NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

[trickshot]

Skip Bayless
@RealSkipBayless
Looks like Jokic will win MVP. But I'll still take Embiid over Jokic. Little better shooter. Much better rim protector. Gives you power as well as finesse. Durability? OK, that goes to Jokic.

This person is making millions by commenting the sport while not knowing anything about the sport

caught his show 2 weeks ago and he was calling jokic jokovic. He doesn't even watch their games His side of the media dont have votes for a reason

[The Rebel]

Watch on YouTube

Wow, this is some strong Jokic slander. "Worst MVP of the last 30 years" "Nuggets are a bad team"

The American media is so reluctant to crown a white Euro dude from Serbia as MVP.

They are lame. Don't want to say most of them are racist, but Baizuo in sports should be the right word for them (Nick, Max, Skip...). Suppose it is not Joker, but Randle who is putting us such numbers and carrying Nuggets like this, would any of them still argue for CP3? Maybe they think those kind of opinions make them a brother among nba players
Definition of Baizuo "a sarcastic reference to those whose political opinions are perceived as being guided by emotions or a hypocritical show of selflessness and empathy"

I don't like the political implications of "baizuo". The poster below you just said he should wear a Putin shirt, and I think that misses the mark.

To be blunt:

This is racial prejudice at work, but it's not a pro-BLM or liberal prejudice. What this is, is the natural result of man of African descent dominating the NBA, and basketball fans should be aware that this isn't the first time biases like this happened, which a lot of the time it being in a pro-White or anti-Black direction.

I'll flat out say that the disturbing thing for me is not that people are skeptical of a big white Euro without great agility, but the fact that the US has basically stopped producing white basketball players of any quality. When a great white guy comes up we ask "Where's he from?" with the assumption that the answer is going to be from some other country which probably has a much weaker prospecting infrastructure. That's strange, and it's not something we should pretend doesn't exist, but it's important not to assume that there's an explicit, pre-meditated conspiracy at work.

Always what must be understood is that if enough great White (or other race) players come along, people will stop assuming Black players are better.

I agree that there is racial prejudice at work with the media, but I think the response to the media is bigger from Jokic fans because of his treatment on the court. Many hate on the response from the media because they see the way the games are reffed and think that if Jokic got more respect in the media than maybe he would get a better whistle.

While overall Jokic does not get a fair whistle it is much worse with certain refs than others. I don't know if it is personal bias, race, or xenophobia, but when you see a ref on the court than you know that white european Centers are going to have a long night (and make no mistake it is not just Jokic with some refs) there is a problem. Can the media help that? I don't know the cause but I doubt the media is going to change it.

I don't think there is a conspiracy, but I do think there is a clear problem overall with the treatment of Jokic on and off the court.


ONe thing I will say as a 6'5" white man who was a good enough athlete to have scholarship offers to division 1 schools before the injuries, there has long been pressure on white kids to play other sports. I loved basketball, my uncles were the starting guards for a team that won state 2 times, my mom went to college on a basketball scholarship, my father had scholarships for baseball and football. I played both basketball and football but I loved basketball. Everybody around town always had a comment that I should focus on football, that I was the wrong color to get a scholarship to a good school in basketball, that everybody knows white kids don't get scholarships for basketball, if I want to play basketball than I should convince my parents to move me to the ghetto. While this was in the 90s, I doubt much has changed, especially since this was at the tail end of the Bird Magic era, and Bird was one of the faces of the NBA. it is going to take a huge shift in culture before the attitudes change, 1 or 2 stars are not going to change that.

[Mickey8]

Its on Jokic to shut them up and eliminate Lakers in the first round, if they have fair refereeing unlike the last season.

[The Rebel]

Its on Jokic to shut them up and eliminate Lakers in the first round, if they have fair refereeing unlike the last season.

Can't even get a regular season game with a fair whistle, why after this last year would you think that Jokic will ever get a fair whistle?

[Mickey8]

At least some semi decent refereeing where they wouldn't send him on the bench after the couple of minutes spent on the court.

[dygaction]

You would wish Nick/Kendrick could have waited one more day to be all in on CP3. Love me some CP3 but he would be more suited to be on the second team all nba. Jokic got 32/12/6/2/2 in 29min blowing out the hottest team Knicks on its 9-1 run, quenching Randle for MVP at the same time.

I think the last "obvious and clear-cut" MPV over Giannis would be Giannis. Even thought they need to do it so reluctantly as Giannis was not their popular choice.

[Perseus1966]

Jokic is clear the MVP.

[Impuniti]

You would wish Nick/Kendrick could have waited one more day to be all in on CP3. Love me some CP3 but he would be more suited to be on the second team all nba. Jokic got 32/12/6/2/2 in 29min blowing out the hottest team Knicks on its 9-1 run, quenching Randle for MVP at the same time.

I think the last "obvious and clear-cut" MPV over Giannis would be Giannis. Even thought they need to do it so reluctantly as Giannis was not their popular choice.

[Tomjas]

The overrating of Gobert is ridiculous

I am a Sixers and Simmons fan

Simmons has a legitimate case for being DPOY but may not win

He’s clearly better than Gobert in every aspect of basketball other than defence BUT he’s also clearly not a MVP candidate

Simmons isn’t top 15

Same as Rudy

[Dutchball97]

ONe thing I will say as a 6'5" white man who was a good enough athlete to have scholarship offers to division 1 schools before the injuries, there has long been pressure on white kids to play other sports. I loved basketball, my uncles were the starting guards for a team that won state 2 times, my mom went to college on a basketball scholarship, my father had scholarships for baseball and football. I played both basketball and football but I loved basketball. Everybody around town always had a comment that I should focus on football, that I was the wrong color to get a scholarship to a good school in basketball, that everybody knows white kids don't get scholarships for basketball, if I want to play basketball than I should convince my parents to move me to the ghetto. While this was in the 90s, I doubt much has changed, especially since this was at the tail end of the Bird Magic era, and Bird was one of the faces of the NBA. it is going to take a huge shift in culture before the attitudes change, 1 or 2 stars are not going to change that.

Since Bird there hasn't really been a white American superstar player. We've seen Nash and Dirk become MVPs, now Jokic is about to win a MVP and Luka is the most promising talent in the league. We can see the problem isn't skin color, so why can white guys from South Africa, Germany, Serbia and Slovenia become stars but white guys from the US can't? I bet it stings a bit for a certain group of people who don't like their beliefs challenged. Racial stereotypes should have no place in sports or anywhere and hopefully that can happen in the near future.

[Dutchball97]

The overrating of Gobert is ridiculous

I am a Sixers and Simmons fan

Simmons has a legitimate case for being DPOY but may not win

He’s clearly better than Gobert in every aspect of basketball other than defence BUT he’s also clearly not a MVP candidate

Simmons isn’t top 15

Same as Rudy

76ers and Jazz have very similar defensive ratings. Difference is that Gobert is miles away the best defender on his team. The 76ers really are more of a comittee defense with Thybulle, Embiid and even Harris all contributing a great deal as well besides Simmons. Gobert is 5th in DBPM (in which Simmons is 8th) and leads the league in DRTG, DWS, D-RAPTOR and D-LEBRON.

Simmons should by all means make the All-Defensive team and a few mentions for DPOY wouldn't be out of place but I don't think anyone really has a strong case against Gobert this season.

[Castle Black]

MVP tings.

Read on Twitter

[bballfan1three3]

ONe thing I will say as a 6'5" white man who was a good enough athlete to have scholarship offers to division 1 schools before the injuries, there has long been pressure on white kids to play other sports. I loved basketball, my uncles were the starting guards for a team that won state 2 times, my mom went to college on a basketball scholarship, my father had scholarships for baseball and football. I played both basketball and football but I loved basketball. Everybody around town always had a comment that I should focus on football, that I was the wrong color to get a scholarship to a good school in basketball, that everybody knows white kids don't get scholarships for basketball, if I want to play basketball than I should convince my parents to move me to the ghetto. While this was in the 90s, I doubt much has changed, especially since this was at the tail end of the Bird Magic era, and Bird was one of the faces of the NBA. it is going to take a huge shift in culture before the attitudes change, 1 or 2 stars are not going to change that.

Since Bird there hasn't really been a white American superstar player. We've seen Nash and Dirk become MVPs, now Jokic is about to win a MVP and Luka is the most promising talent in the league. We can see the problem isn't skin color, so why can white guys from South Africa, Germany, Serbia and Slovenia become stars but white guys from the US can't? I bet it stings a bit for a certain group of people who don't like their beliefs challenged. Racial stereotypes should have no place in sports or anywhere and hopefully that can happen in the near future.

Nah man we eat a lot cheese in America we're fine with it. Cheese and jumping dont go well together sadly:(

[Dutchball97]

ONe thing I will say as a 6'5" white man who was a good enough athlete to have scholarship offers to division 1 schools before the injuries, there has long been pressure on white kids to play other sports. I loved basketball, my uncles were the starting guards for a team that won state 2 times, my mom went to college on a basketball scholarship, my father had scholarships for baseball and football. I played both basketball and football but I loved basketball. Everybody around town always had a comment that I should focus on football, that I was the wrong color to get a scholarship to a good school in basketball, that everybody knows white kids don't get scholarships for basketball, if I want to play basketball than I should convince my parents to move me to the ghetto. While this was in the 90s, I doubt much has changed, especially since this was at the tail end of the Bird Magic era, and Bird was one of the faces of the NBA. it is going to take a huge shift in culture before the attitudes change, 1 or 2 stars are not going to change that.

Since Bird there hasn't really been a white American superstar player. We've seen Nash and Dirk become MVPs, now Jokic is about to win a MVP and Luka is the most promising talent in the league. We can see the problem isn't skin color, so why can white guys from South Africa, Germany, Serbia and Slovenia become stars but white guys from the US can't? I bet it stings a bit for a certain group of people who don't like their beliefs challenged. Racial stereotypes should have no place in sports or anywhere and hopefully that can happen in the near future.

Nah man we eat a lot cheese in America we're fine with it. Cheese and jumping dont go well together sadly:(

Maybe cheese is the reason we don't see many Dutch guys making the league, you're on to something.

[bballfan1three3]

Since Bird there hasn't really been a white American superstar player. We've seen Nash and Dirk become MVPs, now Jokic is about to win a MVP and Luka is the most promising talent in the league. We can see the problem isn't skin color, so why can white guys from South Africa, Germany, Serbia and Slovenia become stars but white guys from the US can't? I bet it stings a bit for a certain group of people who don't like their beliefs challenged. Racial stereotypes should have no place in sports or anywhere and hopefully that can happen in the near future.

Nah man we eat a lot cheese in America we're fine with it. Cheese and jumping dont go well together sadly:(

Maybe cheese is the reason we don't see many Dutch guys making the league, you're on to something.

Cheese Boys Can't Jump

[GeorgeSears]

Whatever momentum Randle had for MVP, Jokic put that quickly to bed in the first quarter. Randle's a good player, but there's a difference between being a good player and an MVP-caliber player, we saw that last night.

Also, that 30 point blowout and 9 point performance by CP3 should pretty much end his MVP run as well. The Suns success has a lot to do with them being one of healthiest teams this year.

[pj0tr]

Also, that 30 point blowout and 9 point performance by CP3 should pretty much end his MVP run as well. The Suns success has a lot to do with them being one of healthiest teams this year.

We're really gonna act like 1 game should end someone's MVP candidacy? Really?

I don't think CP3 deserves MVP regardless over Jokic, but to make this statement after one game where the Suns were on a B2B after playing OT, and playing their 3rd game in 4 days is lunacy.

EDIT: In terms of health,

Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, Jae Crowder, and Cam Payne have all missed significant time this year for the Suns. CP3, oddly enough, has been their 3rd healthiest player all year, after Ayton and Bridges.

[dygaction]

Also, that 30 point blowout and 9 point performance by CP3 should pretty much end his MVP run as well. The Suns success has a lot to do with them being one of healthiest teams this year.

We're really gonna act like 1 game should end someone's MVP candidacy? Really?

I don't think CP3 deserves MVP regardless over Jokic, but to make this statement after one game where the Suns were on a B2B after playing OT, and playing their 3rd game in 4 days is lunacy.

EDIT: In terms of health,

Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, Jae Crowder, and Cam Payne have all missed significant time this year for the Suns. CP3, oddly enough, has been their 3rd healthiest player all year, after Ayton and Bridges.

If you agree with Jokic over CP3, this is really not a fight for you to pick up. I think GeorgeSears was talking about the espn and media screaming CP3 clear cut and obvious MVP over Jokic. That kind of propaganda alienate fan bases and create hatred toward otherwise likable and great players. That's real lunacy we talking aobut.

[pj0tr]

Also, that 30 point blowout and 9 point performance by CP3 should pretty much end his MVP run as well. The Suns success has a lot to do with them being one of healthiest teams this year.

We're really gonna act like 1 game should end someone's MVP candidacy? Really?

I don't think CP3 deserves MVP regardless over Jokic, but to make this statement after one game where the Suns were on a B2B after playing OT, and playing their 3rd game in 4 days is lunacy.

EDIT: In terms of health,

Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, Jae Crowder, and Cam Payne have all missed significant time this year for the Suns. CP3, oddly enough, has been their 3rd healthiest player all year, after Ayton and Bridges.

If you agree with Jokic over CP3, this is really not a fight for you to pick up. I think GeorgeSears was talking about the espn and media screaming CP3 clear cut and obvious MVP over Jokic. That kind of propaganda alienate fan bases and create hatred toward otherwise likable and great players. That's real lunacy we talking aobut.

I agree with it completely. Jokic is the favorite, and really his only competition is Embiid and CP3, but Embiid has missed too many games, and Paul statistically is beaten by Jokic in every category.

The Paul thing is very lazy by many analysts, because people forget that the Suns played mostly .500+ ball last year before the bubble after Ayton returned from the 25 game suspension.

Frankly, if Ayton wasn't suspended the Suns make the playoffs easily last year over Portland, without even needing the bubble.

The Suns were mostly an up and coming young team already, Paul just accelerated their growth. That alone though isn't an MVP case.

[Doctor MJ]

The overrating of Gobert is ridiculous

I am a Sixers and Simmons fan

Simmons has a legitimate case for being DPOY but may not win

He’s clearly better than Gobert in every aspect of basketball other than defence BUT he’s also clearly not a MVP candidate

Simmons isn’t top 15

Same as Rudy

So I gotta say:

I'm seeing a lot of people talk in this direction and to me it seems like it's based on an approach that just ignores actual impact.

I don't think you're crazy if you think Simmons more well-rounded defense (let alone more well-rounded game) is preferable for team building, but in terms of the season's DPOY, I'm not aware of any impact metric that doesn't put Gobert way, way ahead of Simmons.