2024 NBA FINALS: #1 Boston Celtics vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (BOS leads 2-0)

[whatisacenter]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Really? 12 TO's in two games and the next time he tries on defense will be his first.

I would never vote for a player from the losing team to be MVP.

But I am not a fan of individual awards anyway.

[Slax]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Luka has been great, but if the Mavs lose and Luka gets an FMVP participation trophy, it's going to be for something MUCH more dominant than what he's doing now. Mavs are currently down 0-2, he's putting up 31 ppg on good but not otherworldly efficiency while being guarded mostly straight up, he has a 1.0 A/T ratio, and the Celtics are hunting him on defense on every possession and he's completely gassed by the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to put him down or anything, that's a REALLY impressive performance, but we're talking FMVP on the winning team performance, not FMVP on the losing team performance. If the Mavs lose the series 3-4 and are only in it because Luka is averaging 40 a game and the Celtics can't slow him even while leaving good shooters open and he suddenly figures out how to shut down Jaylen Brown on defense, then sure we're in the realm of possibility where the voters could plausibly break a decades long tradition and consider him over whoever is leading the Celtics, but he's absolutely not there at this moment. Realistically he's going up have to win the series to win FMVP.

[CD_41]

The Celtics look great. As a Mavs fan, you just can give credit. Right now, we need a third guy on offense.
I'm curious to see how the Mavs adjust again and with Luka I always expect him to figure out a defense over the course of a series.
But yeah, his defense has been bad.

I'm happy for Jrue Holiday, since a lot people in here bashed him for the Bucks first round loss last playoffs.
Yeah he did not play great but suddenly there was this "shrinks in the playoffs"-narrative.
The man is already an NBA-champion, Olympic gold medalist and also just a great person.

[celtxman]

Kobe had a bad Game 7. But he was WAY better than Tatum was this series. And it was a different era of basketball where scoring was harder.

Tatum has shot terribly. Right now he is the last of the top 6 Celtics I want to see shooting an outside shot. But there is a real comparison with Kobe here. I understand it is a little easier to score now than it was then. But Kobe went 6 for 24 in a tight Game 7, shot poorly throughout and refused to pass the ball. Tatum had 12 assists yesterday. WAY better? If Perkins doesn't get injured late in that series and the Lakers destroyed the Celtics in rebounding in the 2nd half of Game 7, Kobe's legacy takes a hit.

Yes because Kobe was putting up 28 on about 40%. Tatum is putting up 17 on 31% from the field!!!!

So not only is he scoring way less. Hes way less efficient than even Kobe was. And Kobe did not shoot well that series. In an era where it was harder to score.

Its 2 games. But its hard to overstate how terrible Tatum has been in this series so far.

Not to mention Tatum has been horrible for this entire playoffs! Despite playing bad teams. Kobe was WAY better in previous rounds.

I'm not that guy who would suggest he's playing well, he almost had a triple double etc. He's playing poorly for sure. But his most frequent criticism is playing ISO ball. Everyone standing around watching him dribble. He hasn't been close as a shooter the whole playoffs. But getting 12 assists is nothing? How about the blind passes to Horford for crucial baskets in Indiana?
As to prior series, we started talking about this series only. In other words you can see a parallel with this individual series,, as opposed to the much more accomplished career of Kobe. Both played far below their standards.

[FarBeyondDriven]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Luka has been great, but if the Mavs lose and Luka gets an FMVP participation trophy, it's going to be for something MUCH more dominant than what he's doing now. Mavs are currently down 0-2, he's putting up 31 ppg on good but not otherworldly efficiency while being guarded mostly straight up, he has a 1.0 A/T ratio, and the Celtics are hunting him on defense on every possession and he's completely gassed by the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to put him down or anything, that's a REALLY impressive performance, but we're talking FMVP on the winning team performance, not FMVP on the losing team performance. If the Mavs lose the series 3-4 and are only in it because Luka is averaging 40 a game and the Celtics can't slow him even while leaving good shooters open and he suddenly figures out how to shut down Jaylen Brown on defense, then sure we're in the realm of possibility where the voters could plausibly break a decades long tradition and consider him over whoever is leading the Celtics, but he's absolutely not there at this moment. Realistically he's going up have to win the series to win FMVP.

Luka has not "been great". Stop putting stat-padders that put up counting stats while turning the ball over and being the worst defender on the court on a pedestal. The Mavs are one of the weakest Finals team in NBA history and with all the possessions and weak teammates he's of course going to put up numbers. But it doesn't mean he deserves FMVP when the team actually winning has deserving candidates.

[Slax]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Luka has been great, but if the Mavs lose and Luka gets an FMVP participation trophy, it's going to be for something MUCH more dominant than what he's doing now. Mavs are currently down 0-2, he's putting up 31 ppg on good but not otherworldly efficiency while being guarded mostly straight up, he has a 1.0 A/T ratio, and the Celtics are hunting him on defense on every possession and he's completely gassed by the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to put him down or anything, that's a REALLY impressive performance, but we're talking FMVP on the winning team performance, not FMVP on the losing team performance. If the Mavs lose the series 3-4 and are only in it because Luka is averaging 40 a game and the Celtics can't slow him even while leaving good shooters open and he suddenly figures out how to shut down Jaylen Brown on defense, then sure we're in the realm of possibility where the voters could plausibly break a decades long tradition and consider him over whoever is leading the Celtics, but he's absolutely not there at this moment. Realistically he's going up have to win the series to win FMVP.

Luka has not "been great". Stop putting stat-padders that put up counting stats while turning the ball over and being the worst defender on the court on a pedestal. The Mavs are one of the weakest Finals team in NBA history and with all the possessions and weak teammates he's of course going to put up numbers. But it doesn't mean he deserves FMVP when the team actually winning has deserving candidates.

Lol come on now, that's a massive overreaction the other way. Luka isn't just padding stats. Yeah his defense was bad and he's getting hunted, true he was stripped or threw the ball away a bunch, and sure he ran out of steam in the second half thanks to his poor fitness. But he also put the Mavs on his back in that first half while facing smothering individual defense that is game planned to stop him, and hit a bunch of very tough shots to score a lot of points on good efficiency. That type of performance is ABSOLUTELY good enough to win FMVP if your team wins - you don't have to be perfect at every aspect at the game, and if some other Mavs could step up enough for them to win games, Luka would still have been the main reason why they were in it and capable of winning. There's a reason this team that is lacking for supporting talent is even in the finals in the first place. It's just not nearly good enough to even be considered for FMVP when your team is actually losing.

[chrisab123]

The Mavs defense sucks. Hard. Brown is running circles around every single one of them.

But again, we were told about the Greatness of Mount Washington so clearly the Mavs are just toying with the Celtics right now. I mean PJ is better than Jrue defensively or at least thats what I was told on this board last week. Clearly the Mavs defenders are just luring the Celtics in before they lower the boom.

I don't know why Mavs fans thought those guys were going to contain the Celtics.

It was disrespectful to think the Celtics wouldn't perform better than the 3 teams they faced.

Not just the fans but the media bought into it.

When you're getting almost 30 from Jrue it really should bring into focus just how deep this team is.

Eh that isn't disrespectful. Whats disrespectful is the outright claiming that PJ Washington, Lively and Jones Jr are better defenders than Jrue or White. That's disrespectful haha

[Darth Celtic]

Luka has been great, but if the Mavs lose and Luka gets an FMVP participation trophy, it's going to be for something MUCH more dominant than what he's doing now. Mavs are currently down 0-2, he's putting up 31 ppg on good but not otherworldly efficiency while being guarded mostly straight up, he has a 1.0 A/T ratio, and the Celtics are hunting him on defense on every possession and he's completely gassed by the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to put him down or anything, that's a REALLY impressive performance, but we're talking FMVP on the winning team performance, not FMVP on the losing team performance. If the Mavs lose the series 3-4 and are only in it because Luka is averaging 40 a game and the Celtics can't slow him even while leaving good shooters open and he suddenly figures out how to shut down Jaylen Brown on defense, then sure we're in the realm of possibility where the voters could plausibly break a decades long tradition and consider him over whoever is leading the Celtics, but he's absolutely not there at this moment. Realistically he's going up have to win the series to win FMVP.

Luka has not "been great". Stop putting stat-padders that put up counting stats while turning the ball over and being the worst defender on the court on a pedestal. The Mavs are one of the weakest Finals team in NBA history and with all the possessions and weak teammates he's of course going to put up numbers. But it doesn't mean he deserves FMVP when the team actually winning has deserving candidates.

Lol come on now, that's a massive overreaction the other way. Luka isn't just padding stats. Yeah his defense was bad and he's getting hunted, true he was stripped or threw the ball away a bunch, and sure he ran out of steam in the second half thanks to his poor fitness. But he also put the Mavs on his back in that first half while facing smothering individual defense that is game planned to stop him, and hit a bunch of very tough shots to score a lot of points on good efficiency. That type of performance is ABSOLUTELY good enough to win FMVP if your team wins - you don't have to be perfect at every aspect at the game, and if some other Mavs could step up enough for them to win games, Luka would still have been the main reason why they were in it and capable of winning. There's a reason this team that is lacking for supporting talent is even in the finals in the first place. It's just not nearly good enough to even be considered for FMVP when your team is actually losing.

Boston is not playing a defense made to stop Luka. They are doubling or blitzing him less than any team this year. They switch and try and go one on one unless it's under three on the shot clock.

The defense is made to stop corner threes and open lobs and force Luka to use all his energy going 1 on 1

[Special_Puppy]

the Suns would be on the cusp of going up 2-0 rn

[Reeko]

Luka's gotta carry the Mavs to at least a game 6 if not 7 to even be in the running for FMVP.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

[Slax]

Luka has not "been great". Stop putting stat-padders that put up counting stats while turning the ball over and being the worst defender on the court on a pedestal. The Mavs are one of the weakest Finals team in NBA history and with all the possessions and weak teammates he's of course going to put up numbers. But it doesn't mean he deserves FMVP when the team actually winning has deserving candidates.

Lol come on now, that's a massive overreaction the other way. Luka isn't just padding stats. Yeah his defense was bad and he's getting hunted, true he was stripped or threw the ball away a bunch, and sure he ran out of steam in the second half thanks to his poor fitness. But he also put the Mavs on his back in that first half while facing smothering individual defense that is game planned to stop him, and hit a bunch of very tough shots to score a lot of points on good efficiency. That type of performance is ABSOLUTELY good enough to win FMVP if your team wins - you don't have to be perfect at every aspect at the game, and if some other Mavs could step up enough for them to win games, Luka would still have been the main reason why they were in it and capable of winning. There's a reason this team that is lacking for supporting talent is even in the finals in the first place. It's just not nearly good enough to even be considered for FMVP when your team is actually losing.

Boston is not playing a defense made to stop Luka. They are doubling or blitzing him less than any team this year. They switch and try and go one on one unless it's under three on the shot clock.

The defense is made to stop corner threes and open lobs and force Luka to use all his energy going 1 on 1

They're not doubling Luka on the perimeter and depending primarily on a switching scheme, but you're overstating this. A lot of the tactical battles have been about hiding KP from getting switched onto Luka on the perimeter, and also the Celtics were having their off ball defenders cheat off their guys a bit to close off driving lanes quickly last night, especially in the second half. It's one on one defense, and they're playing him basically straight up in a way that most other teams aren't capable of, but they're absolutely giving him defensive attention that isn't coming to any other player on the court.

[165bows]

So far it looks like Luka should be Finals MVP, from the losing team.

Really? 12 TO's in two games and the next time he tries on defense will be his first.

I would never vote for a player from the losing team to be MVP.

But I am not a fan of individual awards anyway.

Not sure his defensive effort has been that bad more just capacity issues there.

But to the larger point a 102 Ortg over two games and people talking “finals mvp on a losing team” is absolutely wild.

[Yinwest]

Nobody on the Mavs besides Luka and Kyrie would be getting playing time on the Celtics, LMAO. Hell, Kyrie might even have to come off the bench.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

[turnaroundJ]

The Celtics look great. As a Mavs fan, you just can give credit. Right now, we need a third guy on offense.
I'm curious to see how the Mavs adjust again and with Luka I always expect him to figure out a defense over the course of a series.
But yeah, his defense has been bad.

I'm happy for Jrue Holiday, since a lot people in here bashed him for the Bucks first round loss last playoffs.
Yeah he did not play great but suddenly there was this "shrinks in the playoffs"-narrative.
The man is already an NBA-champion, Olympic gold medalist and also just a great person.

it's easier to shrink as a 2nd/3rd option vs. his current 4th/5th option role

[sam_I_am]

Kobe had a bad Game 7. But he was WAY better than Tatum was this series. And it was a different era of basketball where scoring was harder.

Tatum has shot terribly. Right now he is the last of the top 6 Celtics I want to see shooting an outside shot. But there is a real comparison with Kobe here. I understand it is a little easier to score now than it was then. But Kobe went 6 for 24 in a tight Game 7, shot poorly throughout and refused to pass the ball. Tatum had 12 assists yesterday. WAY better? If Perkins doesn't get injured late in that series and the Lakers destroyed the Celtics in rebounding in the 2nd half of Game 7, Kobe's legacy takes a hit.

Yes because Kobe was putting up 28 on about 40%. Tatum is putting up 17 on 31% from the field!!!!

So not only is he scoring way less. Hes way less efficient than even Kobe was. And Kobe did not shoot well that series. In an era where it was harder to score.

Its 2 games. But its hard to overstate how terrible Tatum has been in this series so far.

Not to mention Tatum has been horrible for this entire playoffs! Despite playing bad teams. Kobe was WAY better in previous rounds.

How good was Kobe in the playoffs when he was 26? No Shaq. Didn’t make them.
How about 27. First round elimination.
How about 28? First round elimination.

If you want to compare Kobe in 2008 -2010 when he finally carried a team on his own without Shaq to the finals to a 26 yo Tatum…..that’s fine. The fact that you want to says all you need to about Tatum’s greatness.

[whatisacenter]

Read on Twitter

It's funny, I found myself wondering why they weren't trying to run the PnR to get Luka and Kyrie to switch onto the ball handler at times and now I see why.

[CD_41]

The Celtics look great. As a Mavs fan, you just can give credit. Right now, we need a third guy on offense.
I'm curious to see how the Mavs adjust again and with Luka I always expect him to figure out a defense over the course of a series.
But yeah, his defense has been bad.

I'm happy for Jrue Holiday, since a lot people in here bashed him for the Bucks first round loss last playoffs.
Yeah he did not play great but suddenly there was this "shrinks in the playoffs"-narrative.
The man is already an NBA-champion, Olympic gold medalist and also just a great person.

it's easier to shrink as a 2nd/3rd option vs. his current 4th/5th option role

Oh I love when people think that performances are monocausal.
Yeah, must be only the nerves.
Opponent personnel, opponent strategy, missing your MVP-teammate for a couple of games, and the expected statistical variance does not play of part, of course.

I'm always amazed how less nuance some takes are in here.

[ajones9219]

Doncic adjusts, blows Boston out of their building.

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