2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[ken6199]

"Curry won 11 more games than Harden that year. This year Harden has 8 games on Westbrook"

And??? Dude you lost me right there. I am out.

[PeptoKlepto]

It has been said numerous time, by others, and by me.

14-15 Houston was 2nd in West, this year OKC is 7th in West. You cannot honestly say if Harden wins 14-15 Westbrook wins 16-17 under the same concept.

Same goes fo AD. His team is not even in the playoff. I see you also agreed on that.

I didn't say Harden deserved it over Curry 3 seasons ago. I said he EQUALLY deserve as much as Curry, not like some claimed 'Curry easily won it' or 'Curry crushed him in the MVP race'.

Arbitrary threshold. Curry won 11 more games than Harden that year. This year Harden has 8 games on Westbrook. Curry's more wins are actually more impressive in that the more wins you accumulate, the harder the next one becomes. It's harder going from 50 to 60 wins than it is going from 40 to 50 wins and so on.

Add in the fact that that year their off court ratings were close at a 1.8 rating difference...meanwhile off court difference between WB and Harden this year is a whopping 15.

So not only is WB carrying a heavier load, his team is actually closer to the Rockets than Harden was to the Warriors in 14-15.

What Rockets fans are trying to do is have it both ways. Sorry, not gonna fly.

IT NOT ABOUT BEING CLOSE IT'S ABOUT HAVING A GOOD RECORD AND SEED

I don't even think Harden should've won, you're just making your own argument and not listening to what people are saying.

I'm not saying that you did, just don't be a hypocrite when it comes to the WB vs. Harden discussion.

[PeptoKlepto]

"Curry won 11 more games than Harden that year. This year Harden has 8 games on Westbrook"

And??? Dude you lost me right there. I am out.

You're creating an arbitrary threshold and disputing the hard facts, but okay.

[Patches Perry]

What would the current argument be for Westbrook over Harden?

Cause right now I don't see any way that he would deserve the award over Harden.

Triple double novelty. You can say triple doubles are arbitrary, and I agree, but to the basketball world triple doubles are a thing. They are meaningful. Any time a player gets a triple double, it's mentioned. 20pts/10rebs/10asts gets more attention than 30pts/9rebs/9asts.

Harden is the MVP right now and is arguably superior to Westbrook statistically in addition to the team success, but the fact that Westbrook is doing something previously thought to be unthinkable is a compelling argument in his favor.

As long as Westbrook is averaging a triple double, he has a pretty good chance at MVP. If he drops even a hair below in assists or rebounds, he has zero chance.

[K_chile22]

Arbitrary threshold. Curry won 11 more games than Harden that year. This year Harden has 8 games on Westbrook. Curry's more wins are actually more impressive in that the more wins you accumulate, the harder the next one becomes. It's harder going from 50 to 60 wins than it is going from 40 to 50 wins and so on.

Add in the fact that that year their off court ratings were close at a 1.8 rating difference...meanwhile off court difference between WB and Harden this year is a whopping 15.

So not only is WB carrying a heavier load, his team is actually closer to the Rockets than Harden was to the Warriors in 14-15.

What Rockets fans are trying to do is have it both ways. Sorry, not gonna fly.

IT NOT ABOUT BEING CLOSE IT'S ABOUT HAVING A GOOD RECORD AND SEED

I don't even think Harden should've won, you're just making your own argument and not listening to what people are saying.

I'm not saying that you did, just don't be a hypocrite when it comes to the WB vs. Harden discussion.

You're acting like Harden vs Curry in 2015 and Westbrook vs Harden in 2017 are exactly the same. They aren't. They are completely different situations. The general idea is the same but the actual circumstance is different. You're making a false equivalence.

[dreadhead_htx]

You all still blinded by triple doubles and sleeping on Kawhi.

The streak he is on right now scoring wise is superb. Add to that, the Spurs record and him being by far the best defender of all candidates (if not the league) and he may just surprise everyone thinking it's between Harden and Westbrook.

Kawhi's last 5 games:

33.4 points per game @ 64% fg
11-21 threes @ 52% 3p
5 rebounds per game
3.2 assists per game
0.8 blocks per game
1.8 steals per game

And the best stat?

6 turnovers. That's total. 6 turnovers in those 5 games he had the ball all of that time.

MVP form right there.

He is the most efficient and also averaging by far less turnovers than Westbrook and Harden. Kawhi is the only player in the league avegraging over 20pts shooting 40% 3's and 90% ft's and he is only getting better.

I said the same thing and thought it was just me. kawhi has been an absolute beast as of late but everyones mostly drooling over the triple dubs now. I hope harden gets it but i wouldnt be mad or surprised if kawhi made it interesting.. My top three is James harden, Kawhi leonard, russel westbrook. im a big fan of kawhis game but hes being slept on alot probably because he's so quiet and spurs don't get much media coverage. while kawhi was lighting up denver the other night one of denvers jerk commentators made one of the most idiotic comments I've heard live in awhile regarding kawhis mvp chances saying that kawhi isn't flashy enough for mvp lol idiot.. but at the same time he had a point. ppl drool over inflated numbers and style. I notice kawhi only does what the team needs and thats it. he doesnt take rebounds from his big men, throw up a ton of shots in garbage time, or talk trash. he'll go and get an easy 25-30 and play hard nosed defense quietly. Speaking of media attention with the streak he's on If he goes off for 35-40 saturday on abc and beat lebron n cleveland. watch how many jump on that wagon

[PeptoKlepto]

IT NOT ABOUT BEING CLOSE IT'S ABOUT HAVING A GOOD RECORD AND SEED

I don't even think Harden should've won, you're just making your own argument and not listening to what people are saying.

I'm not saying that you did, just don't be a hypocrite when it comes to the WB vs. Harden discussion.

You're acting like Harden vs Curry in 2015 and Westbrook vs Harden in 2017 are exactly the same. They aren't. They are completely different situations. The general idea is the same but the actual circumstance is different. You're making a false equivalence.

It doesn't have to be exactly the same for me to compare the underlying logic being used.

Rockets fans in 2014: Harden should win the MVP because he's carrying a bigger load than Curry.

Rockets fans in 2017: Harden should win the MVP despite the fact that Westbrook is carrying the bigger role.

[K_chile22]

I'm not saying that you did, just don't be a hypocrite when it comes to the WB vs. Harden discussion.

You're acting like Harden vs Curry in 2015 and Westbrook vs Harden in 2017 are exactly the same. They aren't. They are completely different situations. The general idea is the same but the actual circumstance is different. You're making a false equivalence.

It doesn't have to be exactly the same for me to compare the underlying logic being used.

Rockets fans in 2014: Harden should win the MVP because he's carrying a bigger load than Curry.

Rockets fans in 2017: Harden should win the MVP despite the fact that Westbrook is carrying the bigger role.

Rockets fans in 2014: Harden should win the MVP because he's carrying a bigger load than Curry to the second seed and 56 wins.

Rockets fans in 2017: Harden should win the MVP despite the fact that Westbrook is carrying the bigger role, because Westbrook's team is the six seed and won't break 50 wins.

That Rockets team, when accounting for all their injuries, probably had less talent than OKC now, or at least the same, and got to 56.

Once again, just explaining how the two situations are not the same, I think Curry was the rightful MVP.

Would also appreciate it if you would stop generalizing a fan base. As a Rockets fan I've made my position clear, and most of the people I see on RealGM saying Harden should've won aren't even Rockets fans, so please stop painting with such a broad stroke.

[PeptoKlepto]

You're acting like Harden vs Curry in 2015 and Westbrook vs Harden in 2017 are exactly the same. They aren't. They are completely different situations. The general idea is the same but the actual circumstance is different. You're making a false equivalence.

It doesn't have to be exactly the same for me to compare the underlying logic being used.

Rockets fans in 2014: Harden should win the MVP because he's carrying a bigger load than Curry.

Rockets fans in 2017: Harden should win the MVP despite the fact that Westbrook is carrying the bigger role.

Rockets fans in 2014: Harden should win the MVP because he's carrying a bigger load than Curry to the second seed and 56 wins.

Rockets fans in 2017: Harden should win the MVP despite the fact that Westbrook is carrying the bigger role, because Westbrook's team is the six seed and won't break 50 wins.

That Rockets team, when accounting for all their injuries, probably had less talent than OKC now, or at least the same, and got to 56.

Once again, just explaining how the two situations are not the same, I think Curry was the rightful MVP.

Would also appreciate it if you would stop generalizing a fan base. As a Rockets fan I've made my position clear, and most of the people I see on RealGM saying Harden should've won aren't even Rockets fans, so please stop painting with such a broad stroke.

And I've made it clear that I'm not talking about all Rockets fans. If this doesn't apply to you, why do you keep responding/refuting my posts?

If you agree that Curry was the rightful MVP in 14-15, then it's a non-issue for me. I'm disputing the hypocrisy of the people that didn't and want Harden MVP in '17.

[MrCheerios]

"Curry won 11 more games than Harden that year. This year Harden has 8 games on Westbrook"

And??? Dude you lost me right there. I am out.

You're creating an arbitrary threshold and disputing the hard facts, but okay.

You realize that the season is only half over? An 8 game lead at this juncture is huge.

[Jurassic_Park]

at what point does KD get consideration for MVP? How many games ahead does GS have to be compared to the 2nd best record?

After tonight GS will be 7 games ahead of houston!

[MR28]

at what point does KD get consideration for MVP? How many games ahead does GS have to be compared to the 2nd best record?

After tonight GS will be 7 games ahead of houston!

I don't think he does. They won 73 games last year without him.

[Ballerhogger]

KD may just win it stament blowout win 32 pts. Like a jog in park against the Rockets. Harden 17 pts

[K_chile22]

at what point does KD get consideration for MVP? How many games ahead does GS have to be compared to the 2nd best record?

After tonight GS will be 7 games ahead of houston!

Narrative is too big to voters, and KD really has nothing there. He's been the best individual player this year tho, imo

[PizzaSteve]

Interestingly Oscar got only one MVP nod despite achieving 3d over entire season (1st ever) and almost 4 consecutive years of barely missing the triple double average. Gotta be more than stats. There is precident, and he was a serious team leader. Team success traditionally matters a lot.

[Ballerhogger]

at what point does KD get consideration for MVP? How many games ahead does GS have to be compared to the 2nd best record?

After tonight GS will be 7 games ahead of houston!

Narrative is too big to voters, and KD really has nothing there. He's been the best individual player this year tho, imo

The narrative would be KD is clear and cut the best player on the league and made the Warriors even better. Also depends where houston lands and how Harden performs post all star break

[bondom34]

at what point does KD get consideration for MVP? How many games ahead does GS have to be compared to the 2nd best record?

After tonight GS will be 7 games ahead of houston!

Narrative is too big to voters, and KD really has nothing there. He's been the best individual player this year tho, imo

The narrative would be KD is clear and cut the best player on the league and made the Warriors even better. Also depends where houston lands and how Harden performs post all star break

They'd have to win 74 first.

[SpreeS]

KD against 3 MVP candidates LJB RW JH in last 3 games

31 pts 7 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl 2.7 blk 1.3 tur 70% fg in 31 min and +25 +/-

MVP

[Ballerhogger]

Narrative is too big to voters, and KD really has nothing there. He's been the best individual player this year tho, imo

The narrative would be KD is clear and cut the best player on the league and made the Warriors even better. Also depends where houston lands and how Harden performs post all star break

They'd have to win 74 first.

The Warriors are different animal this year. KD gives them another inside and outside scorer + better wing defense and rebounding.

[bondom34]

The narrative would be KD is clear and cut the best player on the league and made the Warriors even better. Also depends where houston lands and how Harden performs post all star break

They'd have to win 74 first.

The Warriors are different animal this year. KD gives them another inside and outside scorer + better wing defense and rebounding.

You said make them better. That's how he'd make them distinctly better.

Unless they win 74 plus, he's got zero shot