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Unfortunately basketball involves free throws. This isn't fantasy land where you get to dream about what your favorite 6 foot player would be like if he were 6'6.Mickey8 wrote:Cut his free throws which half of them comes as the charity from the refs and he's not, also his shooting percentages are not the greatest, especially for somebody who is playing at the center position.
BelgradeNugget wrote:PennSports wrote:BelgradeNugget wrote:I already answered to your +- question. Against Atlanta 76ers as a team were +21, and somehow managed to loose. Win big lose small overall down 4-3. And isn't Embiid the one who is letting his team down every year. Freakish injuries, but still not there when they need him. Against Atlanta wasn't he the one who missed layup for 3-1? But nobody is talking about that. First it's Bret Brown, then Ben Simmons, Doc Rivers, Harden, but never Embiid. You can make a case that only time he and his team didn't disappoint was when they were swept in the 1st round without Ben. That year they were underdogs. Every other year they were favorite when they loose. Just look what Butler has done after leaving 76ers. He couldn't have done it there. Why? Yes we all know, Bret Brown and Simmons but never Embiid.
On the other side only time Jokic lost against team that wasn't favored against them was in his 1st POs against Portland in 2nd round. Beating Clippers and Portland with Campazzo and Rivers as underdogs is something Embiid has never done.
all i did was post straight up facts
+/- is not a catch all stat that everything should revolve around but others were using it as such so i dropped a bomb on them. Maybe more context is needed for all these stats afterall? Thanks for trying to bend over backwards to prove my point.
Either way when does Jokic need to actually win without these caveats? You make these excuses for embiids good numbers to prove they arent so good... so what? He didnt win. Jokic didnt win. Jokic gets all the accolades when does he actually have to win? Embiid gets more **** for doing the same in the playoffs as him yet Jokic is a WINNER and Embiid is a LOSER. Shouldnt the mvp and now 2xmvp be held to a higher standard? I guess not, its just open season on Jojo.
What has Jokic done to prove hes a winner over Embiid? Honestly try to answer that. They both havent gotten close to winning a ship. They are working towards it and that is TOTALLY FINE. Yet one gets hell for it and the other is about to win a third mvp with no playoff success. Sounds like there is some bias going on but ive never made it a secret that i am biased towards Embiid. I think i am making a solid argument but you are all free to pick it apart as you see fit. They both havent been close yet one gets lambasted while the other is lauded. Why is that?
Some facts. Here are 76ers - Atalanta Hawks series +- stats
76ers - players with +14 mins per game
Seth Curry +8.4
Joel Embiid +7.3
Danny Green +6.3
Ben Simmons +4.1
Furkan Korkmaz +1.4
Tobias Harris +1.1
George Hill -2.4
Matisse Thybulle -4.9
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=MIN*GE*14&OpponentTeamID=1610612737&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612755&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS
Atalanta Hawks - players with +14 mins per game
Danilo Gallinari +4.6
Lou Williams +3.4
John Collins -0.6
Trae Young -2.4
Kevin Huerter -3.0
Bogdan Bogdanovic -4.6
Clint Capela -8.1
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=MIN*GE*14&OpponentTeamID=1610612755&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612737&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS
Well, 76ers players had much better +- stats. Congratulations. Ups...Atalanta won series. Do you understand what I'm talking about now? Strait POs+-, not a catch all. So maybe +- stats are not good for POs, small sample sizes, and different format, you know.
Regarding wins, team with this starting 5 couldn't get out of 2nd round - Simmons/JJ Redick/Butler/Harris/Embiid. Now replace Simmons/JJ Redick/Harris/Embiid with Dragic/Duncan Robinson/Jae Crowder/Bam Adebayo and you go to finals. Replace them with Kyle Lowry/Max Strus/P.J. Tucker/Bam Adebayo and you go to conference finals. Do you understand what I'm talking about now? Underachieving.
Which team wins series? Dame/CJ/Powell/Roco/Nurkic or Campazzo/Rivers/MPJ/AG/Jokic. Do you understand what I mean by overachieving. In last 3 seasons, only time when Jokic was missing only 1 starter he made it to WCF.
PennSports wrote:BelgradeNugget wrote:PennSports wrote:
End of the day he didnt win, Jokic didnt either. All this guffawing about random roster swaps is just odd, those other players did not play those Kawhi raptors so not sure why you are so sure things would be different. They had their best team at the same time as the Raptors had their best team. Then the Sixers ownership decided to actively sabotage that team
Exp0sed wrote:PennSports wrote:BelgradeNugget wrote:
This "guffawing" about random roster swaps is needed because you're consitently comparing apples to oranges whenever u say both of these players have achieved "the same" (or thereabouts) while ignoring the actual makeup of the teams they've played on
if Garnett stays in Minny and never wins a championship there (or even comes close) - does that reflect poorly on him as a player?
most top 15-20 or even top 10 guys played with multiple other stars, especially during seasons where they actually won a 'chip
why? because it's easy..once u have 1 superstar ur already at least a decent team and even if it takes a couple of seasons, you end up pairing ur superstar with a secondary star that compliments him
this isn't brain surgery
Minny's horrendous FO consistently failed to that, not something that happened and certainly not for that long for many Superstars
Jokic is approaching that territory, this is his 6th season since he became a full time starter and 7th season where he's been incredibly impactful
that's a long time to play without even one single all-star not to mention a slew of scrubs more recently
if u weren't biased you would easily see that Embiid's and Jokic's team situation isn't comparable at all
Everyone knew during KG's limbo and treadmill with Minny that he was the real deal and that it's wasn't his fault that the FO failed to build around him to a madenning degree
just as everyone knows Jokic is, now
I get the argument about the MVP - it's not the who did the most with the least award , that's valid imo
but claiming Embiid is "better' is kinda bonkers tbh and so is arguing that they have achieved the same while completely ignoring what one had to work with and what the other had to work with
thus the need for "random roster swaps"
PennSports wrote:Embiid would never live down losing 8 of 9 playoff games with 2 hot headed ejections.
Cubbies2120 wrote:PennSports wrote:Embiid would never live down losing 8 of 9 playoff games with 2 hot headed ejections.
Embiid lived down losing 7 of 8 playoff games...and the 2 "hot headed ejections" didn't cost the Nuggets the game(s). They were down 20 with 7 mins left vs. the Warriors.
We can't make hypotheticals in about what players would have done w/ reversed rosters, but hypotheticals about what Embiid would/wouldn't have done are ok in your book? Mkay.
eyeatoma wrote:Cubbies2120 wrote:PennSports wrote:Embiid would never live down losing 8 of 9 playoff games with 2 hot headed ejections.
Embiid lived down losing 7 of 8 playoff games...and the 2 "hot headed ejections" didn't cost the Nuggets the game(s). They were down 20 with 7 mins left vs. the Warriors.
We can't make hypotheticals in about what players would have done w/ reversed rosters, but hypotheticals about what Embiid would/wouldn't have done are ok in your book? Mkay.
Ah gotcha, so Jokic timed his blowups in games where he knows he's already going to lose, so he doesn't need to make up an excuse for letting his team down.
Can't make this logic up.
Cubbies2120 wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Cubbies2120 wrote:
Embiid lived down losing 7 of 8 playoff games...and the 2 "hot headed ejections" didn't cost the Nuggets the game(s). They were down 20 with 7 mins left vs. the Warriors.
We can't make hypotheticals in about what players would have done w/ reversed rosters, but hypotheticals about what Embiid would/wouldn't have done are ok in your book? Mkay.
Ah gotcha, so Jokic timed his blowups in games where he knows he's already going to lose, so he doesn't need to make up an excuse for letting his team down.
Can't make this logic up.
Wait, do you think he was gonna come back vs. the best team in the league down 20 with 7 mins left? Damn, you think even more highly of him than I do!
All I said was "they didn't cost them the game", not that he timed them. You jump to some weird conclusions my guy...I think the thought of Jokic having 2 MVP trophies in his trophy case irks you to no end
Wow such an original take. I've never heard that before._Joker wrote:Imagine trying to argue that Embiid is superior to Jokic, whilst ignoring his playoff record and ignoring the respective players around them. Never mind the fact Embiid gets absolutely carried to the line like no one else in the league.
eyeatoma wrote:Cubbies2120 wrote:eyeatoma wrote:
Ah gotcha, so Jokic timed his blowups in games where he knows he's already going to lose, so he doesn't need to make up an excuse for letting his team down.
Can't make this logic up.
Wait, do you think he was gonna come back vs. the best team in the league down 20 with 7 mins left? Damn, you think even more highly of him than I do!
All I said was "they didn't cost them the game", not that he timed them. You jump to some weird conclusions my guy...I think the thought of Jokic having 2 MVP trophies in his trophy case irks you to no end
Not jumping to any conclusions, just showing that there is an unlimited rationale for why Jokic can do no wrong. He is revered more than God on this board. Jokic has a tendency to lose his cool. He also injured a player who nearly lost his ability to ever play the game, and had his goon brothers act tough about it afterwards. Many on this board are so quick to hate on Embiid for falling on top of Danny Green and inadvertently injuring him. They blame Embiid for stepping on Scottie Barnes' foot, when Barnes came from behind on Embiid, and entered his landing space for his leg to naturally go. But when Jokic purposefully lashes out, the stans make plenty of excuses.
As pennsports says, Jokic can do no wrong on this board, and it's a little sickening. All I see on this board is people saying that Embiid intentionally hurts players. Where is that same level of vitriol for Jokic when he gets ejected, or injures a player by attacking him? Just because Morris did something first and has a rep doesn't mean he deserves to be blindsided from behind, which is an absolute no no...
Embiid plays with the energy of a linebacker as a center that's a lot to handle.Cubbies2120 wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Cubbies2120 wrote:
Wait, do you think he was gonna come back vs. the best team in the league down 20 with 7 mins left? Damn, you think even more highly of him than I do!
All I said was "they didn't cost them the game", not that he timed them. You jump to some weird conclusions my guy...I think the thought of Jokic having 2 MVP trophies in his trophy case irks you to no end
Not jumping to any conclusions, just showing that there is an unlimited rationale for why Jokic can do no wrong. He is revered more than God on this board. Jokic has a tendency to lose his cool. He also injured a player who nearly lost his ability to ever play the game, and had his goon brothers act tough about it afterwards. Many on this board are so quick to hate on Embiid for falling on top of Danny Green and inadvertently injuring him. They blame Embiid for stepping on Scottie Barnes' foot, when Barnes came from behind on Embiid, and entered his landing space for his leg to naturally go. But when Jokic purposefully lashes out, the stans make plenty of excuses.
As pennsports says, Jokic can do no wrong on this board, and it's a little sickening. All I see on this board is people saying that Embiid intentionally hurts players. Where is that same level of vitriol for Jokic when he gets ejected, or injures a player by attacking him? Just because Morris did something first and has a rep doesn't mean he deserves to be blindsided from behind, which is an absolute no no...
So lets say Player 1 punches Player 2 in the face a couple times, turns his back and walks away - Player 2 shouldn't retaliate?
Now replace the punch with "Player 1 Intentionally initiates knee to knee contact, and elbows Player 2 in the ribs, as Player 2 is planting on one knee, swinging Player 2's knee from side to side, and then Player 1 turns his back and walks away"...
The reason Jokic reacted the way he did is because what Morris did could have been career altering - you don't go for a player's knees, especially when he's planting all his weight on one leg. You don't walk away thinking there's no retaliation. We've seen what contact to the knees can do, remember Beverley --> Westbrook? We're lucky Jokic didn't experience the same injury - I'm sure Jokic would have rather gotten a hit to the face in that situation...
As for Embiid, lets be real here, he's on another level of dirty. There's whole compilations on youtube lol
(this one was him about to get that whooping before his teammates blindside Towns)
Ummm... Thanks for making it easy. Blocked.maxwellcu wrote:^^ This is an MVP thread and Embiid isn't an MVP player. Take it somewhere else. And it might be healthy for you to give your obsession a bit of a break.
maxwellcu wrote:Every thread on this entire message board is dominated by bitter 76ers fans. Do you guys ever get tired of it? I mean really, let it go.
eyeatoma wrote:Embiid plays with the energy of a linebacker as a center that's a lot to handle.Cubbies2120 wrote:eyeatoma wrote:
Not jumping to any conclusions, just showing that there is an unlimited rationale for why Jokic can do no wrong. He is revered more than God on this board. Jokic has a tendency to lose his cool. He also injured a player who nearly lost his ability to ever play the game, and had his goon brothers act tough about it afterwards. Many on this board are so quick to hate on Embiid for falling on top of Danny Green and inadvertently injuring him. They blame Embiid for stepping on Scottie Barnes' foot, when Barnes came from behind on Embiid, and entered his landing space for his leg to naturally go. But when Jokic purposefully lashes out, the stans make plenty of excuses.
As pennsports says, Jokic can do no wrong on this board, and it's a little sickening. All I see on this board is people saying that Embiid intentionally hurts players. Where is that same level of vitriol for Jokic when he gets ejected, or injures a player by attacking him? Just because Morris did something first and has a rep doesn't mean he deserves to be blindsided from behind, which is an absolute no no...
So lets say Player 1 punches Player 2 in the face a couple times, turns his back and walks away - Player 2 shouldn't retaliate?
Now replace the punch with "Player 1 Intentionally initiates knee to knee contact, and elbows Player 2 in the ribs, as Player 2 is planting on one knee, swinging Player 2's knee from side to side, and then Player 1 turns his back and walks away"...
The reason Jokic reacted the way he did is because what Morris did could have been career altering - you don't go for a player's knees, especially when he's planting all his weight on one leg. You don't walk away thinking there's no retaliation. We've seen what contact to the knees can do, remember Beverley --> Westbrook? We're lucky Jokic didn't experience the same injury - I'm sure Jokic would have rather gotten a hit to the face in that situation...
As for Embiid, lets be real here, he's on another level of dirty. There's whole compilations on youtube lol
(this one was him about to get that whooping before his teammates blindside Towns)
There is nothing intentional there.
Jokic towers over refs and intimidates them. I don't care for your justification for Jokic's hit on Morris. You never hit a player in the back period. Morris could have ended his career. Jokic could have paralyzed him. One is your whole life the other is your career. If he has a problem hit him on the next play or look him in the face and square up like a man.
Lol at the last one. That's called a fight.
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My guy's over here talking like a guy who has never played a sport that has physical contact in his life. E-Sports don't count He was out half the season with a neck issue. Any more severe and that's not out of the realm of possibility.Cubbies2120 wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Embiid plays with the energy of a linebacker as a center that's a lot to handle.Cubbies2120 wrote:
So lets say Player 1 punches Player 2 in the face a couple times, turns his back and walks away - Player 2 shouldn't retaliate?
Now replace the punch with "Player 1 Intentionally initiates knee to knee contact, and elbows Player 2 in the ribs, as Player 2 is planting on one knee, swinging Player 2's knee from side to side, and then Player 1 turns his back and walks away"...
The reason Jokic reacted the way he did is because what Morris did could have been career altering - you don't go for a player's knees, especially when he's planting all his weight on one leg. You don't walk away thinking there's no retaliation. We've seen what contact to the knees can do, remember Beverley --> Westbrook? We're lucky Jokic didn't experience the same injury - I'm sure Jokic would have rather gotten a hit to the face in that situation...
As for Embiid, lets be real here, he's on another level of dirty. There's whole compilations on youtube lol
(this one was him about to get that whooping before his teammates blindside Towns)
There is nothing intentional there.
Jokic towers over refs and intimidates them. I don't care for your justification for Jokic's hit on Morris. You never hit a player in the back period. Morris could have ended his career. Jokic could have paralyzed him. One is your whole life the other is your career. If he has a problem hit him on the next play or look him in the face and square up like a man.
Lol at the last one. That's called a fight.
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Interesting that he "Plays with the energy of a linebacker", yet hits the floor more than any 7 footer I've ever seen in my life.
Did you have this same energy (don't push in the back) when Smart did it to Embiid (and Embiid got right back up, not paralyzed! :O )?
ParalyzedMy guy's over here talking like a guy who has never played a sport that has physical contact in his life. E-Sports don't count
That's like me saying "Those illegal elbows Embiid has thrown in the face of a few different players could have been LETHAL. If he hit them in exactly the right spot, they coulda KILLED SOMEONE"
Paralyzed
Inspektor1312 wrote:maxwellcu wrote:Every thread on this entire message board is dominated by bitter 76ers fans. Do you guys ever get tired of it? I mean really, let it go.
It's getting funnier by the day