The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[SexDrugsPnR]

*edited. what i was trying to point out was already said on the previous page.

[Winglish]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games.

So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative!

Haters gonna hate.

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[Trugger]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games.

So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative!

Haters gonna hate

So Simmons Has 1000+ pts, 450+ rebs 450+ ast 100+ st 50+ blk in his first 63 games ,,,
How many players have that ????

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[HotelVitale]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games. So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative! Haters gonna hate.

Don't think pretty much anyone has ever said 'all he does is score,' but many have said 'all he does better than Simmons is score.' No need to invent any more hate than there already is.

[KHRICH]

Uh oh looks like fultz is getting smoother still kinks to work out but progressing he likes like a big pg damn.
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Read on Twitter

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[Black Mage]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games.

So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative!

Haters gonna hate.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Um, do you know how to do simple division?

200 divided by 60 is a shallow 3.33

So in 60 games he averaged an earthshattering 3.33 assists and rebounds. Pardon me while I yawn.

I am pretty certain that the triggering stat used to shrink it down to 5 players is his points scored. So yet again all he does is score.

Edit: I just realized you also only used active players, how do those stats compare historically? Kinda get the feeling it's not so well otherwise you would have used the history of NBA stat instead.

[Black Mage]

So, I have a question about Lonzo's rebounding numbers. Should they be slightly discredited given his 7 foot center is hauling in a pathetic 3.8 rebounds a game?

It doesn't seem like Lonzo has much competition for all those rebounds he gets.

On a side note, Lopez should be e,embarassed to have such a sorry rebound average.

[deflated]

So, I have a question about Lonzo's rebounding numbers. Should they be slightly discredited given his 7 foot center is hauling in a pathetic 3.8 rebounds a game?

It doesn't seem like Lonzo has much competition for all those rebounds he gets.

On a side note, Lopez should be e,embarassed to have such a sorry rebound average.

Nah, the other 4 Lakers have to fight Lopez's opponent as well as their own for rebounds. Huge negative on the boards.

[Winglish]

Fastest rookie in NBA history to reach 150 three pointers made?

Donovan Mitchell.

He surpassed Damian Lillard's record by three games.

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[LordCovington33]

Fastest rookie in NBA history to reach 150 three pointers made?

Donovan Mitchell.

He surpassed Damian Lillard's record by three games.

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For better context, how many 3s did DM attempt in those 63 games, and how many did DL attempt in his first 63. Incredible achievement, regardless.

[LordCovington33]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games.

So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative!

Haters gonna hate.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

A cheeky, cherry-picked stat designed to exclude Simmons by just 4 points. lol
In 60 games, his tally was:
996 points, 462 rebounds and 443 assists

Here are the totals for both players after 63 games.

DM
1242 points, 225 rebounds, 225 assists, 91 steals, 24 blocks

BS
1034 points, 483 rebounds, 479 assists, 110 steals, 58 blocks

Here is some more cherry picking. How many active players with 1000 pts, 450 rebounds, 450 assists, 100 steals and 50 blocks after 63 games? LeBron doesn't qualify due to insufficient steals, and RW does not have enough blocks.

[QPR]

Fastest rookie in NBA history to reach 150 three pointers made?

Donovan Mitchell.

He surpassed Damian Lillard's record by three games.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

For better context, how many 3s did DM attempt in those 63 games, and how many did DL attempt in his first 63. Incredible achievement, regardless.

Mitchell has attempted 430 threes so far at a 35% clip. Lillard attempted 503 total at a 37% clip, so fairly close. Mitchell has attempted 88 in his last 10 games, so if he keeps up that level he will be around the 600 mark by season's end.

For comparison's sake, Lillard hit his first 150 threes in 411 attempts. Basically neck and neck.

It's a pretty good indicator of how basketball has evolved though - Ray Allen only took 600+ threes in a season once, and only 500+ three times.

[ItsMyPotPie]

Even though I love DM and am happy for the jazz, simmons is going to win

[Nemecide]

Donovan Mitchell is one of FIVE active NBA players to have scored 1,000 points, grabbed 200 rebounds, and had 200 assists in their first 60 games.

So much for the "All he does is score" false narrative!

Haters gonna hate.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

Curious, why did you only made it 60 games comparison and not 63 games comparison?...

You clearly posted this today lol. Are you that desperate to justify DM's value?
You realise you're just making people think Ben deserves it more, because the need of you purposely selecting the stats you want to post lol.

[QPR]

Here is some more cherry picking. How many active players with 1000 pts, 450 rebounds, 450 assists, 100 steals and 50 blocks after 63 games? LeBron doesn't qualify due to insufficient steals, and RW does not have enough blocks.

Even comparing to the rookie season stats of some of the great all around players of the past 25 years:

Grant Hill: 1,394 points, 445 rebounds, 353 assists, 124 steals, 62 blocks (70 games)
Jason Kidd: 922 points, 430 rebounds, 607 assists, 151 steals, 24 blocks (79 games)
Penny Hardaway: 1,313 points, 439 rebounds, 544 assists, 190 steals, 51 blocks (82 games)
LeBron James: 1,654 points, 432 rebounds, 465 assists, 130 steals, 58 blocks (79 games)
Michael Jordan: 2,313 points, 534 rebounds, 481 assists, 196 steals, 69 blocks (82 games)
Magic Johnson: 1,387 points, 596 rebounds, 563 assists, 187 steals, 41 blocks (77 games)

Ben Simmons: 1,034 points, 483 rebounds, 479 assists, 110 steals, 58 blocks (63 games)

Extrapolated over 81 games: 1,329 points, 621 rebounds, 616 assists, 141 steals, 75 blocks. Basically Magic's rookie season in about 16 more total minutes (2811 to 2795).

No disrespect to Mitchell, but if you're gonna play the "totals after x games" card there's only going to be one winner.

[FlatearthZorro]

It should be Mitchell imo. I think Mitchell is on a less talented team and if they make the playoffs which could be the wrong move in the long run, I think Mitchell totally deserves to be ROY.

[mjvile]

Also, the whole "Utah is carried by Mitchell" thing is exhausting to me. Rudy Gobert is the unquestioned MVP of that team, but even Joe Ingles and Ricky Rubio provide more shot creation and defense than every other player on the Sixers team besides Joel Embiid. It's just a really solid team and much more balanced than the Sixers.

It's really easy to filter out the minutes with and without Gobert/Embiid and see how each impacts their respective team with or without Mitchell/Simmons. The reality is Embiid and Gobert are the unquestionable MVPs of PHI and UTA and neither of the rookies has been able to produce wins without them. I'm sick of this argument "Mitchell doesn't carry Utah to wins by himself"... well duh! Pretty much no rookie ever does that. You mean if we took out a second team All-NBA center off of a team that already lacks high end talent, that team won't perform as well as with this All-NBA center?!? Oh wow! What a shocker! Now why don't you take the next step and ask yourself what does SImmons do without Embiid? Lets see what the numbers actually show:

by NBAwowy:

Gobert+Mitchell: +5.7
Embiid+Simmons: +14.1(holy smokes this is awesome and bodes well for PHI's future!!! Eastern conf teams should be trying hard to avoid PHI in the playoffs when this combo will play heavy minutes together)

Mitchell-Gobert: -0.7
Simmons-Embiid: -6.6

Gobert-Mitchell: +1.4
Embiid-Simmons: +2.1

So who carries what?

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Simmons is carrying Philly. Rational fans agree that Gobert and Embiid are the MVP's of their team, however multiple players, reporters and TV personalities imply that Mitchell caries the Jazz due to his PPG. That bothers me somehow.

I do think that Simmons is the second most important player on this team, during this winning streak for the Jazz I might lean towards Joe Ingles.

Being the teams leading scorer Mitchell carries the jazz offensively is a true statement, like Gobert carries the Jazz defensively. That is Mitchells role on this team. The next leading scorer on the Jazz is Jae Crowded at 13.5 ppg.

[mtron929]

It's really easy to filter out the minutes with and without Gobert/Embiid and see how each impacts their respective team with or without Mitchell/Simmons. The reality is Embiid and Gobert are the unquestionable MVPs of PHI and UTA and neither of the rookies has been able to produce wins without them. I'm sick of this argument "Mitchell doesn't carry Utah to wins by himself"... well duh! Pretty much no rookie ever does that. You mean if we took out a second team All-NBA center off of a team that already lacks high end talent, that team won't perform as well as with this All-NBA center?!? Oh wow! What a shocker! Now why don't you take the next step and ask yourself what does SImmons do without Embiid? Lets see what the numbers actually show:

by NBAwowy:

Gobert+Mitchell: +5.7
Embiid+Simmons: +14.1(holy smokes this is awesome and bodes well for PHI's future!!! Eastern conf teams should be trying hard to avoid PHI in the playoffs when this combo will play heavy minutes together)

Mitchell-Gobert: -0.7
Simmons-Embiid: -6.6

Gobert-Mitchell: +1.4
Embiid-Simmons: +2.1

So who carries what?

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Simmons is carrying Philly. Rational fans agree that Gobert and Embiid are the MVP's of their team, however multiple players, reporters and TV personalities imply that Mitchell caries the Jazz due to his PPG. That bothers me somehow.

I do think that Simmons is the second most important player on this team, during this winning streak for the Jazz I might lean towards Joe Ingles.

Being the teams leading scorer Mitchell carries the jazz offensively is a true statement, like Gobert carries the Jazz defensively. That is Mitchells role on this team. The next leading scorer on the Jazz is Jae Crowded at 13.5 ppg.

I feel like a lot of the people use this word "carries" to describe what Mitchell is doing with the Jazz that kind of overinflates his contribution. I really feel like one should be more obviously dominant if we want to insinuate that one player is carrying the team's offense. Kind of akin to Dirk carrying the 2011 Mavs or Olajuwon carrying the 94 Rockets. I noticed that A LOT of the Mitchell supporters use this word "carry" like this is some campaign slogan word that would best improve the chances of Mitchell getting more votes.

Sort of like statistical comparisons are out the door so we need to invent some qualitative word tricks to maximize Mitchell's contributions. There is something very disingenuous about how Mitchell fans are constructing this narrative for Mitchell.

[Jazz_Man_86]

Donovan made him self a superstar. Just smashed pelicans.Again. Willed jazz to the victory once again. This is sick

[KDBG]

I really hope that Mitchell and Simmons win co-rookie of the year together. They both have had a tremendous impact on both of their respective teams. And it looks like both teams will make the playoffs. Both will be top 10 players in the league very soon. I'm excited to watch both dominate for the next decade or more. Exciting players.