2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[Hero]

I love Westbrook and am rooting for him to succeed but he's losing too many games against good teams to be mvp. The Thunder record against winning teams is not that good. I realize Westbrook doesn't have much help but great players elevate their team to at least some upsets.

LeBron had less help in his last 2 seasons in the Cavs ( pre Miami) yet he won 66 and 62 games.

There's more to MVP than just raw numbers. For all we know OKC could be doing a lot better if Russ had a lower usage and focused more on defense.

[nbafan38]

I love Westbrook and am rooting for him to succeed but he's losing too many games against good teams to be mvp. The Thunder record against winning teams is not that good. I realize Westbrook doesn't have much help but great players elevate their team to at least some upsets.

LeBron had less help in his last 2 seasons in the Cavs ( pre Miami) yet he won 66 and 62 games.

There's more to MVP than just raw numbers. For all we know OKC could be doing a lot better if Russ had a lower usage and focused more on defense.

No player in the nba is Lebron but I agree their are some deficiencies in westbrooks game and his decision making late in games can still be questionable. The Thunder have also had some injuries (Oladipu and now Adams) but their record should probably be a little better than it is, they've lose some close games they probably should have won.

[bondom34]

I love Westbrook and am rooting for him to succeed but he's losing too many games against good teams to be mvp. The Thunder record against winning teams is not that good. I realize Westbrook doesn't have much help but great players elevate their team to at least some upsets.

LeBron had less help in his last 2 seasons in the Cavs ( pre Miami) yet he won 66 and 62 games.

There's more to MVP than just raw numbers. For all we know OKC could be doing a lot better if Russ had a lower usage and focused more on defense.

No player in the nba is Lebron but I agree their are some deficiencies in westbrooks game and his decision making late in games can still be questionable. The Thunder have also had some injuries (Oladipu and now Adams) but their record should probably be a little better than it is, they've lose some close games they probably should have won.

OKC is almost spot on where they were projected. Houston's outperforming them no doubt though. Most had OKC low 40s wins to upper 40s. They currently are toward the high end.

Also Westbrook now well ahead in RPM.

[nbafan38]

LeBron had less help in his last 2 seasons in the Cavs ( pre Miami) yet he won 66 and 62 games.

There's more to MVP than just raw numbers. For all we know OKC could be doing a lot better if Russ had a lower usage and focused more on defense.

No player in the nba is Lebron but I agree their are some deficiencies in westbrooks game and his decision making late in games can still be questionable. The Thunder have also had some injuries (Oladipu and now Adams) but their record should probably be a little better than it is, they've lose some close games they probably should have won.

OKC is almost spot on where they were projected. Houston's outperforming them no doubt though. Most had OKC low 40s wins to upper 40s. They currently are toward the high end.

Also Westbrook now well ahead in RPM.

Yea I agree the Thunder aren't underperforming, they are about where they were expected to be while Houston as you said is way overperforming so right now I'd lean Harden for MVP.

[bondom34]

No player in the nba is Lebron but I agree their are some deficiencies in westbrooks game and his decision making late in games can still be questionable. The Thunder have also had some injuries (Oladipu and now Adams) but their record should probably be a little better than it is, they've lose some close games they probably should have won.

OKC is almost spot on where they were projected. Houston's outperforming them no doubt though. Most had OKC low 40s wins to upper 40s. They currently are toward the high end.

Also Westbrook now well ahead in RPM.

Yea I agree the Thunder aren't underperforming, they are about where they were expected to be while Houston as you said is way overperforming so right now I'd lean Harden for MVP.

As long as his team keeps winning its his. Personally I'd still take Russ, but that's not necessarily MVP but who's having the better individual season/playing better.

[Gibson22]

It's one of the most important periods of the season for James harden. He's miles over anyone, but now after this loss he has b2b bucks and warriors. If they lose both games, the ranking is: JH close rw cloes lbj close kd. Let's see what they do

[Krodis]

I do wonder if the Rockets are starting to run out of gas a little. This will be their 11th back to back already.

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[Deivork]

Do we agree already on what "valuable" means? I'm serious

[Lauri_Legend]

There's no way Lebron won his last MVP at age 28. I think he has one more left in him. Wonder if they'll give him the nod this year

[K_chile22]

I do wonder if the Rockets are starting to run out of gas a little. This will be their 11th back to back already.

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And they've already played the most games in the NBA I believe, along with a few other teams. Their first half+ of the season is brutally scheduled

Edit: Lakers have most
Rockets second most
A bunch of teams tied for 3rd

[PeptoKlepto]

Don't know why they don't just change this award to 'Most Outstanding Player' and be done with it. Value is completely subjective and based largely on circumstance.

[miman15]

There's no way Lebron won his last MVP at age 28. I think he has one more left in him. Wonder if they'll give him the nod this year

He needs to pick up his game in order to catch up Harden and Westbrook along with winning a lot of games. He seems like he is in "chill" mode again.

[SkyHookFTW]

Laugh all you want, but I'll say it again: If the Sixers make the playoffs Embiid is the MVP.

[kingmalaki]

You're preaching to the choir. I think Harden is the MVP at this point and by a decent margin. He's been unbelievable. I'm just disputing some of the inconsistent logic being thrown around by some Rockets fans.

The logic isn't inconsistent and the comparisons to that MVP race are way off.

1) Rocket's fans not only argued that Curry had significantly more help than Harden, but that he arguably had the most talented roster in basketball helping him win that many games. Even if you want to argue that Harden has more help than Westbrook, it wouldn't be a significant upgrade and nowhere near one of the most talented supporting casts in basketball.

2) Harden still led the Rockets to one of the best records in basketball that season.

That's nothing like this year. The supporting talent gap between the two teams is not major, and one guy isn't leading his team to one of the best records in basketball.

[Young_Star11]

OKC are 2-6 in their last 8 and still some tough games to come in January in Cleveland, SA and Utah, three tough teams to play.

Houston has GS/@MEM on a b2b, and I think they'll be overjoyed to split that double-header.

[bondom34]

OKC are 2-6 in their last 8 and still some tough games to come in January in Cleveland, SA and Utah, three tough teams to play.

Houston has GS/@MEM on a b2b, and I think they'll be overjoyed to split that double-header.

Your tough month too I assume. I know OKC's schedule eases up late, yours probably too.

[ken6199]

OKC are 2-6 in their last 8 and still some tough games to come in January in Cleveland, SA and Utah, three tough teams to play.

Houston has GS/@MEM on a b2b, and I think they'll be overjoyed to split that double-header.

Your tough month too I assume. I know OKC's schedule eases up late, yours probably too.

Houston:
Most games overall, most games vs winning teams, 2nd most road games, lot of B2B (but also lot of opponents on B2B)

OKC:
Most road games, 2nd highest opponent winning %, 2nd most games vs winning teams, BY FAR the highest opponent adj NetRtg.

Brutal month. Good luck to both of us/them!

[nbafan38]

OKC are 2-6 in their last 8 and still some tough games to come in January in Cleveland, SA and Utah, three tough teams to play.

Houston has GS/@MEM on a b2b, and I think they'll be overjoyed to split that double-header.

Actually they are 3-5 in last 8 but their schedule is still brutal coming up and they may fall to close to .500 by Feburary. I don't think Westbrook will be MVP. It's Harden's to lose unless the Rockets collapse.

[PeptoKlepto]

You're preaching to the choir. I think Harden is the MVP at this point and by a decent margin. He's been unbelievable. I'm just disputing some of the inconsistent logic being thrown around by some Rockets fans.

The logic isn't inconsistent and the comparisons to that MVP race are way off.

1) Rocket's fans not only argued that Curry had significantly more help than Harden, but that he arguably had the most talented roster in basketball helping him win that many games. Even if you want to argue that Harden has more help than Westbrook, it wouldn't be a significant upgrade and nowhere near one of the most talented supporting casts in basketball.

2) Harden still led the Rockets to one of the best records in basketball that season.

That's nothing like this year. The supporting talent gap between the two teams is not major, and one guy isn't leading his team to one of the best records in basketball.

Revisionist history. The year prior the Warriors were a low-seeded playoff team, but in the '14-'15 they had the unequivocal best roster in the NBA? No, what happened was that all of the these players (as well as the offense) developed organically around Curry and evolved a symbiotic relationship with each other within Kerr's offense - the same exact thing that's happening with the Rockets, Harden and D'Antoni this year. Same principles apply here, whether you think that Warriors team was better than this Rockets team or not.

You don't get to say the that Harden should've won the MVP over Curry (who also had him beat in almost every significant advanced stat) b/c Harden had it harder. Guess what? Westbrook has it harder than Harden this year - why aren't Rockets fans clamoring to give him the MVP?

[K_chile22]

You're preaching to the choir. I think Harden is the MVP at this point and by a decent margin. He's been unbelievable. I'm just disputing some of the inconsistent logic being thrown around by some Rockets fans.

The logic isn't inconsistent and the comparisons to that MVP race are way off.

1) Rocket's fans not only argued that Curry had significantly more help than Harden, but that he arguably had the most talented roster in basketball helping him win that many games. Even if you want to argue that Harden has more help than Westbrook, it wouldn't be a significant upgrade and nowhere near one of the most talented supporting casts in basketball.

2) Harden still led the Rockets to one of the best records in basketball that season.

That's nothing like this year. The supporting talent gap between the two teams is not major, and one guy isn't leading his team to one of the best records in basketball.

Revisionist history. The year prior the Warriors were a low-seeded playoff team, but in the '14-'15 they had the unequivocal best roster in the NBA? No, what happened was that all of the these players (as well as the offense) developed organically around Curry and evolved a symbiotic relationship with each other within Kerr's offense - the same exact thing that's happening with the Rockets, Harden and D'Antoni this year. Same principles apply here, whether you think that Warriors team was better than this Rockets team or not.

You don't get to say the that Harden should've won the MVP over Curry (who also had him beat in almost every significant advanced stat) b/c Harden had it harder. Guess what? Westbrook has it harder than Harden this year - why aren't Rockets fans clamoring to give him the MVP?

Don't think Harden should've won, but to play devils advocate: that Rockets team won 56 games and was the 2 seed. Thunder probably won't hit 50 and definitely won't have home court. Team success between the two is pretty large, it's not like that Rockets team didn't have a great record, like the Thunder this year