2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[QRich3]

that kid has confused the crap out of people

who's saying he's not a rookie? Is this going to be a thing now? Ben Simmons, now Doncic? lol

I think lots of people bought into the idea that his play in Europe wouldn't translate and now that he's come over and immediately blown the roof off the league, they are over-correcting and saying he's not a real rookie because of his professional experience even tho we have had endless numbers of rookies come from Europe with similar or more experience.

Maybe it's just time to accept this guy is really good at basketball and that's okay?

aaaa! you broke me to it! Well said!

Yeah I'd love to see which of the people talking him down all of last year and downplaying his professional experience cause it's just Europe intersect with the crowd now saying of course he's good he's been a professional for years. I'd wage they're roughly the same people.

[Goudelock]

There some people saying that doncic is not a rookie because he played pro ball before getting in the NBA forgetting its the NBA rookie award and he is 19.
But let assume they are right where would you rank him among players of the former draft classes .
So jugding them how they play this season and comparing them with doncic. Forgetting they are older than him etc etc
If you are taking this very strict you will judge doncic with the draft class of 2015 because he played a handfull of games in the 15/16 season. I dont think this is fair but oke. you can choose also the later classes for every class there is a good argument to compare him with. For example 2017 draft class because that was his first season as starter.

I think it doesnt matter which class you choose he to be conservative he is top 5 in every class how they play now. Probably top 3.

So if we rank the draft class of 2015 ( the way the play this season) he will make top 5
the same with the draft class 2016 and 2017.

We have a rookie thread for a reason.

[canadiansporter]

There some people saying that doncic is not a rookie because he played pro ball before getting in the NBA forgetting its the NBA rookie award and he is 19.
But let assume they are right where would you rank him among players of the former draft classes .
So jugding them how they play this season and comparing them with doncic. Forgetting they are older than him etc etc
If you are taking this very strict you will judge doncic with the draft class of 2015 because he played a handfull of games in the 15/16 season. I dont think this is fair but oke. you can choose also the later classes for every class there is a good argument to compare him with. For example 2017 draft class because that was his first season as starter.

I think it doesnt matter which class you choose he to be conservative he is top 5 in every class how they play now. Probably top 3.

So if we rank the draft class of 2015 ( the way the play this season) he will make top 5
the same with the draft class 2016 and 2017.

We have a rookie thread for a reason.

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion...... People put time into creating a new post about a particular rookie so that we as a community can discuss THAT rookie specifically, because we want to hear people's thoughts and if there's something people see that others don't, or some homers that can bring light to the nitty gritty of what these players are doing.

By tossing this into a thread of 88 pages, with discussions upon discussions of rookie talk really doesn't serve any positive purpose. There's too much clutter within these threads to actual get a point across or have any real conversation if targeting one player or one rookie specifically. Really doesn't make any sense.

I know you're just following the "rules" as a mod, but I don't see why it's bad to have a separate thread to discuss Doncic, Ayton, etc. individually. You can't have an in-depth discussion about one particular player in a large thread like this.

Cheers,

[Texas Chuck]

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion......

Not that Pocky needs any defending from me, but I think he's right to do this. I mean the rookie thread is mostly a Luka thread anyway--don't you see all the complaints in it about so much Luka talk?

Otherwise the GB front page would be constantly filled with Luka threads just like we get threads every time Harden or Curry breathe. It's too much clutter and doesn't allow for variety of conversations.

[Archx]

We have a rookie thread for a reason.

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion...... People put time into creating a new post about a particular rookie so that we as a community can discuss THAT rookie specifically, because we want to hear people's thoughts and if there's something people see that others don't, or some homers that can bring light to the nitty gritty of what these players are doing.

By tossing this into a thread of 88 pages, with discussions upon discussions of rookie talk really doesn't serve any positive purpose. There's too much clutter within these threads to actual get a point across or have any real conversation if targeting one player or one rookie specifically. Really doesn't make any sense.

I know you're just following the "rules" as a mod, but I don't see why it's bad to have a separate thread to discuss Doncic, Ayton, etc. individually. You can't have an in-depth discussion about one particular player in a large thread like this.

Cheers,

Exactly what i was thinking. The same mod always closes down threads about specific players and throws those topics into a bigger thread where then everyone else complains "why do we talk about specific player, it's not fair towards others". And this happened couple of times before. If people want to talk about specific things about one player, why can't they? It's much better than having a discussion about one person in an open thread which is suppose to be about all players combined. Or maybe it's the forums general policy, then it makes sense i guess...

[canadiansporter]

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion......

Not that Pocky needs any defending from me, but I think he's right to do this. I mean the rookie thread is mostly a Luka thread anyway--don't you see all the complaints in it about so much Luka talk?

Otherwise the GB front page would be constantly filled with Luka threads just like we get threads every time Harden or Curry breathe. It's too much clutter and doesn't allow for variety of conversations.

Right, and I fully get where he's coming from... wasn't trying to be offensive or anything.

My only point is, what's wrong with having a rookie thread but allowing a thread about Fox, Doncic, etc. specifically? I agree there shouldn't be multiple threads about the same player, but sometimes a separation is needed.

For example (and I've seen this bundled together before):

1. How do you think LeBron's season is going so far?
2. What pieces should the Lakers look at adding to assist LeBron going forward?

I think those should be allowed to be separate threads, as when they are all conglomerated together, it's near impossible to have an in-depth discussion about a particular subject matter. But that's just my opinion!

[canadiansporter]

We have a rookie thread for a reason.

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion...... People put time into creating a new post about a particular rookie so that we as a community can discuss THAT rookie specifically, because we want to hear people's thoughts and if there's something people see that others don't, or some homers that can bring light to the nitty gritty of what these players are doing.

By tossing this into a thread of 88 pages, with discussions upon discussions of rookie talk really doesn't serve any positive purpose. There's too much clutter within these threads to actual get a point across or have any real conversation if targeting one player or one rookie specifically. Really doesn't make any sense.

I know you're just following the "rules" as a mod, but I don't see why it's bad to have a separate thread to discuss Doncic, Ayton, etc. individually. You can't have an in-depth discussion about one particular player in a large thread like this.

Cheers,

Exactly what i was thinking. The same mod always closes down threads about specific players and throws those topics into a bigger thread where then everyone else complains "why do we talk about specific player, it's not fair towards others". And this happened couple of times before. If people want to talk about specific things about one player, why can't they? It's much better than having a discussion about one person in an open thread which is suppose to be about all players combined. Or maybe it's the forums general policy, then it makes sense i guess...

It is within the forums policy if you look into it. But nonetheless, I agree. The rookie discussion is good for post-game talk (i.e. Doncic went for 30 pts, Fox vs. Ball was a great matchup but clearly Fox is better, etc). But if we are looking to have a discussion based specifically on one player, I think there's a place for this on the main page.

Nonetheless, they are the mods and have to abide by the rules and I get it. Just wanted to put forth my input as I believe a lot of people have ran into the same issue... Both myself and one other (didn't see this until after) were looking to discuss Doncic individually and have a discussion based only on him -- as he deserves to be discussed. And myself, I was looking to hear from some Mavs fans as to if there are faults to his game I don't see b/c a lot of them see his games from tip-off til the end. I will watch his games from time to time, but don't see every possession and sometimes switch between a few games.

End of the day, they are here for this reason so we can't fault them. It was simply input from my part!

[nolang1]

The Kings are 17-12 in the games Bagley's been available to play (6-9 otherwise). Since the beginning of December he's got a +12 on-court net rating; he's a legitimate offensive weapon already from not only the efficient 20-10 per 36 he's been averaging in this span (62% true shooting) but the numerous driving lanes he opens up because his defender has to stay attached to him to prevent lobs/putbacks and can't offer help defense.

[Bolivar]

Otherwise the GB front page would be constantly filled with Luka threads just like we get threads every time Harden or Curry breathe. It's too much clutter and doesn't allow for variety of conversations.

Mayyyybe but by the same logic there should be one huge Harden-thread...or just move it all to the MVP thread

[Texas Chuck]

Otherwise the GB front page would be constantly filled with Luka threads just like we get threads every time Harden or Curry breathe. It's too much clutter and doesn't allow for variety of conversations.

Mayyyybe but by the same logic there should be one huge Harden-thread...or just move it all to the MVP thread

I'm all for it.

Use the report function and alert the Mods to any extraneous threads and if they agree they are good about merging threads.

[KokoKaizer]

He's an NBA rookie, but I'm sure his experience in Europe makes the transition smoother than for players coming from college.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

But before the season he was being predicted as a bust as playing in Europe isn't as testing as playing in College?

Can't have it both ways...

Well said

[juanc]

You guys really are delusional when it comes to Luka..

He played against scrubs in Euroleague, now he plays against some scrubs in the NBA and he even can't lead his team to the playoffs. If I would have the same usg% as Luka I would average at least 35/10/15 a night.
And the only reason he gets so much seperation on his step back is becouse the defenders just don't care. They all know he is a way bellow average shooter...

[Duke4life831]

Bagley over his last 15 games is averaging 13/7 (20/11 per 36), on 56% shooting (60 TS%) and has a positive +/- over that time. His impact is pretty clear as well, Sac was really missing his athleticism and hustle off the bench.

[nolang1]

He's an NBA rookie, but I'm sure his experience in Europe makes the transition smoother than for players coming from college.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

But before the season he was being predicted as a bust as playing in Europe isn't as testing as playing in College?

Can't have it both ways...

Well said

No, this is quite poorly said. It is just cherry-picking some small fraction of people's bad opinions in order to manufacture a persecution complex. How could he have even been drafted 3rd in a stacked draft if the consensus was that he'd be a bust? Most people were very well aware that he'd come in more polished than the other rookies due to his experience and still had enough upside to justify being picked at or near the top of a stacked draft.

Your logic would be a much clearer example of trying to have it both ways, saying that playing in a far superior league over the past three years somehow wouldn't make for a smoother transition.

[Dirk]

I was looking to hear from some Mavs fans as to if there are faults to his game I don't see b/c a lot of them see his games from tip-off til the end. I will watch his games from time to time, but don't see every possession and sometimes switch between a few games.

There is a Mavericks board, feel free to visit it, share your thoughts, ask your questions and get your fan club card.

[burek3]

I was looking to hear from some Mavs fans as to if there are faults to his game I don't see b/c a lot of them see his games from tip-off til the end. I will watch his games from time to time, but don't see every possession and sometimes switch between a few games.

There is a Mavericks board, feel free to visit it, share your thoughts, ask your questions and get your fan club card.

True story. Fill out the form first: https://i.redd.it/ddhrdgafkg511.jpg

[KokoKaizer]

But before the season he was being predicted as a bust as playing in Europe isn't as testing as playing in College?

Can't have it both ways...

Well said

No, this is quite poorly said. It is just cherry-picking some small fraction of people's bad opinions in order to manufacture a persecution complex. How could he have even been drafted 3rd in a stacked draft if the consensus was that he'd be a bust? Most people were very well aware that he'd come in more polished than the other rookies due to his experience and still had enough upside to justify being picked at or near the top of a stacked draft.

Your logic would be a much clearer example of trying to have it both ways, saying that playing in a far superior league over the past three years somehow wouldn't make for a smoother transition.

We pointed out posters not some draft mogul or expert.

You can look back at this past summer threads, that's not cherrypicking.

[nolang1]

Well said

No, this is quite poorly said. It is just cherry-picking some small fraction of people's bad opinions in order to manufacture a persecution complex. How could he have even been drafted 3rd in a stacked draft if the consensus was that he'd be a bust? Most people were very well aware that he'd come in more polished than the other rookies due to his experience and still had enough upside to justify being picked at or near the top of a stacked draft.

Your logic would be a much clearer example of trying to have it both ways, saying that playing in a far superior league over the past three years somehow wouldn't make for a smoother transition.

We pointed out posters not some draft mogul or expert.

You can look back at this past summer threads, that's not cherrypicking.

Yeah so like I said, you're just pointing to strawmen in an attempt to dismiss valid statements about Luka being more NBA ready due to his professional experience.

It's just a very weird thing with Luka stans where they'd rather have him be considered some underrated underdog than address reality. In those top 100 threads over the summer where I said Luka should be considered at least one of the best 60-70 players going in, a bunch of the same people who love to brag about him now were chastising me for setting the expectations too high. It's like they don't want him to be good as much as they want Euroleague players to be considered as good as NBA players.

[Bob8]

NBA ready or better player, what’s the difference? You know what’s funny? if you look at splits stats, you will see that he’s scoring more and more every month and that’s not the case by all prospects. It looks to me that he’s improving faster than most of his colleagues. Kinda strange for a player whose biggest advantage was NBA readiness. I just wonder, what people will invent next year, when he will still be improving more than others?

[sfernald]

There some people saying that doncic is not a rookie because he played pro ball before getting in the NBA forgetting its the NBA rookie award and he is 19.
But let assume they are right where would you rank him among players of the former draft classes .
So jugding them how they play this season and comparing them with doncic. Forgetting they are older than him etc etc
If you are taking this very strict you will judge doncic with the draft class of 2015 because he played a handfull of games in the 15/16 season. I dont think this is fair but oke. you can choose also the later classes for every class there is a good argument to compare him with. For example 2017 draft class because that was his first season as starter.

I think it doesnt matter which class you choose he to be conservative he is top 5 in every class how they play now. Probably top 3.

So if we rank the draft class of 2015 ( the way the play this season) he will make top 5
the same with the draft class 2016 and 2017.

We have a rookie thread for a reason.

This needs to stop being a thing that is done in my opinion...... People put time into creating a new post about a particular rookie so that we as a community can discuss THAT rookie specifically, because we want to hear people's thoughts and if there's something people see that others don't, or some homers that can bring light to the nitty gritty of what these players are doing.

By tossing this into a thread of 88 pages, with discussions upon discussions of rookie talk really doesn't serve any positive purpose. There's too much clutter within these threads to actual get a point across or have any real conversation if targeting one player or one rookie specifically. Really doesn't make any sense.

I know you're just following the "rules" as a mod, but I don't see why it's bad to have a separate thread to discuss Doncic, Ayton, etc. individually. You can't have an in-depth discussion about one particular player in a large thread like this.

Cheers,

I totally agree. Next year as an experiment let’s not have this thread and let there be one thread for every rookie that someone wants to discuss. I bet it’s more informative and less divisive.

And if someone wants to do a little smack talk they can still do it on the individual threads. Just needs to be more limited.