2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 2

[Torchmode]

Is LeBron still in the discussion?

[Johnny Firpo]

Is LeBron still in the discussion?

I don't think so. It's not fair, but with the Cavs struggling, he is probably out. He will get some votes as always, but he is effectively out of the race, unless he goes on a historic run and the Cavs win out, but that obviously isn't happening.

[Gil]

Harden was easily the 14/15. Most of the players he played with that year are either out of the League or the 10th man on other teams. He absolutely dragged a putrid supporting cast where the two best players missed significant gametime to the 2nd seed. That was a miraculous season for him.

If he wasn't one of the most hated players in the League because people don't "like" his playing style he would've won. The fact people are even somehow talking Co-MVP this year when Harden has a 47% chance to win according to B-Ball Reference's historical voting proves my point.

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

He was better because of who he was being guarded by. Old man Terry & Prigioni.

Harden on the other hand was putting up very comparable numbers despite being defended by elite defenders like Draymond, Klay & Iguodala.

[SixthFan]

Harden was easily the 14/15. Most of the players he played with that year are either out of the League or the 10th man on other teams. He absolutely dragged a putrid supporting cast where the two best players missed significant gametime to the 2nd seed. That was a miraculous season for him.

If he wasn't one of the most hated players in the League because people don't "like" his playing style he would've won. The fact people are even somehow talking Co-MVP this year when Harden has a 47% chance to win according to B-Ball Reference's historical voting proves my point.

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

He was better because of who he was being guarded by. Old man Terry & Prigioni.

Harden on the other hand was putting up very comparable numbers despite being defended by elite defenders like Draymond, Klay & Iguodala.

the free throw line was defending him longer then all those guys.

[Starboy]

Harden was easily the 14/15. Most of the players he played with that year are either out of the League or the 10th man on other teams. He absolutely dragged a putrid supporting cast where the two best players missed significant gametime to the 2nd seed. That was a miraculous season for him.

If he wasn't one of the most hated players in the League because people don't "like" his playing style he would've won. The fact people are even somehow talking Co-MVP this year when Harden has a 47% chance to win according to B-Ball Reference's historical voting proves my point.

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

He was better because of who he was being guarded by. Old man Terry & Prigioni.

Harden on the other hand was putting up very comparable numbers despite being defended by elite defenders like Draymond, Klay & Iguodala.

Curry had better stats during the regular season anyway. I'm not sure why there was an argument in first place. Curry was just a better player in vacuum and for his team.

[Patches Perry]

Rockets fans just want consistency. Curry beat Harden for the award 2 years ago, so Harden better beat Russell using the same argument.

Harden would beat Westbrook, but fall short of Leonard, if we're looking for that same consistency.

[BloodNinja]

For me the race has dropped to 2 candidates. Leonard & Harden.

[K_chile22]

Yeah, LeBron's case is 100% dead now

[JordansBulls]

Kawhi showing the world he is the better player now.

[gmoney411]

Rockets fans just want consistency. Curry beat Harden for the award 2 years ago, so Harden better beat Russell using the same argument.

Harden would beat Westbrook, but fall short of Leonard, if we're looking for that same consistency.

Why is that? After tonight both players will have led their teams to 51 wins. Are you giving Leonard credit for 6 Spurs wins when he didn't even play?

[RightToCensor]

My MVP voting will likely close at:

1st: James Harden
2nd: Russell Westbrook
3rd: Kawhi Leonard
4th: Lebron James
5th: Kevin Durant (I'd still take his 59 games of true MVP play over the likes of Wall, Curry, and Thomas)

[tha_rock220]

Harden was easily the 14/15. Most of the players he played with that year are either out of the League or the 10th man on other teams. He absolutely dragged a putrid supporting cast where the two best players missed significant gametime to the 2nd seed. That was a miraculous season for him.

If he wasn't one of the most hated players in the League because people don't "like" his playing style he would've won. The fact people are even somehow talking Co-MVP this year when Harden has a 47% chance to win according to B-Ball Reference's historical voting proves my point.

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

This. In 2015 curry put up more dominant numbers on a better team. Harden has the better team this year, but he isn't getting more stats than Westbrook.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Edrees]

Rockets fans just want consistency. Curry beat Harden for the award 2 years ago, so Harden better beat Russell using the same argument.

Harden would beat Westbrook, but fall short of Leonard, if we're looking for that same consistency.

Why is that? After tonight both players will have led their teams to 51 wins. Are you giving Leonard credit for 6 Spurs wins when he didn't even play?

You dont know the impact of locker room presence can do for a team. I dont think it's fair to isolate team record removing games he missed, assuming a player does play above a certain threshold of games. You can't judge the impact he has. Maybe his teamamtes like him so much they played hard for him. One of the reasons kawhi is valuable is because he is such a team player and likeable guy to play with, which helps the whole team play better and win. If these kinds of things didn't matter we'd just rely 100% on stats

[K_chile22]

deleted

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

The one part that doesn't get enough attention is that maybe the Rockets have a better roster because it is easier to build around James Harden. I've actually heard this argument with regards to Curry - which I have to admit, is pretty compelling one - that what kind of player you choose to have as the cornerstone of your franchise also determines what kind of role players you're going to pursue and attract. I think Curry (great shooter with excellent off-the-ball movement) and Harden (a great play-maker as well as an efficient scorer) each has qualities that makes it easier to build around a winning team compared to Westbrook (an athletic point guard.)

I mean, I still to this day can't think of an ideal supporting cast for Westbrook. Shooters? Look at what happened with Durant and Ibaka. Bigs and defensive minded role players? Well, that's what WB has now. So how do you build around Westbrook, exactly? And should Harden be punished for having a style that works better with other players, and thus leading to having better teammates?

The way Harden and Westbrook each get their assists is also telling. Harden usually gets his dime by setting-up his teammates, or finding an open man. WB, on the other hand, usually gets his by creating a schism in defense by his sheer force alone, and when the defense breaks down he dishes out.

Westbrook's style of play is great for getting stats, but I'm not sure how it would fit in a more elaborate system. But one thing is for certain : Popovich would definitely prefer Harden over WB.

I don't really think that's true. Actually I think that both players kinda demand the same type of players. Great shooters and Gobertlike center.

Yeah, Popovich would want Harden (as I would too) but that's because Harden can play in a system where he isn't everything while Westbrook can't.

[ken6199]

Harden was easily the 14/15. Most of the players he played with that year are either out of the League or the 10th man on other teams. He absolutely dragged a putrid supporting cast where the two best players missed significant gametime to the 2nd seed. That was a miraculous season for him.

If he wasn't one of the most hated players in the League because people don't "like" his playing style he would've won. The fact people are even somehow talking Co-MVP this year when Harden has a 47% chance to win according to B-Ball Reference's historical voting proves my point.

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

This. In 2015 curry put up more dominant numbers on a better team. Harden has the better team this year, but he isn't getting more stats than Westbrook.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Could it be Curry's 14-15 supporting cast was 5x better than Hardens, and Harden's 16-17 supporting cast is 2x better than WB's?

Not trying to be an ass, honest question here.

I say lets drop this 14-15 vs 16-17 comparison, for the 3rd time in this thread I think. It's not healthy.

[Edrees]

Curry was better in basically every way imaginable that season. Statistically or not.


He also was better vs Rockets in playoffs than Harden vs Warriors.

This. In 2015 curry put up more dominant numbers on a better team. Harden has the better team this year, but he isn't getting more stats than Westbrook.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Could it be Curry's 14-15 supporting cast was 5x better than Hardens, and Harden's 16-17 supporting cast is 2x better than WB's?

Not trying to be an ass, honest question here.

I say lets drop this 14-15 vs 16-17 comparison, for the 3rd time in this thread I think. It's not healthy.

It's also around 10x harder going 67-15 than it is 56-26 while its just around 2x harder going 51-22 than going 41-31.

[Thundershock88]

Anyone just see what Russell did? You're kidding yourself if you think he's not MVP. What he just did was God like.

[ken6199]

This. In 2015 curry put up more dominant numbers on a better team. Harden has the better team this year, but he isn't getting more stats than Westbrook.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Could it be Curry's 14-15 supporting cast was 5x better than Hardens, and Harden's 16-17 supporting cast is 2x better than WB's?

Not trying to be an ass, honest question here.

I say lets drop this 14-15 vs 16-17 comparison, for the 3rd time in this thread I think. It's not healthy.

It's also around 10x harder going 67-15 than it is 56-26 while its just around 2x harder going 51-22 than going 41-31.

Or maybe more wins can be squeezed out of 56-26 with a healthy squad, or 67-15 would take a huge dent with Klay & Green missing half season? Or Give Mark Jackson back to 14-15 GSW and MDA to 14-15 HOU see how things would play out? So we are saying coaching also impacts MVP, which is supposed to be a player's individual award?

Like I said, keep going down this road won't end well.

[xsatyr01]

Anyone just see what Russell did? You're kidding yourself if you think he's not MVP. What he just did was God like.

Against a quality opponent too.