2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[Castle Black]

Jokic also leads his team in Steals. Just an absolutely insane season he's having.

If this isn't the league MVP, I don't know what is.

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[web123888]

It’s a tough call. Personally I’d give it to Jokic but couldn’t fault the voters for giving it to SGA.

Very similar to the Lamar Jackson / Josh Allen NFL MVP vote. Both players had monster seasons and are rightful MVPs. Unfortunately one player will get robbed.

I would be stunned if they gave Lamar the MVP this year.(even though the All-Pro nod is giving hints). Even though it would be deserved imo, similar to the NBA they usually are not keen on giving people a 3rd MVP w/o a title beforehand and Lamar doesn't even have a Super Bowl appearance.

Not giving it to Lamar after he got the 1st team all-pro over Allen would be unprecedented. Even though i think MVP could go either way.

If they’re doing it objectively and accurately, MVP should always just go to the player who had the best/most valuable/most dominant regular season that specific year. Prior playoffs performance, Finals/Super Bowl appearances shouldn’t be weighed or taken into consideration at all.

[Rdude22]

Jokic also leads his team in Steals. Just an absolutely insane season he's having.

If this isn't the league MVP, I don't know what is.

SGA, obviously.

It could go to either and it wouldn't be a bad pick other than to sassy stans marinating themselves in fake outrage in preparation.

Aftter those two, i'd have Giannis, Tatum, KAT, Wemby, Mitchell as a distance 3-7 in whichever order.

But that's solely based on the 1st half of the season. Things can always change.

[canada_dry]

Right now I'd have to agree it's SGA. His numbers are fantastic, his team record is crazy and he's played more games.

Being real, Jokic is such an entertaining and unique player, both in terms of style and personality he's easy to like but it's not just a popularity contest.

We've been spoiled with some MVPs recently, Curry and Jokic in particular, because they combined impact with pure entertainment, but the players that are a lot less entertaining to watch can deserve it too.

How about they combine offence and defense.

This is such a dumb thing to say. This is not the "Best two-way player among the best players" award. Impact matters. SGA deserves it because his impact is also very high, not because he is a better two-way player.

Yeah. The 2 way argument is very frustrating.

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[BigGargamel]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

[itsxtray]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

Then why didn't Devin Booker or Chris Paul win it in 22' if record is all that matters? Of course Shai's stats matter.

[slick_watts]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

hmm. last season, jokic blew shai away in most impact metrics. this year, shai is pacing him as a result of jokic / denver defensive erosion (and shai / okc explosion). there is definitely an objective case for shai as things stand right now without taking team records into account, depending on how much value you put in the defensive side of those metrics. last year jokic was doing much better on those.

[Manimal]

Jokic also leads his team in Steals. Just an absolutely insane season he's having.

If this isn't the league MVP, I don't know what is.

Leads the team in steals, but that's also good for a tie for 4th in the league overall (right behind SGA, who is 3rd).

[Young gun 6]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

This x 100.

Anyone with half a brain knows Jokic has been the best player in the league this season and honestly it’s not remotely close.

There’s a good argument Giannis has been better than SGA too but it’s the wins part that is pushing SGA into and over the top in MVP convos.

I don’t think it would even be a convo if Jokic didn’t already have 3 MVP’s either, in that Jokic would be the clear runaway right now with what he’s doing.

It’s almost becoming objective that he’s having the greatest 5 year offensive peak of any player in nba history right now. Somehow this might be his best season of any of the prior 4 mvp calibres seasons too.

[Snake3]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

hmm. last season, jokic blew shai away in most impact metrics. this year, shai is pacing him as a result of jokic / denver defensive erosion (and shai / okc explosion). there is definitely an objective case for shai as things stand right now without taking team records into account, depending on how much value you put in the defensive side of those metrics. last year jokic was doing much better on those.

Yup. In terms of impact with some advance stats, SGA is either near equal or a little ahead of Jokic this year. Where as before, Jokic blew everyone out of the water. In terms of EPM, it still may change. SGA is only above Jokic by .4. That could change game by game. And as you mentioned, you could argue about the defense and how much value you put into EPM defensive impact. But there are other advance stats where SGA is either second or first. SGA was leading in WS/48, but now Jokic is leading. SGA is currently leading WS and in lebron. But WS may change too. Jokic leads in BPM.

But not all voters are going to use these advance stats. SGA is likely to win because of the team is winning and he is contributing a great deal to it. Jokic is likely more valuable than SGA in terms of his team placement though. Without him, they might be a lottery team. Without SGA, OKC still might be a playoff team. So, the fact that Jokic has them 4th seed in the West, and might move up to 3rd or 2nd, is pretty amazing. While averaging a 31 pt triple double.

SGA is playing great too. Very consistent and giving you MJ like production. SGA is very worthy of MVP. But Jokic playing this way makes it tough. It's like the best offensive season of all time.

[Ssj16]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

This x 100.

Anyone with half a brain knows Jokic has been the best player in the league this season and honestly it’s not remotely close.

There’s a good argument Giannis has been better than SGA too but it’s the wins part that is pushing SGA into and over the top in MVP convos.

I don’t think it would even be a convo if Jokic didn’t already have 3 MVP’s either, in that Jokic would be the clear runaway right now with what he’s doing.

It’s almost becoming objective that he’s having the greatest 5 year offensive peak of any player in nba history right now. Somehow this might be his best season of any of the prior 4 mvp calibres seasons too.

More important than calling it a "team record", it's about who has the strongest narrative record. It's purely subjective.

If it was the best player award, Lebron should have won it probably 8 years straight (at least), then maybe Kawhi 1, Giannis 1 then Jokic 4 years in row.

[Exp0sed]

SGA will win because the Thunder will have 15 more wins than the Nuggets. That's it. Anyone saying their statistical seasons are in any way comparable are fooling themselves. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented.

It's team record, and that's it. And you know it is. I understand, It's hard to vote against someone on a team that could win 65 games in the West. But stop pretending it's anything else.

Then why didn't Devin Booker or Chris Paul win it in 22' if record is all that matters? Of course Shai's stats matter.

Booker played just 68 games 22', he had less invdividual wins than Jokic, despite the Suns as a team winning considerably more. also, some of the advanced stats painted CP3 as being the most productive player on that team. if ur not sure whose the best player on the team - he ain't the MVP.

it's similar to Mitchell this year, I see ppl in the media propping him up as a candidate and itt, some ppl have him top 5 etc and I find it bizarre. Cavs should get 3-4 all-stars for what they're doing as a team, but I see no real argument that seperates Mitchell, from say..Garland, Mobley or even Allen and thus - neither are the MVP despite having a historic record

while I think SGA "help" is very underrated, and i reject the notion the Thunder are one man show - SGA is very clearly (by any metric or the eye test) the best player on the Thunder by far. CP3 had an amazing season that year, like i said some metrics even liked him more than Booker but they were both easily top 15 players that season and when u have supposdely a top 5 player (Booker finised 4th that year in MVP voting) and another top 15 player, the expecatations are different and it hurts the MVP case of both players - that's why Tatum didn't win it last year (among other things).

imo the Thunder are pretty stacked and their cast is underrated but the perception of most (in the media etc.) is different and they see it as SGA and a bunch of "nobodies" he's not getting the "stacked" Tatum\Booker\whomever treatment

in reality there's a very good argument for guys like Chet (in the time he's played), J-Dub etc. being as good as guys like Kyrie or Jaylen Brown this season thus far, but since the OKC guys aren't percieved like those stars - SGA is getting treated differently

[BigGargamel]

I should clarify. SGA is definitely having an MVP worthy season. I'm not trying to knock him at all. It's not just the case of being the best player on the best team = MVP. And I know some nerd stats favor him. But man....he's just not having the season Jokic is having. Jokic is having perhaps the best offensive season of all time, and his defense is not terrible. My comment was directed at people saying SGA is personally having as good of a season as Jokic. If SGA wins, it's because of the record.

It's absolutely crazy that Jokic keeps elevating his game to new heights. Just when you think he couldn't possibly do more, he does. Currently averaging career highs in PPG, RPG, SPG, APG, 3PT%. Considering he's already a three time MVP, that's just insane to think about.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Jokic and SGA have the same PPG (31.6 vs 31.5) on the same efficiency (64.4 TS vs 63.9).

To say one is one of the greatest season of all time and the other isn’t in the same conversation is completely illogical.

And SGA is leading to wins, which matters, and is a very good defender, not just a passable one. Shai has also played in 5 more games already. Which is a big difference.

Fine to have a favorite/opinion. Not really a positive contribution to the discussion to deny objective reality.

[BigGargamel]

More than just PPG. Put the rest of the package together, and no, it's not close.

[hisairness]

Jokic and SGA have the same PPG (31.6 vs 31.5) on the same efficiency (64.4 TS vs 63.9).

To say one is one of the greatest season of all time and the other isn’t in the same conversation is completely illogical.

And SGA is leading to wins, which matters, and is a very good defender, not just a passable one. Shai has also played in 5 more games already. Which is a big difference.

Fine to have a favorite/opinion. Not really a positive contribution to the discussion to deny objective reality.

You know what's completely illogical? Using two stats that are relatively close and ignoring all other stats that make Jokic's season possibly the GOAT and Shai's just a very good one.

[Mavrelous]

Jokic and SGA have the same PPG (31.6 vs 31.5) on the same efficiency (64.4 TS vs 63.9).

To say one is one of the greatest season of all time and the other isn’t in the same conversation is completely illogical.

And SGA is leading to wins, which matters, and is a very good defender, not just a passable one. Shai has also played in 5 more games already. Which is a big difference.

Fine to have a favorite/opinion. Not really a positive contribution to the discussion to deny objective reality.

You know what's completely illogical? Using two stats that are relatively close and ignoring all other stats that make Jokic's season possibly the GOAT and Shai's just a very good one.

SGA has better EPM than Jokic, only when you account for previous years Jokic gets ahead in EPM.

[AleksandarN]

People are underestimating Denver this year. When all said and done Denver will be the second team in the west with 55 wins. Once they healthy and Murray comes back into form watch out. At that point I think Jokic gets his 4th MVP.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic and SGA have the same PPG (31.6 vs 31.5) on the same efficiency (64.4 TS vs 63.9).

To say one is one of the greatest season of all time and the other isn’t in the same conversation is completely illogical.

And SGA is leading to wins, which matters, and is a very good defender, not just a passable one. Shai has also played in 5 more games already. Which is a big difference.

Fine to have a favorite/opinion. Not really a positive contribution to the discussion to deny objective reality.

You know what's completely illogical? Using two stats that are relatively close and ignoring all other stats that make Jokic's season possibly the GOAT and Shai's just a very good one.

SGA has better EPM than Jokic, only when you account for previous years Jokic gets ahead in EPM.

But you forget that Jokic is shooting a ridiculous 47.7 from leading the league in 3 pt shooting. 2nd in ppg 2 in asts and 3 rebs. That clearly better than SGA season who by his own right is having one of best seasons by a guard since Curry in Harden. It’s just that Jokic is having an even better all great season

[Mavrelous]

You know what's completely illogical? Using two stats that are relatively close and ignoring all other stats that make Jokic's season possibly the GOAT and Shai's just a very good one.

SGA has better EPM than Jokic, only when you account for previous years Jokic gets ahead in EPM.

But you forget that Jokic is shooting a ridiculous 47.7 from leading the league in 3 pt shooting. 2nd in ppg 2 in asts and 3 rebs. That clearly better than SGA season who by his own right is having one of best seasons by a guard since Curry in Harden. It’s just that Jokic is having an even better all great season

So what?
Jokic is on a meddling team, and is playing his worst season defensively.
SGA is head and shoulders above his teammates as clear cut MVP of the team, none on his team is really 2nd option level offensively, Thunder are on 65-70 win pace while posting insane box score and advanced stats, he's the MVP until something changes.
I really can't understand how this is debatable, and not only are we debating this, but people picking SGA have their objectivity questioned, I was here on the MVP thread last year when Luka led the league in scoring was 2nd in assists, had some historical games, carried a depleted roster with injuries, and everyone was saying he can't win because of record, how is Jokic any different?