-09-NBARuleBook.pdf

[marcroboy]

No, it's not because as soon as it leaves the ground.. it's because as soon as that same pivot foot leaves the ground and comes back down it would be a travel.

lol sixerswillrule owned again.

[mrfatwrecker]

Wow, I'm down 10-0. How about this: You're a douche bag.

Lol so does that make me 11-0? Whatever you say makes you look worse. This whole board thinks you're a fool.

Once more for effect

[casey]

B) Yes, it is a travel.

I thought before you said that it wasn't a travel. It helps that you've said this now though.

Exactly. But that is a game changing move. Like I said, you could be face to face with a defender on one side of the basket with no shot to take. With the ability to jump off of your non-pivot foot, you could get all the way to the other side of the basket, giving the defender no chance of contesting the shot. THIS NEVER HAPPENS. It's too easy. Players couldn't be stopped down low if this were the case. When I start seeing players use this move is when I'll believe that it's a legal move.

How are you gonna get to the other side of the basket. It's one step. I'm not sure how you're gonna move like 10 feet with one step. Here's a few clips of Al Jefferson doing a similar move (link, 2:04 and 4:13). I assume now that you've said Kobe's move is a travel that you would think both of those are travels too. Correct?

It's because as soon as his pivot foot leaves the ground, it's a travel...

Would you agree that for something to be a rule it has to be in the rule book? (I'm not being condescending, I'd really like an answer to that) If so, can you please show me where in the rule book it says that as soon as your pivot foot leaves the ground it's a travel. For the millionth time, your "common sense" defense does not work. It has to be in the rule book to be a rule. You're going to have to show in the rule book how it is illegal. You can't ignore the rules. You're not going to get anywhere saying that the rulebook doesn't matter.

[sixerswillrule]

I said on the 5th page that it was a travel.

Al hardly gained any advantage from those moves. Would have had the same effect had he come closer to having both feet leave at the same time. Yes, they're travels, but they're not so blatantly obvious that they will get called.

Here is one unstoppable move that would be blatantly obvious and would get called: Say you're on the left side of the basket, facing the basket, with your right foot as your pivot. You pivot around so that now back is facing the basket. Now you pick up your right foot, go on to your left and turn around again and easily lay the ball in on the right side of the basket. That is basically a 360 spin that puts you 8 feet away from where you started, all coming after stopping your dribble. How ridiculous is that...

We've discussed the rules...

[marcroboy]

I said on the 5th page that it was a travel.

Al hardly gained any advantage from those moves. Would have had the same effect had he come closer to having both feet leave at the same time. Yes, they're travels, but they're not so blatantly obvious that they will get called.

Here is one unstoppable move that would be blatantly obvious and would get called: Say you're on the left side of the basket, facing the basket, with your right foot as your pivot. You pivot around so that now back is facing the basket. Now you pick up your right foot, go on to your left and turn around again and easily lay the ball in on the right side of the basket. That is basically a 360 spin that puts you 8 feet away from where you started, all coming after stopping your dribble. How ridiculous is that...

We've discussed the rules...

Get over it, it's not a travel.

Here's is another unstoppable move. Shaq gets the ball underneath the basket. Guess what, he jumps and easily puts the ball in the basket with 2 hands!!!. How ridiculous is that... that's like .... unstoppable. Definitely a violation of some kind for sure.

[casey]

Now you pick up your right foot, go on to your left and turn around again and easily lay the ball in on the right side of the basket.

This part confuses me. You make it sound like you pick up your right foor and then step with your left. Your left foot is planted when you pick up your right. So all you can do is basically pivot, and then use your forward momentum to move you until you shoot the ball. So if you're out on the block on the left side, you can step with your left foot towards the center of the court, and lift up your right and jump off your left. It's gonna be pretty tough to get a layup on the right side of the court, unless you have a very long stride and don't have a defender in front of you. You would be able to go up for a hook shot pretty easily from the middle of the paint. That's about it. Look at the feet, you're only taking one step.

We've discussed the rules...

The entire discussion IS the rules. A rule has to be a rule to be a rule. You're going to continue to look like a fool by ignoring the rules.

[mrfatwrecker]

I said on the 5th page that it was a travel.

Al hardly gained any advantage from those moves. Would have had the same effect had he come closer to having both feet leave at the same time. Yes, they're travels, but they're not so blatantly obvious that they will get called.

Here is one unstoppable move that would be blatantly obvious and would get called: Say you're on the left side of the basket, facing the basket, with your right foot as your pivot. You pivot around so that now back is facing the basket. Now you pick up your right foot, go on to your left and turn around again and easily lay the ball in on the right side of the basket. That is basically a 360 spin that puts you 8 feet away from where you started, all coming after stopping your dribble. How ridiculous is that...

We've discussed the rules...

LMAO and we've also discussed that move you just listed. Refer back to common post move...and like Casey said, your left foot is planted when you pick up your right pivot foot. It's a single step, not some crazy 360 spin involving 25 steps. Do you really think that your infallible? Did you create the freaking Earth? Your friends must refuse to get into arguments with you because there is never any potential chance that you may be wrong, despite whatever black and white evidence in the RULEBOOK is placed in front of your face.

The human race is ashamed of you.

[Undrafted Rook]

Can't believe no one posted this video in 9 pages..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzrGyi6g ... re=related


He jumped with the non-pivot foot while the pivot foot was off the ground. Not saying it's the definitive proof that this move is legal but obviously Kobe knows the rule better than the Sixersrule guy.

Kobe travels on that video, just not in the move in question. When he starts the to drive he first jabs with his right and then uses it as his pivot foot. That move used to be one my biggest beefs with the NBA, luckily they cracked down on that. Now you see it used more in Europe which is a total disgrace if you ask me.

He never travels in that video. He establishes his left foot as the pivot before he jabs with his right (which is not a travel; if it was, the jab step would never be allowed). He then proceeds to drive before stopping for the pump fake, which stops his dribble and sets his left foot as the pivot. He spins and leaps off his other foot. That's not a travel. It's been said a million times before in this thread; as long as his pivot foot doesn't touch the ground, he's not travelling.

He establishes left as his pivot foot with the turn. Then he takes short step with the right (open step), picks up his pivot foot and doesn't start his dribble until he puts it down, travel. When you attack out of a triple threat it's pretty established in everywhere that you have to start the dribble before picking up your pivot foot. Even in the NBA

[mrfatwrecker]

When you attack out of a triple threat it's pretty established in everywhere that you have to start the dribble before picking up your pivot foot. Even in the NBA

Ironically, Kobe does travel there when he leaves the triple threat position, but that is not the move in question. He does exactly what we've been arguing about when he pivots and steps through in the lane, taking off with the non-pivot foot.

[Undrafted Rook]

Rules are not entirely logical here. If a player goes up for layup he can raise his pivot foot, take a step with the other foot and shoot. Just compare layup steps to one-two stop, the first foot to hit the ground is your pivot foot. If a player uses the hop when he stops with the ball he can use either foot as pivot foot, Right? So why do they call it a travel when a player hop steps into two feet, takes a step forward, raises his pivot foot and shoots off of one foot. It looks like a travel to me too, but according to the rule book it's not. I don't know how it's called in the states in High school and College ball, because I've seen the move used in Rick Torbett's Better Basketball videos among other places.

On topic, Kobe usually jumps off of two feet in that move so it's not a travel eitherway. And every other self-respecting player in the world uses the up & under too.

Hey, I'd like to address this point since it's not been discussed in the thread yet(at least to my knowledge).
According to the rule book:

A player who jumps off one foot on the count of one may land with both feet simultaneously
for count two. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or
both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.

Please read the rule book from this link, it's more comprehensive than you think.
http://www.nba.com/media/2008-09-NBARuleBook.pdf

I got lost in the translation here, thanks for correcting me. I ment both feet down at the count of one, I think it's called a jump stop. We agree now?

"A player who comes to a stop on the count of one when both feet are on the floor or
touch the floor simultaneously, may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he alights with
both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor."

There's some good things in this thread, it's just get lost under the arguing...

[sixerswillrule]

They clearly need to update the rules then, because I am positive that anything more obvious then the move Kobe did, such as the one I laid out, would get called for a travel. Not because I think it shouldn't be allowed(I don't), but because it wouldn't be allowed now!

Or something like this...

You can pick up your pivot foot and then stand in the same place for another 10 seconds

If you were to just pick up your pivot foot and stand on your other foot, they would call it a travel after one second. Guaranteed...

[casey]

They clearly need to update the rules then, because I am positive that anything more obvious then the move Kobe did, such as the one I laid out, would get called for a travel. Not because I think it shouldn't be allowed(I don't), but because it wouldn't be allowed now!

So are you admitting that according to the rules it is legal?

[mrfatwrecker]

They clearly need to update the rules then, because I am positive that anything more obvious then the move Kobe did, such as the one I laid out, would get called for a travel. Not because I think it shouldn't be allowed(I don't), but because it wouldn't be allowed now!

So are you admitting that according to the rules it is legal?

[sixerswillrule]

I've basically admitted that since the beginning. Why else would I choose to ignore it. If that was your only concern, you should have stopped posting on the 5th page...

But according to the refs, it's not legal. And don't bring up Kobe. I've stated what would be called a travel...