2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[B-easy]

USAGE Embiid - 36.7%, Giannis - 35.4% , Jokic 31.7%. This seems pretty important.

[Infinite Llamas]

Anything over 30 will always be high usage, but Jokic doing it with less possessions than the other top guys is a marvel. He dominates the game with his passing as he gets plenty of hockey assists that lower his usage. Just amazing to see a man dominate so much with just 9 field goal attempts.

[Sgt Major]

He dominates the game with his passing as he gets plenty of hockey assists that lower his usage. Just amazing to see a man dominate so much with just 9 field goal attempts.

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Unreal stuff

[eathb_au]

I don't get the reason why Embiid is over Giannis. Embiid is not having better impact or stats and his team are not better than Bucks. Why he is over Giannis?

Jokic's case is simple, his team only %5 W/L rate behind Bucks and has much better impact and numbers.

The Sixers have a better record than the Bucks. The Sixers also have the without Ben Simmons narrative that I think people are underrating.

Embiid is the only serious MVP contender without an MVP trophy. They could conceivably crown him here over the others just on that reason alone because the others(Antetokkounmpo, Curry, Jokic, James) have had better seasons on better teams and were rewarded for them.

I know it has happened in the past but this is such a lame way to give an MVP award. I mean you should never give a guy an award on the basis that he has never won it in the past.

Personally, I get the team record argument if the frontrunners individual performances are close. But IMO, Jokic has very clearly been the best player in the league this season. His numbers are unheard of and history books stuff.

[Wolfgang630]

The media will want to give it to Joel to reward him since he doesn’t have an MVP. Plus he’s an easy injury away from not being at this level.

[Hussien Fatal]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

[Dutchball97]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Embiid not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

[Duke4life831]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

Is he really though?

29ppg on 53 eFG% and 61 TS%
vs
26ppg on 62 eFG% and 65 TS%

Not sure the 3 more ppg makes him that much more better of a scorer when Jokic has the significant advantages in efficiency. Jokic is also the far superior passer. He is also the better rebounder out of the two.

Then if we were to look at some other things.

On/Off:
Embiid: +10.9
Jokic: +22.2

Net Rating:
Embiid: +8.0
Jokic: +11.1

RAPM:
Embiid: +2.87
Jokic: +3.79

Jokic also leads in other stats like BPM, WS/48, PER and so on.

Dont get me wrong Embiid is having a hell of a season. But most stats point to Jokic having the better season and at the moment the Nuggets are only 2 games behind the 6ers, so it's not like team success is so drastic that makes the MVP Embiid's to lose.

[Hussien Fatal]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Jokic not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Joel is BY FAR the better scorer. Joel is the best per minute scorer in NBA history. He averages 29.3 ppg per 36 minutes for his career which is the best in NBA history. Also Jokic for his career 19ppg Joel 25.4ppg for his career. This season Jokic averages 28.5ppg per 36 while Joel averages 32ppg per 36 this season. In 14 games in January Embiid is averaging 32mpg but 34ppg. Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. You Jokic fan boys must be smoking some heavy stuff to think he’s in the same ball park as Embiid as a scorer. It’s not even close. Joel is likely to win mvp and lead the league in scoring.

And stop bringing up Jokic’s defense like he’s a DPOTY Candidate because he isn’t but Joel is. Joel makes an all defensive team every season let me know when Jokic makes an all defensive team.

[Hussien Fatal]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Jokic not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

My god I can’t believe there are Jokic fans that think he’s a better scorer than the best per minute scorer in NBA history. Just crazy

Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Joel is in a different league as far as scoring goes. 26 points for Embiid is a BAD GAME. Jokic averages 26. Joel will lead the league in scoring no doubt about it. Also defensively it isn’t close Joel makes thrall defensive team every season Jokic won’t sniff an all defensive team. He can not anchor a defense while averaging .8 blocks.

Joel has averaged 32mpg in January scoring 34ppg.
Jokic in January is at 34ppg scoring 27ppg. Scoring isnt close!

[Mickey8]

Jokic could score as much as Embiid but he can influence the game without scoring as much and Embiid is the whistle friendly player who shoots many free throws per game , also he takes lots of shots but he's not the most efficient player, his averages are higher because of the free throw attempts.

[Dutchball97]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Jokic not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Joel is BY FAR the better scorer. Joel is the best per minute scorer in NBA history. He averages 29.3 ppg per 36 minutes for his career which is the best in NBA history. Also Jokic for his career 19ppg Joel 25.4ppg for his career. This season Jokic averages 28.5ppg per 36 while Joel averages 32ppg per 36 this season. In 14 games in January Embiid is averaging 32mpg but 34ppg. Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. You Jokic fan boys must be smoking some heavy stuff to think he’s in the same ball park as Embiid as a scorer. It’s not even close. Joel is likely to win mvp and lead the league in scoring.

And stop bringing up Jokic’s defense like he’s a DPOTY Candidate because he isn’t but Joel is. Joel makes an all defensive team every season let me know when Jokic makes an all defensive team.

Let me know when you can talk about Embiid in terms of full seasons instead of 15 game stretches. I won't go into why they're similar scorers with Jokic arguably even having an advantage on that front since Duke4life just debunked you on that perfectly in the post above you.

As to the defense you're still grasping at straws. We all know Embiid is a better defender than Jokic but you're bringing up accolades earned in previous seasons when we're comparing their defense at this moment. Right now the 76ers have a marginally better defensive rating than the Nuggets (109 against 109.8) and Embiid is unlikely to make the All-Defensive team this year due to Gobert and Allen. Can't you even see how Embiid hasn't been able to spend as much energy on defense than in previous years due to him needing to carry the team on offense without Simmons?

[Hussien Fatal]

Joel out tonight for rest. He can’t have too many more of these REST games if he wants to continue being the favorite to win MVP. But Joel over his last 8 games he’s averaging 37ppg 11.8rpg and 4.5apg so he has earned this one rest day. But he realistically can’t miss anymore than 2 or 3 more games if he wants to win MVP.

[Hussien Fatal]

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Jokic not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Joel is BY FAR the better scorer. Joel is the best per minute scorer in NBA history. He averages 29.3 ppg per 36 minutes for his career which is the best in NBA history. Also Jokic for his career 19ppg Joel 25.4ppg for his career. This season Jokic averages 28.5ppg per 36 while Joel averages 32ppg per 36 this season. In 14 games in January Embiid is averaging 32mpg but 34ppg. Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. You Jokic fan boys must be smoking some heavy stuff to think he’s in the same ball park as Embiid as a scorer. It’s not even close. Joel is likely to win mvp and lead the league in scoring.

And stop bringing up Jokic’s defense like he’s a DPOTY Candidate because he isn’t but Joel is. Joel makes an all defensive team every season let me know when Jokic makes an all defensive team.

Let me know when you can talk about Embiid in terms of full seasons instead of 15 game stretches. I won't go into why they're similar scorers with Jokic arguably even having an advantage on that front since Duke4life just debunked you on that perfectly in the post above you.

As to the defense you're still grasping at straws. We all know Embiid is a better defender than Jokic but you're bringing up accolades earned in previous seasons when we're comparing their defense at this moment. Right now the 76ers have a marginally better defensive rating than the Nuggets (109 against 109.8) and Embiid is unlikely to make the All-Defensive team this year due to Gobert and Allen. Can't you even see how Embiid hasn't been able to spend as much energy on defense than in previous years due to him needing to carry the team on offense without Simmons?

Lol I wasn’t debunked. Only Jokic fans think he’s a better scorer than Joel Embiid. I’m not even going to entertain this argument any more because everybody casuals and hardcore fans know Embiid is by far the more potent scorer and it isn’t particularly close. Only centers in NBA history that are close to Embiid as a scorer are Kareem, Wilt, Shaq and Drob that it and even those players couldn’t shoot like Embiid.

[Hussien Fatal]

Are you trying to convince yourself? Because you're not convincing anyone else with these basic arguments and delusions. Better and more dangerous scorer based on what? Nothing. You straight up deny the evidence of the defensive difference being smaller this year due to both Jokic improving massively on the defensive end and Jokic not being able to spend as much energy on defense due to the huge offensive load he's carrying without Simmons and you're still obsessed with equating team wins with individual performance except for when someone else has a better win% than Embiid because then it doesn't matter.

Looking forward to you posting the same thing again tomorrow.

Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. Joel is BY FAR the better scorer. Joel is the best per minute scorer in NBA history. He averages 29.3 ppg per 36 minutes for his career which is the best in NBA history. Also Jokic for his career 19ppg Joel 25.4ppg for his career. This season Jokic averages 28.5ppg per 36 while Joel averages 32ppg per 36 this season. In 14 games in January Embiid is averaging 32mpg but 34ppg. Let me know when Jokic has a 15 game stretch where he scores more points than minutes played by a wide margin. You Jokic fan boys must be smoking some heavy stuff to think he’s in the same ball park as Embiid as a scorer. It’s not even close. Joel is likely to win mvp and lead the league in scoring.

And stop bringing up Jokic’s defense like he’s a DPOTY Candidate because he isn’t but Joel is. Joel makes an all defensive team every season let me know when Jokic makes an all defensive team.

Let me know when you can talk about Embiid in terms of full seasons instead of 15 game stretches. I won't go into why they're similar scorers with Jokic arguably even having an advantage on that front since Duke4life just debunked you on that perfectly in the post above you.

As to the defense you're still grasping at straws. We all know Embiid is a better defender than Jokic but you're bringing up accolades earned in previous seasons when we're comparing their defense at this moment. Right now the 76ers have a marginally better defensive rating than the Nuggets (109 against 109.8) and Embiid is unlikely to make the All-Defensive team this year due to Gobert and Allen. Can't you even see how Embiid hasn't been able to spend as much energy on defense than in previous years due to him needing to carry the team on offense without Simmons?

Even though Embiid has to spend most his energy on offense he still makes ridiculous defensive plays on the regular. While he has upped his workload on offense he has still remained an elite defensive player and annually he is a top 10 defender. Giannis and Embiid are the two best Two way players this league has to offer both are elite on both sides of the ball. Jokic can’t say the same. He will never be a legit two way player EVER.

[Sharkboy242]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

If you take the net difference in assists, Jokic adds more points to his team than Embiid does.

1 assist = 2 points at least, in case you weren't aware, since all you do is cling to PPG since its your only argument.

[Hussien Fatal]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

If you take the net difference in assists, Jokic adds more points to his team than Embiid does.

1 assist = 2 points at least, in case you weren't aware, since all you do is cling to PPG since its your only argument.

What does assist have to do with individual scoring? Lol are you lost?

[Infinite Llamas]

Dennis Schröder is averaging 14.8 ppg just like Chris Paul so Schröder is just as good of a scorer based on the logic here.

Ridiculous.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Joel out tonight for rest. He can’t have too many more of these REST games if he wants to continue being the favorite to win MVP. But Joel over his last 8 games he’s averaging 37ppg 11.8rpg and 4.5apg so he has earned this one rest day. But he realistically can’t miss anymore than 2 or 3 more games if he wants to win MVP.

IDK. Think he has plenty of buffer for off-nights. As long as he plays more than 65, I think he is fine for this year.
Embiid Missed 12 of 50 after tonight
Giannis Missed 10 of 52
Jokic Missed 5 of 49
The issue has always been "will he go down with a second half injury where he misses 10 games?". I don't think any of those guys are going to be an iron man so the difference between 65 games and say 72 games for Jokic might be a tie-breaker but not a deal breaker.

[Sharkboy242]

As good as Jokic has been Joel has been better, he’s the much better and much more dangerous scorer. Joel is worlds better on the defensive end (idc what def rating says). The sixers are 27-11 when Joel plays which is by far the best win % in the east. The MVP is Joel’s to lose. Also Jokic as good as he’s been will most likely be 2nd team all nba since Joel is likely to win the MVP. But impact wise Joel>>Jokic just check their win% on the season and in their careers.

If you take the net difference in assists, Jokic adds more points to his team than Embiid does.

1 assist = 2 points at least, in case you weren't aware, since all you do is cling to PPG since its your only argument.

What does assist have to do with individual scoring? Lol are you lost?

When you account for assists, Jokic provides more points to his team than Embiid. You're obsessed with PPG, or at least its your only argument, so I just thought you should know that.