Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[collidingNeurons]

i think if they were going to include jackson the trade would have happened by now since he was eligible to be traded since the 4th, yes things can change but i hope they dont and the trade is dead

[Asian Celtic]

I got this from a poster on our boards. I think there is no trade to be had with the two teams but what are your thoughts?

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[Jedi32]

Griffin thinks Kyrie is going to get traded.
Former Cavaliers GM David Griffin joins The Jump and explains why he thinks Kyrie will be traded before the start of the season

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20276531

Sounds like a high-road type answer. I don't really blame him though.

That being said, I wholly-disagree with him. He privately went and told them that... but then he goes on to act like a child, refusing to answer for the FO, and to make actions publicly to try and get himself moved.

A real mature move would have been to let Cavs know. They say they are shocked and a little miffed but they understand and they will see what is there. They say they love him as a player and would hate to lose him so they will see if a deal makes sense for them too. Kyrie graciously understands as a pro, and continues to be a functioning member of the team. He understands CLE controls him for 2 more years as HE agreed to and will be willing to fulfill that if need be. The team then could amicably try to find a solution.

For everything Cleveland gave to him (not just the organization either) he could have shown far more respect than he has. But he is an arrogant little _expletive_ and is doing whatever he can to sabotage our team moving forward.

has anyone found out who leaked kyrie's trade request?

[jbk1234]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20276531

Sounds like a high-road type answer. I don't really blame him though.

That being said, I wholly-disagree with him. He privately went and told them that... but then he goes on to act like a child, refusing to answer for the FO, and to make actions publicly to try and get himself moved.

A real mature move would have been to let Cavs know. They say they are shocked and a little miffed but they understand and they will see what is there. They say they love him as a player and would hate to lose him so they will see if a deal makes sense for them too. Kyrie graciously understands as a pro, and continues to be a functioning member of the team. He understands CLE controls him for 2 more years as HE agreed to and will be willing to fulfill that if need be. The team then could amicably try to find a solution.

For everything Cleveland gave to him (not just the organization either) he could have shown far more respect than he has. But he is an arrogant little _expletive_ and is doing whatever he can to sabotage our team moving forward.

has anyone found out who leaked kyrie's trade request?

My bet is someone from Jimmy Butler's camp tbh. But there's no way to engage in trade talks without it.

[Stillwater]

I got this from a poster on our boards. I think there is no trade to be had with the two teams but what are your thoughts?

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yep interesting slip up, but giving KI to Boston seems unlikely as much as Ainge rules the world of GM's I highly doubt the Cav's would get back what they want.
If one of Tatum or Brown was made available, I think they would though.
Either way it would definitely be tough to empower your closest competitor in the East with the 2nd best player on your roster esp after they got extremely better in FA already to close the gap.
The other issue in any trade with Boston without a 3rd team is Boston would have to give up 3-4 players just match salary for KI.
So it is highly unlikely.

[nbafan38]

Cavs FO has to be smart enough not to let LeBron force their hand. He very well could leave regardless, we cannot let him influence us into only a win now type player unless he is going to stay. So unless LeBron signs an extension right now (won't happen) his opinion on matters should not matter much to us. Obviously you talk to him about deals and make him feel included, but in reality you cannot let him make the choices. In all honesty he would probably do Kyrie for Bledsoe and Bender or something bc all he is thinking about is next year, he very well won't care too much about Cavs in 2019 because it's very plausible he won't be here.

Barring an unforeseen win now player becoming available, I don't want to do any deal for Kyrie that doesn't set us up nicely for a rebuild

Remember this?

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While I have zero problems with LBJ not signing an extension, the Cavs shouldn't let LBJ dictate the direction of the franchise especially if he is expecting them to take on contracts lasting beyond his own. I am no fan of Dan Gilbert but he's already overpaid LBJ's teammates in order to "keep the band" together after winning the title. If LBJ doesn't want to commit beyond next season, the Cavs ultimately need to maintain as much flexibility as possible from their end as well.

I agree with this sentiment for the most part although on the flip side Cleveland next year with Lebron will have a much better to win it all then Cleveland in the post Lebron era may have for years. So I kind of could see trading for a win now player but I agree that it would need to be the quality of win now player or players that could legitimately make Cleveland a title contender next season and given how good GS is, there aren't too many players like that who could make that kind of a difference.

[RoyceDa59]

Cavs will trade Irving for a 'star' in his prime, young stud and a 1st round pick unprotected. Then I think after 1 or 2 seasons they will trade LeBron to the Celtics for a kings random and stock up on young talent. Celts go on to win a couple titles and Cavs emerge 3-4 years down the road.


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[OsuCavsfan103]

I agree with this sentiment for the most part although on the flip side Cleveland next year with Lebron will have a much better to win it all then Cleveland in the post Lebron era may have for years. So I kind of could see trading for a win now player but I agree that it would need to be the quality of win now player or players that could legitimately make Cleveland a title contender next season and given how good GS is, there aren't too many players like that who could make that kind of a difference.

I mean it really comes back to how good GS is again sadly. If this were any other time, even losing Kyrie, if a couple solid pieces could be added then Cleveland would have a fantastic shot at a title. Unfortunately GS's team is so stacked that there is no feasible way Cavs could ship out Kyrie and return significantly better, if really better at all. Frustrating time for sure.

[nbafan38]

I agree with this sentiment for the most part although on the flip side Cleveland next year with Lebron will have a much better to win it all then Cleveland in the post Lebron era may have for years. So I kind of could see trading for a win now player but I agree that it would need to be the quality of win now player or players that could legitimately make Cleveland a title contender next season and given how good GS is, there aren't too many players like that who could make that kind of a difference.

I mean it really comes back to how good GS is again sadly. If this were any other time, even losing Kyrie, if a couple solid pieces could be added then Cleveland would have a fantastic shot at a title. Unfortunately GS's team is so stacked that there is no feasible way Cavs could ship out Kyrie and return significantly better, if really better at all. Frustrating time for sure.

Yea I don't think Kyrie for George or Butler would have made Cle a contender with GS but that's the kind of deal it would have taken to at least put Cle somewhat in the conversation. They aren't getting that type of player right now, maybe mid season a star becomes disgruntled and you have a shot at it which is why I don't think Cle should rush a trade.

[axeman23]

I got this from a poster on our boards. I think there is no trade to be had with the two teams but what are your thoughts?

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Personally, I have no interest in losing Kyrie to our nearest conference rivals, for the "opportunity" to give IT the max he apparently is set on asking for. Also by moving AB they shipped out the main piece I personally would've been interested in that is, once again, "available". I'm guessing Brown and Tatum are probably both in the Celts long-term plans for now, so I agree with the other poster who said a third team would probably be needed.

[gino_giode]

My take on this.

There is an objective difference between the value someone has as a basketball player, and the value he represents as an (trade) asset to the team he is contracted with.

The second Kyrie leaked/made known that he wants to be traded/no longer wants to play for the Cavs, his objective market value plummeted. It also forced the new Cavs FO to start searching for trade avenues, at a time in the off-season when major FA and trade transactions/moves were already concluded.

Keeping the guy on the team won't do them much good. The more he stays, the more his trade value drops. Moreover, keeping a player on your team that does not want to be there any more has consequences, both for him and for the team as a whole. Especially if you add in the whole Lebron James aspect.

As is natural, Cleveland - being put in a bad situation - wants to extract the best it can out of this. At the same time, teams that view Kyrie as a possible/notable/worthy addition, will want to extract Kyrie for the lowest price possible. That is the norm for any and every trade negotiation in the NBA.

As expected, the trade value that Kyrie has right now is objectively much, much less than his value as a player, due to the circumstances at hand. So, I don't really think that the Cavs can reach a good deal here, given the specifics. And I don't think that the circumstances will change for the better if they decide to wait. There are a lot of unknown unknowns in that situation (injury, team chemistry, trade value sabotage by the disgruntled player, market changes etc etc).

Knowing the above, I think that the only realistic option the Cavs FO has is to try and negotiate the best available deal they can get, before the season (or even training camp) starts. And to not try to keep the player against his wishes, under no circumstances (it is impossible to get more than cents on the dollar from trading him).

Completely agree with everything but the part about Kyrie being the leaker. But either way the news would get out eventually once FOs got calls with his name on the block.

One more thing, the Cavs and rival GMs are playing chicken that the Cavs simply cannot win. First off, Kyrie's value has been dragged through the dirt with media pundits discussing his flaws ad nauseum. Yes he plays **** defense and has won less than a handful of games when without Bron. And clearly him leading a team has only amounted to being in the lottery every year.

Ppl talk about him as if he's peaked his potential. They also question his character for starting **** up despite being on contract and not being a happy camper and enjoy the LeBron ride while it lasts. If you're teammates with the great LeBron, MJ, Kobe then you're expected to take it up the butt and smile amirite?

Then there's the growing social media grumblings from their star LeBron, who they're desparately trying to placate in order stay when history has already shown us that he's not loyal (even to his BFF) and will go wherever allows him to chase after MJ's legacy. Teams know the Cavs can't risk having unhappy campers go after another chip, especially when one's as moody and passive aggressive as LeBron.

The longer the Cavs wait the more likely these deals keep getting downgraded. The Cavs are also screwed because of precedent. Jimmy Butler and PG13 are legit all NBA players better than Kyrie, but each was gotten for bags of peanuts. Cavs indeed will not get fair value, but at least they get SOMETHING unlike what they got for LeBron when he left and possibly next year as well.

[Dupp]

I got this from a poster on our boards. I think there is no trade to be had with the two teams but what are your thoughts?

Pretty much slim to no chance our two teams make a deal but personally id be all for trading ky to you guys.

[DowJones]

Question for Cavs fans only. Would you do this?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybk2wt4t

Cavs get Suns 18' pick top-3 protected. If Suns end up picking top-3 Cleveland gets the 18' Heat pick and Suns pick top-3 protected in 2019.

Only if you remove the top 3 protection on the 2019 pick.

[phraoh]

I wouldn't trade with Phoenix unless they included Jackson, and a way to balance Suns objection to including him, is to add Thompson (essentially for Chandler) and Shumpert for Dudley, basically two 26 year olds for 2 30+ players who have definitely slowed down, and recently injured (Dudley). This way Phoenix better keeps with their timeline that their fans seem to be so worried about.

I know Phoenix fans don't want to let Jackson go, but this trade is actually good for BOTH teams. Wasn't sure if draft pick was
needed, but if so, would just be the Miami 18. Thoughts?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya66pc8s

[BasketballFan7]

Question for Cavs fans only. Would you do this?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybk2wt4t

Cavs get Suns 18' pick top-3 protected. If Suns end up picking top-3 Cleveland gets the 18' Heat pick and Suns pick top-3 protected in 2019.

One must expect Shumpert being moved in any deal as well.

[OsuCavsfan103]

The longer the Cavs wait the more likely these deals keep getting downgraded. The Cavs are also screwed because of precedent. Jimmy Butler and PG13 are legit all NBA players better than Kyrie, but each was gotten for bags of peanuts. Cavs indeed will not get fair value, but at least they get SOMETHING unlike what they got for LeBron when he left and possibly next year as well.

I don't agree there necessarily. I think there would be a point next year where this would be but as of right now he is still on a cap friendly 2 year deal. Teams right now are counting on Cavs to panic and move him just Bc. If Cavs can keep him and at least do their best to go forward with him during the season, it's possible teams up the anti a little. Plus if LeBron does decide to leave and we still somehow have Kyrie, then we unload him completely for young talent and picks. Comparing him to PG13 and Kyrie is silly, PG13 pretty much controllers his destiny really soon. Plus PG13 could have been had for a lot better but Indy got dumb.

[mplsfonz23]

Yeah why aren't the other stars who are still under contract joining the Cavs on a league minimum contract?

You are trying to twist words and get a rise out of me, so I will just say this. LBJ has screwed that team so bad wanting his own guys, he basically handcuffed the FO. If the east wasn't so bad, I doubt they would even make it to the finals. Still, don't see any stars trying to force their way into Clev, but force their way out.

One star is/has tried to force his way out...ONE...and its just this season and Lebron has been on the Cavs a total of 10 seasons. This is the only one in the 10 seasons. Not sure I would call that a pattern. Stars don't try to force their way to Cleveland because:
a) Not a destination city for NBA stars, b) Cavs can't pay them market value, c) Lebron never has/never will commit long term on his contracts as rightfully or wrongly he can as he always is looking to maintain his options, as well as put pressure on the teams Front Office to not get complacent or cheap with contracts. All of these are facts that are well known...not opinions.

So LBJ is holding the team hostage. Either way, I think, and again, I THINK players are starting to stay away from Bron and his demands for his banana boat crew.

[Asian Celtic]

I got this from a poster on our boards. I think there is no trade to be had with the two teams but what are your thoughts?

Pretty much slim to no chance our two teams make a deal but personally id be all for trading ky to you guys.

We certainly fit the bill on giving a win now vet + blue chip player on a rookie deal + a high pick for your teams needs. The problem lies on our end. PR nightmare, brad plays teamball instead of iso, fitting under the cap, a marginal upgrade for an expensive cost, and the one thing everybody says about danny that he doesn't do a losing deal.

[jbk1234]

My take on this.

There is an objective difference between the value someone has as a basketball player, and the value he represents as an (trade) asset to the team he is contracted with.

The second Kyrie leaked/made known that he wants to be traded/no longer wants to play for the Cavs, his objective market value plummeted. It also forced the new Cavs FO to start searching for trade avenues, at a time in the off-season when major FA and trade transactions/moves were already concluded.

Keeping the guy on the team won't do them much good. The more he stays, the more his trade value drops. Moreover, keeping a player on your team that does not want to be there any more has consequences, both for him and for the team as a whole. Especially if you add in the whole Lebron James aspect.

As is natural, Cleveland - being put in a bad situation - wants to extract the best it can out of this. At the same time, teams that view Kyrie as a possible/notable/worthy addition, will want to extract Kyrie for the lowest price possible. That is the norm for any and every trade negotiation in the NBA.

As expected, the trade value that Kyrie has right now is objectively much, much less than his value as a player, due to the circumstances at hand. So, I don't really think that the Cavs can reach a good deal here, given the specifics. And I don't think that the circumstances will change for the better if they decide to wait. There are a lot of unknown unknowns in that situation (injury, team chemistry, trade value sabotage by the disgruntled player, market changes etc etc).

Knowing the above, I think that the only realistic option the Cavs FO has is to try and negotiate the best available deal they can get, before the season (or even training camp) starts. And to not try to keep the player against his wishes, under no circumstances (it is impossible to get more than cents on the dollar from trading him).

Completely agree with everything but the part about Kyrie being the leaker. But either way the news would get out eventually once FOs got calls with his name on the block.

One more thing, the Cavs and rival GMs are playing chicken that the Cavs simply cannot win. First off, Kyrie's value has been dragged through the dirt with media pundits discussing his flaws ad nauseum. Yes he plays **** defense and has won less than a handful of games when without Bron. And clearly him leading a team has only amounted to being in the lottery every year.

Ppl talk about him as if he's peaked his potential. They also question his character for starting **** up despite being on contract and not being a happy camper and enjoy the LeBron ride while it lasts. If you're teammates with the great LeBron, MJ, Kobe then you're expected to take it up the butt and smile amirite?

Then there's the growing social media grumblings from their star LeBron, who they're desparately trying to placate in order stay when history has already shown us that he's not loyal (even to his BFF) and will go wherever allows him to chase after MJ's legacy. Teams know the Cavs can't risk having unhappy campers go after another chip, especially when one's as moody and passive aggressive as LeBron.

The longer the Cavs wait the more likely these deals keep getting downgraded. The Cavs are also screwed because of precedent. Jimmy Butler and PG13 are legit all NBA players better than Kyrie, but each was gotten for bags of peanuts. Cavs indeed will not get fair value, but at least they get SOMETHING unlike what they got for LeBron when he left and possibly next year as well.

I disagree that offers will only increase. You're applying a set outcome/motive to 20 different teams who made offers for Kyrie. Each one of those teams will have their own unique circumstances.

Setting that aside. if teams are low balling you, then you should at least see if you can work it out. Promise Kyrie you'll trade him for the best draft pick you can get next summer and ask him to be a good soldier this year.

Finally, if the offers are bad enough, there's really no harm in waiting. The Kings, who everybody railed on, got a player selected in the lottery that year and a lottery selection in the upcoming draft for Cousins at the deadline. They also took back no bad salary. That's objectively a better offer than what's been floated so far.

[Seabass11]

I think Boston can easily put together the best package that would both give the Cavs pieces they can use now (IT, Crowder) and then young pieces they can offer too (Tatum, Brown, picks). A combination of 2 or 3 of these would be a great return for the Cavs.

Question is does either want to make a deal with their conference rival