2014 NBA Playoffs: Toronto Raptors (3) vs Brooklyn Nets (6)

[therealbig3]

All the little pot shots at KG, and people are ignoring that he's actually been really good this series. His minutes are being restricted like crazy, but in the minutes he plays, he's such a defensive force, even at his age. He's been helpful offensively too these last couple of games.

Letting Jonas have the best playoff debut by a centre since 85 is being a defensive force?

The Nets are INSANELY improved with KG on the court vs off the court over these 3 games. Their offense is at a 114.8 ORating with him on the court, vs a 101.8 ORating with him off the court. The defense is a 98.1 DRating with him on the court vs a 110.4 DRating off the court. He improves the Nets tremendously on both sides of the ball. He's also a net +19 through these 3 games.

And Jonas is also averaging 4.3 TOpg.

[Prokorov]

All the little pot shots at KG, and people are ignoring that he's actually been really good this series. His minutes are being restricted like crazy, but in the minutes he plays, he's such a defensive force, even at his age. He's been helpful offensively too these last couple of games.

Letting Jonas have the best playoff debut by a centre since 85 is being a defensive force?

The Nets are INSANELY improved with KG on the court vs off the court over these 3 games. Their offense is at a 114.8 ORating with him on the court, vs a 101.8 ORating with him off the court. The defense is a 98.1 DRating with him on the court vs a 110.4 DRating off the court. He improves the Nets tremendously on both sides of the ball. He's also a net +19 through these 3 games.

And Jonas is also averaging 4.3 TOpg.

On/Off numbers are a team stat not an individual stat. and a really bad way to evaluate and individual's impact. its not bad for 5 man units, but when KG is out, alot of the times JJ/Dwill/Pierce are out as well. and like 100% of the time KG is on the floor, its with those 3 guys.

those numbers have more to do with KG playing alongside our best 3 guys, then it does KG himself.

the guy is done. he has little left.

the nets red hot run in march/april with garnett not playing due to injury goes to show his impact is overstated. and that was like a 20 game sample, so nothing to dismiss.

KG isnt an above average player anymore.

[WhateverBro]

On/Off numbers are a team stat not an individual stat. and a really bad way to evaluate and individual's impact. its not bad for 5 man units, but when KG is out, alot of the times JJ/Dwill/Pierce are out as well. and like 100% of the time KG is on the floor, its with those 3 guys.

those numbers have more to do with KG playing alongside our best 3 guys, then it does KG himself.

the guy is done. he has little left.

the nets red hot run in march/april with garnett not playing due to injury goes to show his impact is overstated. and that was like a 20 game sample, so nothing to dismiss.

KG isnt an above average player anymore.

You're clearly wrong. The numbers has been this way every single year of his career, he's a DOMINANT defender, even today. You dismiss the numbers provided by therealbig3 by saying it's because he plays with the other starters.. Two things; he usually plays AGAINST the starters too, so you'd have to account for that in your analysis. And 2nd of all, what about adjusted +/- ? Garnett measured out as the 2nd best defender in the league, only trailing Larry Sanders who played like 20 games this year.

I'm sorry but you're just clearly off on your opinion. There's literally NOTHING that suggets Garnett isn't a dominant defender anymore. It's literally no evidence for it, it's just your opinion. Which means very little when there are ways to measure defensive impact in todays league.

[Prokorov]

On/Off numbers are a team stat not an individual stat. and a really bad way to evaluate and individual's impact. its not bad for 5 man units, but when KG is out, alot of the times JJ/Dwill/Pierce are out as well. and like 100% of the time KG is on the floor, its with those 3 guys.

those numbers have more to do with KG playing alongside our best 3 guys, then it does KG himself.

the guy is done. he has little left.

the nets red hot run in march/april with garnett not playing due to injury goes to show his impact is overstated. and that was like a 20 game sample, so nothing to dismiss.

KG isnt an above average player anymore.

You're clearly wrong. The numbers has been this way every single year of his career, he's a DOMINANT defender, even today. You dismiss the numbers provided by therealbig3 by saying it's because he plays with the other starters.. Two things; he usually plays AGAINST the starters too, so you'd have to account for that in your analysis. And 2nd of all, what about adjusted +/- ? Garnett measured out as the 2nd best defender in the league, only trailing Larry Sanders who played like 20 games this year.

I'm sorry but you're just clearly off on your opinion. There's literally NOTHING that suggets Garnett isn't a dominant defender anymore. It's literally no evidence for it, it's just your opinion. Which means very little when there are ways to measure defensive impact in todays league.

you pointing out he also plays against the other teams starters only strengthens what im saying. there are 9 other guys on the floor when garnett is on it, and when he comes off, some of those other 9 guys come off the floor as well. it is simply a bad way to measure individual performance, because there are too many variables and every teams rotations are different.

he was good for a 6 week stretch, outside of that he has been average defensively. and in the playoffs he has been one of our worst players. he has gotten 2 silly technicals, he cant defend without fouling, and outside of a stretch in game 2, he has been terrible on offense.

we arent better off without him, only because the alternatives arent great either, but to say he has been any kind of force in this series is idiotic. if we got any kind of good play from the Center spot, we'd be cruising

[WhateverBro]

you pointing out he also plays against the other teams starters only strengthens what im saying. there are 9 other guys on the floor when garnett is on it, and when he comes off, some of those other 9 guys come off the floor as well. it is simply a bad way to measure individual performance, because there are too many variables and every teams rotations are different.

he was good for a 6 week stretch, outside of that he has been average defensively. and in the playoffs he has been one of our worst players. he has gotten 2 silly technicals, he cant defend without fouling, and outside of a stretch in game 2, he has been terrible on offense.

we arent better off without him, only because the alternatives arent great either, but to say he has been any kind of force in this series is idiotic. if we got any kind of good play from the Center spot, we'd be cruising

Wtf? No, it doesn't strengthen your argument. He's facing other teams starters, that should HURT his + and make the drop off smaller to when the time he's off considering the bench is also facing the other teams bench. You would have an argument if KG only played with starters, against the other teams bench. But he doesn't.

You're just clearly wrong. Ever since the new year, he's been dominant defensively. The numbers are there. Why are you dismissing the numbers? Look at the raw on / off numbers. Look at his drtg. Look at the adjusted +/- , where he's SECOND in the league. And that stat adjusts for lineups etc. I don't understand how you can't see his dominance defensively, it's clear as day when he's on the floor. His defense has been amazing ever since he moved to center, which is his natural position at this point. You're clearly missing something because the numbers simply don't support your argument and the eye test doesn't either, he's the vocal leader and making sure everybody is in their places defensively, he's contesting shots, and defending the pick-n-roll excellent. His help defense is also great. It's business as usual defensively for KG.

[therealbig3]

Prokorov, I don't understand why you try so hard to change my opinion on this. You're not going to convince me.

It's just obvious to me that he's still a great defender and one of the biggest reasons why the Nets are up 2-1 right now. And you have literally zero evidence to the contrary outside of your eye test, which is as subjective as it gets.

Not everyone agrees with you that on/off is useless, especially not when it's a consistent theme throughout the year.

[Prokorov]

Prokorov, I don't understand why you try so hard to change my opinion on this. You're not going to convince me.

It's just obvious to me that he's still a great defender and one of the biggest reasons why the Nets are up 2-1 right now. And you have literally zero evidence to the contrary outside of your eye test, which is as subjective as it gets.

Not everyone agrees with you that on/off is useless, especially not when it's a consistent theme throughout the year.

fair enough, agree to disagree. also i dont think on/off is useless, i just thinks its bad for evalating individuals. the example i always like to bring up is reggie evans last year. no one will argue Reggie is a great offensive player, yet last year we were SIGNIFICANTLY better offensively with him on the court. but it wasnt because of him, its cause he played 90% of his minutes next to brook/jj/dwill.

as far as KG goes, i dont know how anyone can watch this series and say he has been anywhere close to dominating defensively.

[dr3am]

Joe Johnson shooting 61% in this series

[canballer]

Joe Johnson shooting 61% in this series

He's been shooting great but DD has also been showing him the red carpet to the paint.

[turtlesnjoi]

Have a feeling the Raptors blow them out tonight and take control of the series, I'm usually never wrong.

[Next Coming]

Raptors just playing Trophies in the locker room. We ready.

[irie]

Joe Johnson shooting 61% in this series

Pierce 39%, yikes.

[canballer]

For those interested. JJ through first 3.

[irie]

Have a feeling the Raptors blow them out tonight and take control of the series, I'm usually never wrong.

Being tied 2-2 is in control of the series?

[TheRealistGM]

Man I love me some Omar but the intros he has done were weak

[xBulletproof]

Have a feeling the Raptors blow them out tonight and take control of the series, I'm usually never wrong.

Being tied 2-2 is in control of the series?

That's how the playoffs work among fans. Whoever won the last game is in control.

[dr3am]

Raps off to a good start

[Meeksology]

Lets go raaaaps

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[BK nets BK]

Nets looking like ****

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[Meeksology]

Wooooow lowry

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