RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[SlimShady83]

In regards to Bigman Who Y'all got?

Shaq, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem,

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Shaq
Jokic
Russell
Duncan

in that order, if I’m picking a C.

I can't quite put Jokic or Giannis near the top 15 just yet as they're still playing In their primes, I'll wait until near the end of of their careers first.

Edit: Russell, Duncan, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem.

[Jaqua92]

Because of his longevity, LBJ's peak and prime became more and more underrated...I mean, he was considered as an all-time top 3-5 after 2016 when he was only 31....And for longevity , the thing is that he is still a top 10 caliber player, so we can't penalize him for that...He is much better than Jordan was with the wizards in 2002 and 2003

For the peak, I could make an argument that LBJ was as good if not better in the playoffs in 2016 to 2018 than Jordan was in 1991 to 1993

This is what happens when a player plays this deep into their career.

Forgot longevity and accomplishments.

2009-2013 LeBron is only surpassed by 1988-1993 MJ.

Matched by Shaq, and Jokic is the next closest thing.

As a player, LeBron's peak is as close to MJ's as anyone's ever, and understand how longevity surpasses that for some.

But for most, MJ was just a greater winner, was a much greater pop culture icon, and DID peak just a bit higher than LeBron's possible SLIGHTLY superior full career impact as an individual player just isn't enough to surpass MJ because....

1. Even if it was only for a 3-5 year stretch, at their best, MJ was just a bit better.

[bledredwine]

Because of his longevity, LBJ's peak and prime became more and more underrated...I mean, he was considered as an all-time top 3-5 after 2016 when he was only 31....And for longevity , the thing is that he is still a top 10 caliber player, so we can't penalize him for that...He is much better than Jordan was with the wizards in 2002 and 2003

For the peak, I could make an argument that LBJ was as good if not better in the playoffs in 2016 to 2018 than Jordan was in 1991 to 1993

This is what happens when a player plays this deep into their career.

Forgot longevity and accomplishments.

2009-2013 LeBron is only surpassed by 1988-1993 MJ.

Matched by Shaq, and Jokic is the next closest thing.

As a player, LeBron's peak is as close to MJ's as anyone's ever, and understand how longevity surpasses that for some.

But for most, MJ was just a greater winner, was a much greater pop culture icon, and DID peak just a bit higher than LeBron's possible SLIGHTLY superior full career impact as an individual player just isn't enough to surpass MJ because....

1. Even if it was only for a 3-5 year stretch, at their best, MJ was just a bit better.

You can't put Lebron's peak over Kareem, Wilt and Bird.

Those three are ATG peaks as well.

[The4thHorseman]

Because of his longevity, LBJ's peak and prime became more and more underrated...I mean, he was considered as an all-time top 3-5 after 2016 when he was only 31....And for longevity , the thing is that he is still a top 10 caliber player, so we can't penalize him for that...He is much better than Jordan was with the wizards in 2002 and 2003

For the peak, I could make an argument that LBJ was as good if not better in the playoffs in 2016 to 2018 than Jordan was in 1991 to 1993

This is what happens when a player plays this deep into their career.

Forgot longevity and accomplishments.

2009-2013 LeBron is only surpassed by 1988-1993 MJ.

Matched by Shaq, and Jokic is the next closest thing.

As a player, LeBron's peak is as close to MJ's as anyone's ever, and understand how longevity surpasses that for some.

But for most, MJ was just a greater winner, was a much greater pop culture icon, and DID peak just a bit higher than LeBron's possible SLIGHTLY superior full career impact as an individual player just isn't enough to surpass MJ because....

1. Even if it was only for a 3-5 year stretch, at their best, MJ was just a bit better.

You can't put Lebron's peak over Kareem, Wilt and Bird.

Those three are ATG peaks as well.

He can put anyone's peak wherever he wants.

[bledredwine]

This is what happens when a player plays this deep into their career.

Forgot longevity and accomplishments.

2009-2013 LeBron is only surpassed by 1988-1993 MJ.

Matched by Shaq, and Jokic is the next closest thing.

As a player, LeBron's peak is as close to MJ's as anyone's ever, and understand how longevity surpasses that for some.

But for most, MJ was just a greater winner, was a much greater pop culture icon, and DID peak just a bit higher than LeBron's possible SLIGHTLY superior full career impact as an individual player just isn't enough to surpass MJ because....

1. Even if it was only for a 3-5 year stretch, at their best, MJ was just a bit better.

You can't put Lebron's peak over Kareem, Wilt and Bird.

Those three are ATG peaks as well.

He can put anyone's peak wherever he wants.

Quality sass there.

You know exactly what I meant.
You can't logically put Lebron over Kareem, Wilt and Bird. There.

[Homer38]

You can't put Lebron's peak over Kareem, Wilt and Bird.

Those three are ATG peaks as well.

He can put anyone's peak wherever he wants.

Quality sass there.

You know exactly what I meant.
You can't logically put Lebron over Kareem, Wilt and Bird. There.

LeBron win 4 MVP in 5 years at one point....Only Bill Russell did that

[MavsDirk41]

He can put anyone's peak wherever he wants.

Quality sass there.

You know exactly what I meant.
You can't logically put Lebron over Kareem, Wilt and Bird. There.

LeBron win 4 MVP in 5 years at one point....Only Bill Russell did that

Kareem won 5 mvp’s within a 7 year stretch

[Homer38]

Quality sass there.

You know exactly what I meant.
You can't logically put Lebron over Kareem, Wilt and Bird. There.

LeBron win 4 MVP in 5 years at one point....Only Bill Russell did that

Kareem won 5 mvp’s within a 7 year stretch

Yeah,both had all-time great peak but their peak is underrated because of their great longevity

[MavsDirk41]

LeBron win 4 MVP in 5 years at one point....Only Bill Russell did that

Kareem won 5 mvp’s within a 7 year stretch

Yeah,both had all-time great peak but their peak is underrated because of their great longevity

Why would longevity undermine a players peak? Nobody discounts either of these players peaks becuase of their longevity. Bird had a relatively short peak but it doesnt take away from his stellar career. Duncan, Kobe, Malone all had great peaks too. The all time greats are great regardless of longevity.

[Homer38]

Kareem won 5 mvp’s within a 7 year stretch

Yeah,both had all-time great peak but their peak is underrated because of their great longevity

Why would longevity undermine a players peak? Nobody discounts either of these players peaks becuase of their longevity. Bird had a relatively short peak but it doesnt take away from his stellar career. Duncan, Kobe, Malone all had great peaks too. The all time greats are great regardless of longevity.

I never said that...I'm just saying because of their longevity, LeBron and Kareem's peak is sometimes criminally underrated, some forget how all-time great they were at their peak with 4 mvp in 5 years for LBJ and 5 in 7 for Kareem

[MavsDirk41]

Yeah,both had all-time great peak but their peak is underrated because of their great longevity

Why would longevity undermine a players peak? Nobody discounts either of these players peaks becuase of their longevity. Bird had a relatively short peak but it doesnt take away from his stellar career. Duncan, Kobe, Malone all had great peaks too. The all time greats are great regardless of longevity.

I never said that...I'm just saying because of their longevity, LeBron and Kareem's peak is sometimes criminally underrated, some forget how all-time great they were at their peak with 4 mvp in 5 years for LBJ and 5 in 7 for Kareem

Well considering they are both top 3 or 4 all time to most everyone i dont think so

[bledredwine]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

[Homer38]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

[KyRo23]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

[Rust_Cohle]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

And yet LeBron has many more missed FG’s and turnovers than MJ

[Homer38]

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

And yet LeBron has many more missed FG’s and turnovers than MJ

He talk about if he shot as much that Jordan per game....

[KyRo23]

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

And yet LeBron has many more missed FG’s and turnovers than MJ

What’s this mean? LeBron passed Jordan in scoring on less FGs so basically if Jordan kept playing he would have more missed shots than LeBron with less points…

[bledredwine]

Another fun fact, courtesy of the Lebron 30 point games thread:

Lebron finally tied Jordan's 30 point game record and it took him 8 more seasons (basically an NBA career extra) to get there.

And as for the numbers leading up to that point?

Michael Jordan has 12,345 missed field goals (swear the numbers are a weird coincidence, look it up)
Lebron James has 14,749 missed field goals to beat Jordan's record in 8 more seasons than Jordan did it.

Michael Jordan - 24, 537 shot attempts
Lebron James - 29, 881 shot attempts

Once again, Michael Jordan, winner.

C'mon this is too easy

Read on Twitter

And when LeBron surpass him in points in the regular season and playoffs,LeBron had also less shot attempts that MJ

If LeBron shot as much as MJ he might have 50,000 points right now lmao

lol, you're basically posting who had more games where they took more shots.

Well, considering Jordan had a similar field goal percentage, it just meant he was a way more effective volume scorer! He got his shot off constantly.
You just helped the case.

I, however, actually posted something that shows the relationship of what it takes both players to get volume scoring. Clearly, in parallel, Lebron finally totaled Jordan's 30 point game streak and took way more shots to get there! Not to mention way more seasons.

[bledredwine]

Someone fact check this but from a user in the 30 point games thread.

"MJ outscored 982 out of 983 of his opponents head to head in his entire career. The only player to outscore him was AI. Now Jordan was at the tail end of his career at the time of course.

MJ outscored 268 out of 269 opponents head to head in playoff series. Terry Cummings was the only player to outscore him in a series very early in MJ's career.

To quote OP post - The extent of his dominance is simply incredible!"



(as far as I know, this is all true)

[Drygon]

Michael Jordan's status as the GOAT is kept alive by old people with power in sports media as they lived through the era of prime MJ dominating the NBA.

Since prime MJ retired in 1998 however, there are millions and millions of young people becoming NBA fans. And they missed out prime MJ as they were either too young or not born.

Even though YouTube exists, most people are growing up with idols they have seen with their own eyes. LeBron James is the only GOAT-level player people under the age of 30 have seen.

When the old people in sports media are replaced by the younger generation, will MJ no longer be revered as the GOAT and LeBron James taking over that role?