Rondo is overrated

[humblebum]

Again, people are just reciting regular season statistics.

Rondo doesn't play hard in the regular season and that's not a compliment to him.

The Rondo you see in the playoffs is who Rondo is he just chooses to basically coast through the regular season.

It's unfortunate but he seems to pretty consistently elevate his game in the playoffs. In the regular season he's a top 5 PG one day and not even in the discussion for top 20 the next. That's why there are so many "haters." Lots of fans of other teams only see the lazy Rondo until the playoffs and who knows if fans of other teams are even watching that closely or if they're looking for the negative in Rondo's game to confirm what they believe about him.

Either way, Rondo is somewhat of a prick but he's certainly a top 5 PG in the league based on talent. It's the effort that's really a question.

[DaGreatLewdini]

Great retort! I found your statistical analysis profound. You definitely proved your point... Meanwhile, here's actual proof NBA GM's on their preference of point guards and Derrick, Chris, Russell, and Deron were all in front of Rondo... http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-g ... index.html

You said no GM is taking Rondo with a jumper over Rose, CP3, Deron and Westbrook.
Then you proceed to post the results of a GM survey asking who they thought was the best PG in the NBA, which says nothing about including Rondo having a jumper.

The thing is my statement about GM's not choosing Rondo (even with a jumper) over Rose, Paul, Williams and even Westbrook because is an example of a hypothetical situation because Rondo with a consistent jumper also happens to be a hypothetical situation.

[DaGreatLewdini]

The fact of the matter is I posted in this thread to pose the question of how Rondo gets coined as being a "pure point guard" while other PG's in the league get crucified for being "shoot first" PG's when that is what they must do in order for their respective teams to be successful. For that reason I feel Rondo gets overrated. He's an excellent distributor, but he is the product of the Celtic's system and the players that he surrounded by. For Christ sakes, as a professional basketball player you better score upwards of 40 points when a team plays almost 10 feet off of you daring you to shoot (Game 2 ECF 2012). Rondo does not even face the defensive pressure most PG's do.

[TheKingOfVa360]

I'm shocked people still think Deron is still in the conversation for best PG.

Me too, he has proven he isn't a leader or efficient. Dude isn't relevant.

[Bertrob]

The fact of the matter is I posted in this thread to pose the question of how Rondo gets coined as being a "pure point guard" while other PG's in the league get crucified for being "shoot first" PG's when that is what they must do in order for their respective teams to be successful. For that reason I feel Rondo gets overrated. He's an excellent distributor, but he is the product of the Celtic's system and the players that he surrounded by. For Christ sakes, as a professional basketball player you better score upwards of 40 points when a team plays almost 10 feet off of you daring you to shoot (Game 2 ECF 2012). Rondo does not even face the defensive pressure most PG's do.

Did you watch the whole game? They stopped giving him ten feet halfway through the 2nd quarter

[DaGreatLewdini]

Thread created by a Laker fan and Derrick Rose nuthuggers trying to downplay other good PG's accomplishments.

Stay Classy Realgm.

Thinks player A is better than player B...must be a player A nuthugger. RealGm logic for you!

[DaGreatLewdini]

The fact of the matter is I posted in this thread to pose the question of how Rondo gets coined as being a "pure point guard" while other PG's in the league get crucified for being "shoot first" PG's when that is what they must do in order for their respective teams to be successful. For that reason I feel Rondo gets overrated. He's an excellent distributor, but he is the product of the Celtic's system and the players that he surrounded by. For Christ sakes, as a professional basketball player you better score upwards of 40 points when a team plays almost 10 feet off of you daring you to shoot (Game 2 ECF 2012). Rondo does not even face the defensive pressure most PG's do.

Did you watch the whole game? They stopped giving him ten feet halfway through the 2nd quarter

But yet they won't change their game plan http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/st ... heat-plans ...hmmm maybe it's because that game was an apparition and he really can't shoot.

[sca]

The the big issue with Rondo is how ridiculously inefficient he is in scoring the ball- He was 53rd out of 67 qualified PG's in TS% this year and .478. Last year he was 50th out of 64 at .494. He's never had a PER higher than 19.

With those numbers, I don't care how great of a playmaker he is, there just is not a way he can be considered a top flight guy at his position. This year, boston finished 24th in offensive efficiency. Last year they were tied for 17th. Rondo gets his assists, but a great number of them come in the most inefficient way possible- the long two point jump shot. He can be a magician with the ball at times and sometimes in transition, but the bulk of the Celtics' offense is Rondo standing at the top of the key dribbling and waiting for a shooter to come off of a screen or running pick and pop with a fantastic shooting big. For example, if as a pg, Rondo "initiates" 20 plays and gets 7 assists, but the Celtics only score 18 points because almost all of the possessions end with long twos, how effective has he really been?

If Rondo plays like he is in the Miami series, then of course he is a top 5 type of guy. But if he is the guy that has shown up in the last 2 regular seasons, his inefficiency scoring the ball is a huge liability and is something that cannot be ignored.

That's because the Celtics have no post scoring option or slashers. Pierce, Allen, Garnett and Bass are getting most of their points shooting 15+ feet jumpers. That's not because Rondo dominates the ball, that's because they're some of the slowest players at their positions at this point of their careers. Also, their bad ORTG is mainly attributed to their lack of offensive rebounding (which has nothing to do with Rondo). Their offensive rebounding is historically bad, because
a. They want to get back to defense as soon as possible (again, slow legs)
b. Their bigs (Bass, Garnett) operate from midrange as both have little-to-none post game. Unless Rondo makes some lob passes, scoring from the paint is very hard for the Celtic bigs.

Also, on the Celtics and their low scoring outputs:
- They still run the same big three plays they ran back when they got their championship. Their plays are especially dependant on Ray Allen running off screens, attracting the attention of the defense, decoying. Plays like these slow their pace down, hence the low scoring games. Notice how the Celtics raised their play when Ray Allen went down and Avery Bradley was inserted to the lineup instead.

- They have little-to-none slashers and no reliable post scoring option. Shooting jumpers is an inefficient way to score points, but it saves the energy of the big three, and it's not like they have many other options anyway.

- When Rondo doesn't play, Pierce dominates the ball much more, taking on the point forward role, something he can't be expected to do consistently at this point. Rondo makes the big three look better just for the conditioning alone; when he plays, the old legs have more opportunities to autopilot and save their energy for defense.

There's absolutely no evidence behind the theory that he's a "product" of the big three.

- Sam Cassell (granted, he was old, but he knew about the game), Eddie House, Stephon Marbury (another oldie), Nate Robinson, Delonte West, Carlos Arroyo, E'Twaun Moore, Avery Bradley and Keyon Dooling have all had the duty of making plays while playing with the big three, and if it were as easy as some of the posters here make it out to be, then at least one of them would've taken advantage of this and raised their assist averages & earned themselves a hefty contract, no?

- Rondo has actually raised his game whenever one or more of the big three was/were out. He also had a 16 assists game at the end of the season, playing with all-time greats such as Greg Stiemsma, Avery Bradley, Brandon Bass and Sasha freakin' Pavlovic.

I know that most of you hate the guy's guts, but at least try making sense while criticizing him.

[Mamba Venom]

Rose (pre-injury)
CP3
D-Wil
Westbrook
Parker
Rondo
Nash

[humblebum]

Parker over Rondo is questionable at best.

D-Will and Westbrook each have faults of their own and frankly having those players over Rondo is at least partially a preference thing rather than some cold hard fact.

My list for 2012 (considering Rose was injured):

CP3
Rondo/Westbrook
Parker

D-Will/Nash

[Infinite Llamas]

The the big issue with Rondo is how ridiculously inefficient he is in scoring the ball- He was 53rd out of 67 qualified PG's in TS% this year and .478. Last year he was 50th out of 64 at .494. He's never had a PER higher than 19.

With those numbers, I don't care how great of a playmaker he is, there just is not a way he can be considered a top flight guy at his position. This year, boston finished 24th in offensive efficiency. Last year they were tied for 17th. Rondo gets his assists, but a great number of them come in the most inefficient way possible- the long two point jump shot. He can be a magician with the ball at times and sometimes in transition, but the bulk of the Celtics' offense is Rondo standing at the top of the key dribbling and waiting for a shooter to come off of a screen or running pick and pop with a fantastic shooting big. For example, if as a pg, Rondo "initiates" 20 plays and gets 7 assists, but the Celtics only score 18 points because almost all of the possessions end with long twos, how effective has he really been?

If Rondo plays like he is in the Miami series, then of course he is a top 5 type of guy. But if he is the guy that has shown up in the last 2 regular seasons, his inefficiency scoring the ball is a huge liability and is something that cannot be ignored.

His playoff PER is always elite or close to it. I'll take a higher playoff PER than a regular season PER any day of the week.

[ndee1234]

OP is just a mad Laker fan. Is it because the Celtics are still in it and fighting while your team is already out fishing?

[albo23]

Rondo gets 10ppg. Overrated.

/thread

[Tave]

I think the better question is where would those that don't agree Rondo is a top-5 point guard place him?

My hunch is 90% of us put these PGs in our top-7 (in no particular order):

Rose
Paul
Westbrook
Nash
Parker
Rondo
Williams

A small minority might plug in Rubio, Wall, Irving, Lawson, Dragic, etc... but let's assume that those 7 are more or less consistently ranked at the top.


If you can admit that, then it shouldn't bother ANYONE what order people put them on or who is #5 versus #6 or #7. I mean come on people. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it: hell it's fun to rank players and discuss their relative merits and strengths and weaknesses. But let's try not to get bent out of shape. Everyone has their personal preferences and favorite guys, it isn't an exact science.


HOW DARE YOU PUT RONDO IN THE TOP 5? HE IS CLEARLY #6! I'M SURPRISED A MORON LIKE YOU CAN EVEN TIE YOUR SHOES!

Or conversely,

HOW DARE YOU PUT RONDO AT #7 AND NOT IN THE TOP 5? I BET YOU EAT PAINT CHIPS FOR BREAKFAST!


Don't people realize how silly that sounds?

[sca]

Rondo gets 10ppg. Overrated.

/thread

I hate it when people finish their posts with "/thread." I hate it even more when they make no sense to begin with.

[albo23]

Rondo gets 10ppg. Overrated.

/thread

I hate it when people finish their posts with "/thread." I hate it even more when they make no sense to begin with.

Rondo gets 10ppg.

^^^ This doesn't make sense? What doesn't make sense about a simple statistic? You may need some help.

[Darain]

Question who gets hated more? Carmelo or Rondo?

[wjun15]

Put any good PG on the celts and theyd average 10+ assists...especially with all the great shooters...even their PFs are great shooters. But what separates him is his defense. I'd like to see if Rondo would do the same on the clippers

Maybe it's time for you to watch Celtics games. Seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hell I can average 3-4 assists just standing and passing to a Ray Allen in the corner with no one guarding me

Garnett and Bass are EXCELLENT shooters for big men.

[sca]

Rondo gets 10ppg. Overrated.

/thread

I hate it when people finish their posts with "/thread." I hate it even more when they make no sense to begin with.

Rondo gets 10ppg.

^^^ This doesn't make sense? What doesn't make sense about a simple statistic? You may need some help.

Your post doesn't consist of a stat only. I think you might need to actually read the things you're typing.

[sca]

Put any good PG on the celts and theyd average 10+ assists...especially with all the great shooters...even their PFs are great shooters. But what separates him is his defense. I'd like to see if Rondo would do the same on the clippers

Maybe it's time for you to watch Celtics games. Seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hell I can average 3-4 assists just standing and passing to a Ray Allen in the corner with no one guarding me

Garnett and Bass are EXCELLENT shooters for big men.

Posts like these are why people don't take Rondo haters seriously.