NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Cubbies2120]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

[AleksandarN]

Jokic was missing so many shots at the rim I think he was stat padding those rebounds lol.

[Cubbies2120]

It was like he just wanted to beat these dudes so bad that he was pressing- I like that… correction - I love that Jokic wants to beat these guys - the clippers are a threat and he wanted to put them in their place.

It was like I was watching Kobe on his bad nights. Jokic was a stubborn chucker tonight. Terrible terrible game.

And to do it in an LA game, which many voters would have watched

Really? Interesting, usually we hear the opposite argument (it was a late night game, the East Coasters are in bed).

Would you say "many voters" means a higher % did watch than didn't watch? So over 50%? Curious where the voters live, wonder how many stayed up til almost 1 AM to watch an LA game that wasn't the Lakers...

[LordCovington33]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

[AleksandarN]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

Nope I would roast anyone that went for 9 for 32. It was beyond bad

[Cubbies2120]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

Can you set parameters for "recent memory" please? Or are you purposely vague?

Can you set parameters for MVP candidate, or was that purposely vague?

Your recent memory, and your criteria of MVP candidate may be different than mine.

By leaving it vague, you let the viewer decide what you mean. I could interpret it as "Recent memory = 2 weeks, yep you're right!", or it could be interpreted by someone as "Recent memory = 10 years, whoa Jokic REALLY had a bad game".

So, you made an argument, I'm just asking for the two criteria you used, you can answer it in a simple format too!

"Recent memory = last season + this"
"MVP Candidates = Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic"

Cause then I can filter and find some real stinkers for ya But if it's just two weeks, yeah, Jokic had the worst!

[KGtabake]

Sorry, I thought that came from another poster, my bad. I thought that was Wolfgang who said that.

There is some merit to Embiid ducking tough games and then showing up to kill the wizards lol

I could get buckets on the wiz -

Kuz and Poole are the lowest basketball iq duo in nba history

There is no merit. He has played the Celtics and dropped 50, and played the Bucks and dropped 40-50 in a win.

He has dominated Gobert in the past, and dominated Jokic in the past. Who is he ducking that he's scared of? Shouldn't he be ducking Horford?

Or Marc Gasol?

You among others, admitted that he ducked the matchup against Jokic in Denver last season which was crucial for the MVP race. He's showing up in the games in Philly but not in Denver.
He hasn't played in Denver since 2019-20.

In his matchups against Giannis(and Milwaukee) he's 6-10.
Head to head in these matchups:

Giannis : 31.7points- 13.8rebounds- 6.2assists- 1.4steals- 1.9blocks
Embiid : 27.3points- 11.1rebounds- 5.6assists- 0.8steals- 1.5blocks

* via landofbasketball
https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_joel_embiid.htm

So if someone is dominating the matchup, that's Giannis.
Embiid is great but there are levels.
Playing against Gobert is one thing. Playing against Giannis or Jokic is another.

[Cubbies2120]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

22/15/10 is probably Jokic's worst game of his career when playing at least 30 minutes. Wild.

What's the other MVP candidates worst games of their career when playing at least 30 minutes?

Like a 12/8/7 on 28% shooting in the playoffs maybe?

Or MAYBE a playoff game of 20% shooting (4/20 shots)?

I'd rather see the stinkers in the regular season, can you agree to that? Just a question, I'm sure it'll be ignored though...good night!

[eyeatoma]

There is some merit to Embiid ducking tough games and then showing up to kill the wizards lol

I could get buckets on the wiz -

Kuz and Poole are the lowest basketball iq duo in nba history

There is no merit. He has played the Celtics and dropped 50, and played the Bucks and dropped 40-50 in a win.

He has dominated Gobert in the past, and dominated Jokic in the past. Who is he ducking that he's scared of? Shouldn't he be ducking Horford?

Or Marc Gasol?

You among others, admitted that he ducked the matchup against Jokic in Denver last season which was crucial for the MVP race. He's showing up in the games in Philly but not in Denver.
He hasn't played in Denver since 2019-20.

In his matchups against Giannis(and Milwaukee) he's 6-10.
Head to head in these matchups:

Giannis : 31.7points- 13.8rebounds- 6.2assists- 1.4steals- 1.9blocks
Embiid : 27.3points- 11.1rebounds- 5.6assists- 0.8steals- 1.5blocks

* via landofbasketball
https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_joel_embiid.htm

So if someone is dominating the matchup, that's Giannis.
Embiid is great but there are levels.
Playing against Gobert is one thing. Playing against Giannis or Jokic is another.

And he has not ducked Giannis despite not having a winning record, which is my point.

I was upset, like I said, in the heat of the moment, given that it was anticipated, The team also mentioned in hindsight that they should have had Joel sit the other game and then play against Jokic.

I also told you the team generally doesn't have him play in Denver because of the elevation. Higher chance for injury. It is what it is, you all can think it's a bad look but unless he does it in the playoffs, it is nothing more than drumming up ****.

The commentators talked about the altitude being an issue during the finals last year, and the Nuggets even talked about how they know they have a competitive advantage with it.

In fact there have been news reports from Denver that talk about it, and Mike Malone has even talked about it.

[Cubbies2120]

There is some merit to Embiid ducking tough games and then showing up to kill the wizards lol

I could get buckets on the wiz -

Kuz and Poole are the lowest basketball iq duo in nba history

There is no merit. He has played the Celtics and dropped 50, and played the Bucks and dropped 40-50 in a win.

He has dominated Gobert in the past, and dominated Jokic in the past. Who is he ducking that he's scared of? Shouldn't he be ducking Horford?

Or Marc Gasol?

You among others, admitted that he ducked the matchup against Jokic in Denver last season which was crucial for the MVP race. He's showing up in the games in Philly but not in Denver.
He hasn't played in Denver since 2019-20.

He doesn't play in Utah much either...he doesn't want to play at altitude.

Look at the % of games missed in Utah + Denver. Compared to other places, it's an outlier...

And it's not always injuries. Sometimes he sits the first night of B2B when it's Denver, sometimes the 2nd night of B2b when it's Denver. Really bizarre lol.

But let him try to cook, he's makin some rotten food

[dygaction]

Their choice in the end, but when you are up that big and the player ends up twisting an injury or sth, you only have yourself to blame. Seen it with Embiid during the Toronto playoff series when rivers kept him out there for too long and he hurt his eye. Why risk it for a triple double? You need your franchise players healthy.

I'm not against stat padding per se, but for a lot of these guys the risk of injury is too great, and you also just want to give guys as much rest as you can when you can when they are your starters and play starter's minutes.

And you want to give the other players more minutes to practise plays in real game situations.

Didn’t they just have a 30:0 run in the very last game against OKC? Guess Kidd just wanted to pocket the win and let the starters finish the 3rd quarter.

[bigboi]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lmao. Y’all do realize Westbrook was doing this for 3 years? Lmaoo

[KGtabake]

There is no merit. He has played the Celtics and dropped 50, and played the Bucks and dropped 40-50 in a win.

He has dominated Gobert in the past, and dominated Jokic in the past. Who is he ducking that he's scared of? Shouldn't he be ducking Horford?

Or Marc Gasol?

You among others, admitted that he ducked the matchup against Jokic in Denver last season which was crucial for the MVP race. He's showing up in the games in Philly but not in Denver.
He hasn't played in Denver since 2019-20.

In his matchups against Giannis(and Milwaukee) he's 6-10.
Head to head in these matchups:

Giannis : 31.7points- 13.8rebounds- 6.2assists- 1.4steals- 1.9blocks
Embiid : 27.3points- 11.1rebounds- 5.6assists- 0.8steals- 1.5blocks

* via landofbasketball
https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_joel_embiid.htm

So if someone is dominating the matchup, that's Giannis.
Embiid is great but there are levels.
Playing against Gobert is one thing. Playing against Giannis or Jokic is another.

And he has not ducked Giannis despite not having a winning record, which is my point.

I was upset, like I said, in the heat of the moment, given that it was anticipated, The team also mentioned in hindsight that they should have had Joel sit the other game and then play against Jokic.

I also told you the team generally doesn't have him play in Denver because of the elevation. Higher chance for injury. It is what it is, you all can think it's a bad look but unless he does it in the playoffs, it is nothing more than drumming up ****.

The commentators talked about the altitude being an issue during the finals last year, and the Nuggets even talked about how they know they have a competitive advantage with it.

In fact there have been news reports from Denver that talk about it, and Mike Malone has even talked about it.

The thing is that the only way he does it in the playoffs is if the Sixers make the Finals. He can't play against Jokic in the playoffs if he doesn't make the Finals.
So we can't talk about it at all?

[LordCovington33]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lmao. Y’all do realize Westbrook was doing this for 3 years? Lmaoo

Cubbie saying that a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally while he did the exact same thing with his rebuttal is so damn precious. The irony.

[bigboi]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

22/15/10 is probably Jokic's worst game of his career when playing at least 30 minutes. Wild.

What's the other MVP candidates worst games of their career when playing at least 30 minutes?

Like a 12/8/7 on 28% shooting in the playoffs maybe?

Or MAYBE a playoff game of 20% shooting (4/20 shots)?

I'd rather see the stinkers in the regular season, can you agree to that? Just a question, I'm sure it'll be ignored though...good night!

It’s pretty disturbing how some of you swear you know basketball but lie so egregiously or show cluelessness about the NBA. It doesn’t take much to look this up. 2018 against the spurs

4 points 4 rebounds 10 assists 5 turnovers on 1-5 shooting. It’s pretty easy to look this up…

This is exactly the type of Harden type overrating that I’m talking about

[KGtabake]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lmao. Y’all do realize Westbrook was doing this for 3 years? Lmaoo

What was the outcome for Oklahoma during those years?
Jokic statlines come within the flow of the game.
He doesn't leave his opponents open in order to try to get the board(he's a big ofc but still he could statpadd like Whiteside in the past for example).
For Jokic, it's natural and fluent. For Westbrook it was statpadding.

[eyeatoma]

You among others, admitted that he ducked the matchup against Jokic in Denver last season which was crucial for the MVP race. He's showing up in the games in Philly but not in Denver.
He hasn't played in Denver since 2019-20.

In his matchups against Giannis(and Milwaukee) he's 6-10.
Head to head in these matchups:

Giannis : 31.7points- 13.8rebounds- 6.2assists- 1.4steals- 1.9blocks
Embiid : 27.3points- 11.1rebounds- 5.6assists- 0.8steals- 1.5blocks

* via landofbasketball
https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_joel_embiid.htm

So if someone is dominating the matchup, that's Giannis.
Embiid is great but there are levels.
Playing against Gobert is one thing. Playing against Giannis or Jokic is another.

And he has not ducked Giannis despite not having a winning record, which is my point.

I was upset, like I said, in the heat of the moment, given that it was anticipated, The team also mentioned in hindsight that they should have had Joel sit the other game and then play against Jokic.

I also told you the team generally doesn't have him play in Denver because of the elevation. Higher chance for injury. It is what it is, you all can think it's a bad look but unless he does it in the playoffs, it is nothing more than drumming up ****.

The commentators talked about the altitude being an issue during the finals last year, and the Nuggets even talked about how they know they have a competitive advantage with it.

In fact there have been news reports from Denver that talk about it, and Mike Malone has even talked about it.

The thing is that the only way he does it in the playoffs is if the Sixers make the Finals. He can't play against Jokic in the playoffs if he doesn't make the Finals.
So we can't talk about it at all?

You can talk about it, but it's a middle school tin foil hat school of thought.

If it had any legitimacy it would have been reported in an article by the Atheltic, the Ringer, or some investigative journalist.

The only people who make this a thing are fans.

[Hussien Fatal]

The two centers tonight

9-32 (Jokic)
19-29 (Embiid)

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

9 for 32? And blew a double digit lead to the mediocre clippers and you come here and say he’s the best player on the planet?

Jokic plays 1 side of the ball, can’t be the best player in the league playing one side of the ball, he is absolutely terrible on defense and this is evident. EVERY TIME he goes against a half decent center that center ALWAYS puts up monsters numbers.

let’s look at some match ups….

Sabonis 17pts 15 rbs 7ast Loss

Nurkic 31pts 6rbs 2ast

Sengun 22pts 7rbs 4ast

Sengun 21pts 15rbs 8ast Loss

Jonas 22pts 8rbs 3ast Loss

Sengun 23pts 8rbs 5ast Loss

Kessler 22pts 13rbs

Vucevic 19pts 7rbs 3ast

And some of these centers aren’t that great, like I said some of these guys are only half decent.
Defensively he just isn’t MVP caliber, obviously offensively that an entire different story but because of his defense you can’t say he’s the best player on the planet. The only way that this could be true is if you completely ignore defense all together and only blindly care about offense which I’m not even convinced he’s a better offensive player than Embiid.

[bigboi]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

The voters will be like "Jokic had a bad game. Wait, wtf? He had 22/15/10? Damn, he was OFF tonight offensively but still created at LEAST 42 points himself?!"

Lmao. Y’all do realize Westbrook was doing this for 3 years? Lmaoo

What was the outcome for Oklahoma during those years?
Jokic statlines come within the flow of the game.
He doesn't leave his opponents open in order to try to get the board(he's a big ofc but still he could statpadd like Whiteside in the past for example).
For Jokic, it's natural and fluent. For Westbrook it was statpadding.

Jokic is even worse at defense than Westbrook. What defense did Jokic play today? Hint hint: none

[KGtabake]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

It's absolutely bonkers that a guy can be 22/15/10 and it's a BAD GAME for him. And it was, it was a bad game.That speaks volume to the bar he has set for himself.

And you can spin it to just “a bad game”, when it was one of the worst games for any MVP candidate in recent memory.

But at the end of the day, Jokic is still the best player on the planet.

9 for 32? And blew a double digit lead to the mediocre clippers and you come here and say he’s the best player on the planet?

Jokic plays 1 side of the ball, can’t be the best player in the league playing one side of the ball, he is absolutely terrible on defense and this is evident. EVERY TIME he goes against a half decent center that center ALWAYS puts up monsters numbers.

let’s look at some match ups….

Sabonis 17pts 15 rbs 7ast Loss

Nurkic 31pts 6rbs 2ast

Sengun 22pts 7rbs 4ast

Sengun 21pts 15rbs 8ast Loss

Jonas 22pts 8rbs 3ast Loss

Sengun 23pts 8rbs 5ast Loss

Kessler 22pts 13rbs

Vucevic 19pts 7rbs 3ast

And some of these centers aren’t that great, like I said some of these guys are only half decent.
Defensively he just isn’t MVP caliber, obviously offensively that an entire different story but because of his defense you can’t say he’s the best player on the planet. The only way that this could be true is if you completely ignore defense all together and only blindly care about offense which I’m not even convinced he’s a better offensive player than Embiid.

So is he declining like Giannis? You made a thread about Giannis declining. Let's make one about Jokic.