NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

Cubbies2120 · Post #1721 » by **Cubbies2120** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 2:10 am

Incredible.

kuclas · Post #1722 » by **kuclas** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 2:38 am

Cubbies2120 wrote:Incredible.

Read on Twitter

Well the only stat that matters is Jokic had a non all star do something only the greatest player of all time did. Score 40 points in 3 straight playoff games. Jordan was the last player to score 40 points in 3 straight games and that was in 1993.

Just to make it out of the first round of nba playoff.

Jokic needed that type of help to get his only playoff success!

iggymcfrack · Post #1723 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 2:55 am

Exp0sed wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:

PER has some weaknesses compared to other stats, but the one advantage it has is that it's adjusted to the league in a given year. League average is set at 15 no matter what and then it goes from there. People setting the standard higher in a more talented league than ever actually means that it's harder to get big PER numbers that in the past. The reason that we're seeing more big outlier numbers is that teams are running more of the offense through their stars than ever before. Hence Giannis this season having a higher USG than Kobe in 2006. The incredible numbers that Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid have put up the last few years shouldn't be written off as just a consequence of the new era inflating stats. The league-adjusted nature of PER shows that even relative to their peers, they're more dominant statistically and taking on bigger loads than all but a few stars of the past. The fact that Jokic puts up elite PER numbers despite a USG rate that would be more at home with past stars just shows he's a special once in a lifetime player since he's setting records without the other stars' volume boost.

don't conflate "usage" with "load"

getting more touches and chucking up more shots isn't carrying more load
they are also load-managing heavily and regularly coasting on defenseit

much easier to funnel everything thru one player and then have him sit the next day on a back to back
a guy that knows he has to play tomorrow night as well - is in a different situation

while true that there's more running and elaborate schemes involved now, there is also alot let hurt \ phyisicality and sports science, nutrition. training regimes etc have all evolved to allow that added movement

and yes, if teams of the past would have employed helio-centric offenses - those players would have higher raw stats AND higher PER

ur right that PER adjusts for the current season but like u say - it doesn't adjust for the scheme and strategy changed

it also doesn't account for one major thing and that's FG%
it accounts for current league pace, pts, PF's etc (a long list) but it doesn't account the differeneces in efficiency

the fact that the NBA has been won over by analytics and players are taking better shots than ever (on the whole) is NOT accounted for and that's the main reason Jokic (and to a lesser extent his peers) are breaking PER records

not because they are better

you guys are barking up the wrong tree, PER is the weirdest of hills to die on imo
just use common sense instead:

are Jokic\Embiid\Giannis 3 of the top 5-6 players ever? (at least in the rs, let's stick to the rs)
because if PER accounts for "era" and we can compare between different seasons reliabily - that would mean these 3 guys have a huge % of the best regular seasons ever played

that's ludicrous and it doesn't pass the laugh test
this era's increased efficiency is the culprit here

Jokic is not having the best season ever, and Embiid \ Giannis aren't having top 10 seasons (or whatever)

chill out guys

Obviously, I'm not saying that you can just straight up rank seasons by PER. That would be reductive and silly. What I'm saying is PER does accurately measure something which is "how do this player's box score numbers compare to league average on a per minute basis?" I think that's useful information to know. Giannis and Embiid as you mentioned often don't play a full complement of minutes and while both are great defenders, neither one is a dominant defender on the level of Duncan or KG. So no, you can't just simply compare them. However, it does give you a baseline that this isn't just something "anyone" could do in the modern environment. I think it shows that offensively, when healthy, Embiid is right up there with the other elite centers of all-time. And considering his incredible passing/playmaking that vastly outperforms his box score output, I think yes it gives strong support for the idea that Jokic might be having the greatest regular season of all-time. At the very least, I'd put it in the same group as '91 Jordan, '09 LeBron, and '16 Curry. I'd probably lean more on the impact stats than the box score stats for that assessment, but knowing how elite passers/playmakers tend to get underrated by PER, knowing that Jokic isn't gaining the same USG boost as Embiid/Giannis, and knowing that Jokic has actually been one of the most durable stars in the NBA if not the most durable over the last 3 years, I think there's a lot of evidence that he's on that level.

iggymcfrack · Post #1724 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 2:58 am

kuclas wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:Incredible.

Read on Twitter

Well the only stat that matters is Jokic had a non all star do something only the greatest player of all time did. Score 40 points in 3 straight playoff games. Jordan was the last player to score 40 points in 3 straight games and that was in 1993.

Just to make it out of the first round of nba playoff.

Jokic needed that type of help to get his only playoff success!

LOL. If that was the only playoff series Jokic won, you might have a point. However, he's actually won 4 playoff series including one where Murray didn't even play.

kuclas · Post #1725 » by **kuclas** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 3:17 am

iggymcfrack wrote:
kuclas wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:Incredible.

Read on Twitter

Well the only stat that matters is Jokic had a non all star do something only the greatest player of all time did. Score 40 points in 3 straight playoff games. Jordan was the last player to score 40 points in 3 straight games and that was in 1993.

Just to make it out of the first round of nba playoff.

Jokic needed that type of help to get his only playoff success!

LOL. If that was the only playoff series Jokic won, you might have a point. However, he's actually won 4 playoff series including one where Murray didn't even play.

Murray had to have a crazy (another ) 40 point performance to bail Jokic out of game 7 in the following series.

Mickey8 · Post #1726 » by **Mickey8** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 3:22 am

Jokic play is utter trash this season, he should have never been in the race this season.

Wolfgang630 · Post #1727 » by **Wolfgang630** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 3:30 am

Mickey8 wrote:Jokic play is utter trash this season, he should have never been in the race this season.

He’s not really playing great. 4 turnovers. 5 shots and missing free throws

Wolfgang630 · Post #1728 » by **Wolfgang630** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 3:57 am

I think Embiid should be the front runner for mvp. He’s been dominating games lately. Jokic been getting those Jason Kidd triple doubles now and he played bad tonight. Getting completely outplayed by Vucevic

HotRocks34 · Post #1729 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 3:59 am

Rough night for Jokic. Looks like the second game all year he'll finish under 50% FG.

Helps the people behind him, but he should still be comfortably in the lead.

But a few more games like this and the award will be up for grabs.

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Embiid

BigGargamel · Post #1730 » by **BigGargamel** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:01 am

his first bad game in 3 months. stick a fork in him. he's done.

You guys are hilarious. Probably take an hour every day figuring out what you're gonna wear. So much flip flopping back and fourth.

Post #1731 » by **ken6199** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:02 am

HotRocks34 · Post #1732 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:04 am

BigGargamel wrote::lol: his first bad game in 3 months. stick a fork in him. he's done.

You guys are hilarious. Probably take an hour every day figuring out what you're gonna wear. So much flip flopping back and fourth.

Yeah it's a little much.

This is only the second time all year that Denver will lose at home when all 5 starters play. They're 30-5 after tonight, at home. Only Memphis (26-5) has as few home losses.

Philly recently went 1-3 in a four-game stretch, and the only game they won Embiid sat. That is, they lost 3 straight games with Embiid playing. Two of the three were at home.

Jokic is fine. But tonight he and the team were poor.

It happens.

To be fair, he hasn't played great the last two games. So he'll have to pick it up. He might be pressing a bit.

eyeatoma · Post #1733 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:30 am

Is this your MVP?

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AleksandarN · Post #1734 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:53 am

eyeatoma wrote:Is this your MVP?

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At least we are here when Denver and Jokic loses a game. You are no where to be found when Philly and Embiid loses. At least we have the balls to post on realgm. Lol shows your true character. But you be you

AleksandarN · Post #1735 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 4:55 am

Back on the game this by far was Jokic worse game of the season hopefully a wake up call to jokic and team to wake up and not play down to the opposition

Exp0sed · Post #1736 » by **Exp0sed** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 5:01 am

eyeatoma wrote:Is this your MVP?

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lol ur hillarious
Embiid had 4 straight negative games before that explosion last game and u were quiet as a mouse

p.s I think I jinxed him, I didn't watch the game was too tired (first game i've missed in a while, lol)

eyeatoma · Post #1737 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 5:19 am

AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Is this your MVP?

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At least we are here when Denver and Jokic loses a game. You are no where to be found when Philly and Embiid loses. At least we have the balls to post on realgm. Lol shows your true character. But you be you

My character, Embiid has had a bunch of **** games. I don't spend my life here, posting every time he has one. Why would I come here to post, to **** on him? I'm a fan of his. I like Joker as well. You've got some odd comments, questioning who you think I am. In another thread you were questioning whether I had the right to comment on the situation in Portland. Perhaps it might be a good call on your end to not make things personal.

eyeatoma · Post #1738 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 5:20 am

Exp0sed wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Is this your MVP?

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

lol ur hillarious
Embiid had 4 straight negative games before that explosion last game and u were quiet as a mouse

p.s I think I jinxed him, I didn't watch the game was too tired (first game i've missed in a while, lol)

Embiid's subpar games are far better than Joker's lol.

eyeatoma · Post #1739 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 5:26 am

Read on Twitter

Jokic has been doing this for a while. Hasn't been under 20 points for 5 of the last 7 games. I don't care what you say, scoring matters for the MVP. He seems to be intent on getting those triple double to boost his candidacy, knowing that the team wins when the get a triple double. Unfortunately he's so focused on that, he is not able to take over when he needs to to dig his team out of a hole. As mentioned before he lacks the take over gene that most stars/MVPs possess. It does seem to show up more in the playoffs, so that's good. Being hyperefficient on offense is useless as a scorer if you don't actually you know, score. Up his volume and his efficiency will drop.

Read on Twitter

And ya'll are telling me about Embiid's lack luster games... LOL...Those are Ben Simmons lines...

AleksandarN · Post #1740 » by **AleksandarN** » Thu Mar 9, 2023 5:34 am

eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Is this your MVP?

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

At least we are here when Denver and Jokic loses a game. You are no where to be found when Philly and Embiid loses. At least we have the balls to post on realgm. Lol shows your true character. But you be you

My character, Embiid has had a bunch of **** games. I don't spend my life here, posting every time he has one. Why would I come here to post, to **** on him? I'm a fan of his. I like Joker as well. You've got some odd comments, questioning who you think I am. In another thread you were questioning whether I had the right to comment on the situation in Portland. Perhaps it might be a good call on your end to not make things personal.

We have been posting back and forth the last 3 years on these mvp races. I have called you out on your **** back then and I will continue to do so. I will also call out jokic for having bad games. Call out others for prematurely calling jokic better than all time greats. Because unlike you I try to be objective when it comes to players I cheer for unlike you you who wants bring in other bull to prop your guy up like race. I know your character well

Who is leading the MVP race? (listed alphabetically)