NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[Special_Puppy]

What's the case for Luka over Jokic+Embiid+Giannis+SGA? His team is much worse than all of theirs (shouldn't matter but it does sadly). He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level.

[Jamaaliver]

Interesting stat but pace of play dependent. The 3 guys at the top play on teams that score a ton and allow a ton.

That is the case for
every
single
counting stat.

In every single sport.

For all time...

[Wolfgang630]

What's the case for Luka over Jokic+Embiid+Giannis+SGA? His team is much worse than all of theirs (shouldn't matter but it does sadly). He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level.

There is no case. The Mavs are the 7th seed.

[Jaqua92]

On a night when 1a and 1b both go off - the board pretty quiet

I mean Jokic had a stat line that Embiid usually has through 3 quarters and struggled to put way an under .500 team.

Giannis barely beat the pitiful Spurs.

Neither game should have been close.

BUT when Embiid dominates bad teams so badly that he sits the entire 4th quarter, it's "let me know when he plays somebody."

Am I doing this thing right?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Well said...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

When has Embiid had 34/9/10 on 13/16 shooting in 3 quarters?

There's nothing well said about that comment.

[dygaction]

Wins aren't everything when it's marginal, it's not some astronomical numbers that Shai has over Embiid in the wins department. Embiid is more efficient, adding more blocks, points, and boards, and basically equal assists. What part of his statistical profile is worse? Steals, that's it...Even there, Embiid is averaging 1.2 spg.

Embiid currently is having one of the most statistically significant seasons in NBA history, yes better than SGA...

The most efficient season of all time, by a large margin

Read on Twitter

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Even Joker thinks he's amazing!

Read on Twitter

Bill Simmons thinks he's better than Shaq this year if only counting the regular season...

Read on Twitter

Now advance stats matter ok. After you **** talk stats the last 3 years

Advanced stats are a component. (I never said they didn't matter, just said they were not the end all and be all, and the only thing that should be looked at). Not only does Embiid have the advanced stats, he has the raw stats too. He's also winning at an unprecedented rate when he plays.

Please stop flooding the board with those philly homer tweets. You can help digest some useful information as to us you are more trustworthy than them. Otherwise it will be garbage in garbage out.

[XtremeDunkz]

I mean Jokic had a stat line that Embiid usually has through 3 quarters and struggled to put way an under .500 team.

Giannis barely beat the pitiful Spurs.

Neither game should have been close.

BUT when Embiid dominates bad teams so badly that he sits the entire 4th quarter, it's "let me know when he plays somebody."

Am I doing this thing right?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Well said...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

When has Embiid had 34/9/10 on 13/16 shooting in 3 quarters?

There's nothing well said about that comment.

Sorry Embiid had 31/15/10

[Cubbies2120]

Well said...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

When has Embiid had 34/9/10 on 13/16 shooting in 3 quarters?

There's nothing well said about that comment.

Sorry Embiid had 31/15/10

"Usually has through 3 quarters" - Y'all love using that 3 quarters phrase, because that suits the narrative (Embiid plays full 1st + 3rd quarter, which means by end of quarter 3 he has played more minutes than Jokic has by end of quarter 3 typically).

https://nbarotations.info/player/203999
https://nbarotations.info/player/203954

Luckily we are intelligent enough to look at context
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 32 minutes played for Embiid
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 30 minutes played for Jokic

Sounds a lot less impressive that way, eh?

I do love that Embiid is copying Jokic's playstyle now, turns out the Jokic prototype is changing the way the game is played. Embiid's triple doubles have skyrocketed since he saw the success Jokic has had.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[XtremeDunkz]

When has Embiid had 34/9/10 on 13/16 shooting in 3 quarters?

There's nothing well said about that comment.

Sorry Embiid had 31/15/10

"Usually has through 3 quarters" - Y'all love using that 3 quarters phrase, because that suits the narrative (Embiid plays full 1st + 3rd quarter, which means by end of quarter 3 he has played more minutes than Jokic has by end of quarter 3 typically).

https://nbarotations.info/player/203999
https://nbarotations.info/player/203954

Luckily we are intelligent enough to look at context
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 32 minutes played for Embiid
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 30 minutes played for Jokic

Sounds a lot less impressive that way, eh?

I do love that Embiid is copying Jokic's playstyle now, turns out the Jokic prototype is changing the way the game is played. Embiid's triple doubles have skyrocketed since he saw the success Jokic has had.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

You wrote all that to try and say an extra 2 minutes is why Embiid does what he does...2 minutes? God I remember why I don't visit this board often anymore lol. Jokic played 38 minutes to get those stats last night btw

[Baz]

What's the case for Luka over Jokic+Embiid+Giannis+SGA? His team is much worse than all of theirs (shouldn't matter but it does sadly). He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level.

"His team is much worse than all of theirs"
Yeah, exactly. That's the case. They can't win without him.

And still, they're 20-12 with him. 0-3 without. In a tough Western Conference. He has to play 40 minutes a night.

"He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level" Only Luka and one other player in NBA history have scored 50 points and 15 assists in a game. Which he did the other night. Luka Doncic averaged 37.5 points, 11.1 assists and 8.9 rebounds in 13 games last month. 8 wins and 5 losses. Other than Embiid, nobody was putting up crazy numbers close to that last month. While constantly being doubled and hit, and barely getting to the line. And yet, he's falling in the ladder. Being 5th in the race and out of the conversation is telling. The league doesn't want him to be on the Mavs. The writing is on the wall. He has to go somewhere else if he wants to win anything, even at an individual level. They don't even put him on national TV much anymore. If the Most Valuable Player award was true to his name, he'd be it. The Mavs are 7th in the West. OKC were 6th in the West when Westbrook won the MVP. But because he's 7th, he's out of the conversation. That's a violation, I guess.

For the record, I got Luka moving between 2 and 3 with Jokic behind Embiid, although the Sixers don't look too uncomfortable without him which could hurt his case, & the Nuggets won their only game without Jokic so far this season. Clearly none of these teams win a championship without their MVP level guys, but I do think Luka has the biggest impact and is the biggest loss for his team when he's out.

[AleksandarN]

Sorry Embiid had 31/15/10

"Usually has through 3 quarters" - Y'all love using that 3 quarters phrase, because that suits the narrative (Embiid plays full 1st + 3rd quarter, which means by end of quarter 3 he has played more minutes than Jokic has by end of quarter 3 typically).

https://nbarotations.info/player/203999
https://nbarotations.info/player/203954

Luckily we are intelligent enough to look at context
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 32 minutes played for Embiid
"End of 3rd quarter" usually means 30 minutes played for Jokic

Sounds a lot less impressive that way, eh?

I do love that Embiid is copying Jokic's playstyle now, turns out the Jokic prototype is changing the way the game is played. Embiid's triple doubles have skyrocketed since he saw the success Jokic has had.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

You wrote all that to try and say an extra 2 minutes is why Embiid does what he does...2 minutes? God I remember why I don't visit this board often anymore lol. Jokic played 38 minutes to get those stats last night btw

Funny you make it sound like Embiid gets so many triple doubles in 3 quarters of play. How many triple doubles does Embiid have again this year? Or better yet how many does he have for his career?

[yannisk]

For the last 3 years the mvp thread is 2-3 guys making a case for Embiid full time. I mean we are all fans but this is becoming an obsession

[scrabbarista]

For the last 3 years the mvp thread is 2-3 guys making a case for Embiid full time. I mean we are all fans but this is becoming an obsession

Becoming?

[dygaction]

What's the case for Luka over Jokic+Embiid+Giannis+SGA? His team is much worse than all of theirs (shouldn't matter but it does sadly). He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level.

"His team is much worse than all of theirs"
Yeah, exactly. That's the case. They can't win without him.

And still, they're 20-12 with him. 0-3 without. In a tough Western Conference. He has to play 40 minutes a night.

"He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level" Only Luka and one other player in NBA history have scored 50 points and 15 assists in a game. Which he did the other night. Luka Doncic averaged 37.5 points, 11.1 assists and 8.9 rebounds in 13 games last month. 8 wins and 5 losses. Other than Embiid, nobody was putting up crazy numbers close to that last month. While constantly being doubled and hit, and barely getting to the line. And yet, he's falling in the ladder. Being 5th in the race and out of the conversation is telling. The league doesn't want him to be on the Mavs. The writing is on the wall. He has to go somewhere else if he wants to win anything, even at an individual level. They don't even put him on national TV much anymore. If the Most Valuable Player award was true to his name, he'd be it. The Mavs are 7th in the West. OKC were 6th in the West when Westbrook won the MVP. But because he's 7th, he's out of the conversation. That's a violation, I guess.

For the record, I got Luka moving between 2 and 3 with Jokic behind Embiid, although the Sixers don't look too uncomfortable without him which could hurt his case, & the Nuggets won their only game without Jokic so far this season. Clearly none of these teams win a championship without their MVP level guys, but I do think Luka has the biggest impact and is the biggest loss for his team when he's out.

I am all for Luka but this is different from Westbrook year. That year Westbrook was #1 in scoring, 31.6ppg vs. 2nd place Harden @29.1, together with triple double season. #1 in BPM 30.6 (2nd Kawhi 27.6), PER, and VORP. Played in 81 games and even peaked his 3pt shooting @.343%. Him playing like that this year would not be enough. The top talents this year are performing too much better than 2017 on great teams.

[QPR]

There was also the narrative of OKC losing KD that helped Westbrook's case. He was basically a one man show in getting them into the playoffs.

[CharityStripe34]

For the last 3 years the mvp thread is 2-3 guys making a case for Embiid full time. I mean we are all fans but this is becoming an obsession

It's like a 4-year conversation all at the same coffee table. Who's making the next pot? Entertaining as hell nonetheless.

[eyeatoma]

I mean Jokic had a stat line that Embiid usually has through 3 quarters and struggled to put way an under .500 team.

Giannis barely beat the pitiful Spurs.

Neither game should have been close.

BUT when Embiid dominates bad teams so badly that he sits the entire 4th quarter, it's "let me know when he plays somebody."

Am I doing this thing right?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Well said...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

When has Embiid had 34/9/10 on 13/16 shooting in 3 quarters?

There's nothing well said about that comment.

Lol he dropped a triple double his last game in three quarters. 31/15/10...



Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

Now advance stats matter ok. After you **** talk stats the last 3 years

Advanced stats are a component. (I never said they didn't matter, just said they were not the end all and be all, and the only thing that should be looked at). Not only does Embiid have the advanced stats, he has the raw stats too. He's also winning at an unprecedented rate when he plays.

Please stop flooding the board with those philly homer tweets. You can help digest some useful information as to us you are more trustworthy than them. Otherwise it will be garbage in garbage out.

Come on bro, just because it comes from a Philly source doesn't mean there is bias in there.

Also, last two sources are Jokic and BIll Simmons...

[CobraCommander]

For the last 3 years the mvp thread is 2-3 guys making a case for Embiid full time. I mean we are all fans but this is becoming an obsession

Becoming?

It’s being studied by Harvard medical and may be classified as a “condition” by years end…

[CobraCommander]

What's the case for Luka over Jokic+Embiid+Giannis+SGA? His team is much worse than all of theirs (shouldn't matter but it does sadly). He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level.

"His team is much worse than all of theirs"
Yeah, exactly. That's the case. They can't win without him.

And still, they're 20-12 with him. 0-3 without. In a tough Western Conference. He has to play 40 minutes a night.

"He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level" Only Luka and one other player in NBA history have scored 50 points and 15 assists in a game. Which he did the other night. Luka Doncic averaged 37.5 points, 11.1 assists and 8.9 rebounds in 13 games last month. 8 wins and 5 losses. Other than Embiid, nobody was putting up crazy numbers close to that last month. While constantly being doubled and hit, and barely getting to the line. And yet, he's falling in the ladder. Being 5th in the race and out of the conversation is telling. The league doesn't want him to be on the Mavs. The writing is on the wall. He has to go somewhere else if he wants to win anything, even at an individual level. They don't even put him on national TV much anymore. If the Most Valuable Player award was true to his name, he'd be it. The Mavs are 7th in the West. OKC were 6th in the West when Westbrook won the MVP. But because he's 7th, he's out of the conversation. That's a violation, I guess.

For the record, I got Luka moving between 2 and 3 with Jokic behind Embiid, although the Sixers don't look too uncomfortable without him which could hurt his case, & the Nuggets won their only game without Jokic so far this season. Clearly none of these teams win a championship without their MVP level guys, but I do think Luka has the biggest impact and is the biggest loss for his team when he's out.

I am all for Luka but this is different from Westbrook year. That year Westbrook was #1 in scoring, 31.6ppg vs. 2nd place Harden @29.1, together with triple double season. #1 in BPM 30.6 (2nd Kawhi 27.6), PER, and VORP. Played in 81 games and even peaked his 3pt shooting @.343%. Him playing like that this year would not be enough. The top talents this year are performing too much better than 2017 on great teams.

Everyone loves Luka - he may get an MVP soon. But this year isn’t that year -

jokic and Embiid are clearly playing better on better teams.

Giannis has had a better big historic game- and is playing at least as well.

SGA and Luka fighting for 4th right now with both of them having a strong case for an MVP any year but this damn year.


Jokic just played the role of a guard and took the ball from 50’ on the inbounds and drove to 30 and buried a 3 to win a game on the road against the GSW to complete a double digit comeback. And that was the play they drew up ?! The center to play guard at 50 feet out with 3 seconds to go.

That’s F***king insane-

I can’t think of another center in the history of earth that could or even would be asked to do that -

Not one…

That’s the shot dame, Curry, MJ, Kobe takes -

While Lebron looks for the right play/pass or shot -

And any other big man isn’t even in the action -

[dygaction]

"His team is much worse than all of theirs"
Yeah, exactly. That's the case. They can't win without him.

And still, they're 20-12 with him. 0-3 without. In a tough Western Conference. He has to play 40 minutes a night.

"He isn't really outplaying them on an individual level" Only Luka and one other player in NBA history have scored 50 points and 15 assists in a game. Which he did the other night. Luka Doncic averaged 37.5 points, 11.1 assists and 8.9 rebounds in 13 games last month. 8 wins and 5 losses. Other than Embiid, nobody was putting up crazy numbers close to that last month. While constantly being doubled and hit, and barely getting to the line. And yet, he's falling in the ladder. Being 5th in the race and out of the conversation is telling. The league doesn't want him to be on the Mavs. The writing is on the wall. He has to go somewhere else if he wants to win anything, even at an individual level. They don't even put him on national TV much anymore. If the Most Valuable Player award was true to his name, he'd be it. The Mavs are 7th in the West. OKC were 6th in the West when Westbrook won the MVP. But because he's 7th, he's out of the conversation. That's a violation, I guess.

For the record, I got Luka moving between 2 and 3 with Jokic behind Embiid, although the Sixers don't look too uncomfortable without him which could hurt his case, & the Nuggets won their only game without Jokic so far this season. Clearly none of these teams win a championship without their MVP level guys, but I do think Luka has the biggest impact and is the biggest loss for his team when he's out.

I am all for Luka but this is different from Westbrook year. That year Westbrook was #1 in scoring, 31.6ppg vs. 2nd place Harden @29.1, together with triple double season. #1 in BPM 30.6 (2nd Kawhi 27.6), PER, and VORP. Played in 81 games and even peaked his 3pt shooting @.343%. Him playing like that this year would not be enough. The top talents this year are performing too much better than 2017 on great teams.

Everyone loves Luka - he may get an MVP soon. But this year isn’t that year -

jokic and Embiid are clearly playing better on better teams.

Giannis has had a better big historic game- and is playing at least as well.

SGA and Luka fighting for 4th right now with both of them having a strong case for an MVP any year but this damn year.


Jokic just played the role of a guard and took the ball from 50’ on the inbounds and drove to 30 and buried a 3 to win a game on the road against the GSW to complete a double digit comeback. And that was the play they drew up ?! The center to play guard at 50 feet out with 3 seconds to go.

That’s F***king insane-

I can’t think of another center in the history of earth that could or even would be asked to do that -

Not one…

That’s the shot dame, Curry, MJ, Kobe takes -

While Lebron looks for the right play/pass or shot -

And any other big man isn’t even in the action -

Nah, I don't see how SGA is not top 2 if you are not biased on previous seasons or history. He is having the same efficiency .643TS% with Embiid .650TS% and Giannis .650 as a guard, played in all their 23 wins, top 3 in all PER/WS/48/BPM/VORP.
If you are claiming Jokic and Embiid are playing better on better teams, they should have better record, but they don't. That tells you at least one "better" does not stand.