2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

[QPR]

This is what I was saying last night. OKC is 23-8 without Westbrook and the Heat are 10-7 without Wade. You look at the standings now and OKC has 3 more wins than Miami and the same amount of losses. Durant's numbers are better by comparison. His conference is tougher.

Every factor is in Durant's favour except the "what have you done for me lately?" category.

[James Rustles]

This is what I was saying last night. OKC is 23-8 without Westbrook and the Heat are 10-7 without Wade. You look at the standings now and OKC has 3 more wins than Miami and the same amount of losses. Durant's numbers are better by comparison. His conference is tougher.

Every factor is in Durant's favour except the "what have you done for me lately?" category.

Agreed. And that's all I was saying last night, but everyone was acting like it was total blasphemy. Guess people were just caught up in the hype after a performance like that.

Durant just dropped 43 in three quarters shooting 14-20. We'll see how much media attention he gets tomorrow.

[koolcrud]

Absolutely. Tonight's game doesn't move LeBron either way in the MVP race for me especially after what he did last night. If he plays well against SA and CHI he will redeem himself.

I am just going to enjoy this race without getting hung up on the outcome. I think LeBron naysayers focus too much on nitpicking him that I can't help but wonder if it takes away from their enjoyment of the game. I hope these two phenomenal talents beast out and give us a lot to discuss, analyze, and marvel at.

Not at all, at least for me. He makes a great villain, I was a big fan before he ditched his hometown team. Rooting for Durant to overtake LeBron in every way is some of the most enjoyable time I've spent watching basketball. And taking shots at LeBron when he sucks, like he certainly did tonight, is part of the fun!

Forgive me, this is not a direct shot at you, but that attitude in general is quite pathetic and also clearly makes all your arguments invalid due to the blatant bias.

Arguments aren't invalid based on who makes them. Bias is irrelevant. And who isn't biased? Anyone who's a fan of a team is biased. I'm not an NBA journalist. Anyone who's honest with themselves and cares about this game is biased in some way or another. The idea that we should throw out the opinions of Heat fans and OKC fans on this thing, the two fan bases that know these players by far the best, based on bias, is preposterous.

[rcontador]

Congrats to KD for retaking the lead in the MVP race.

Better record is the key. Durant has that now.

I really think Durant will win as long as the Thunder are within ~3 wins of the Heat at the end of the season.

Because everything else -- narrative, individual stats, voter fatigue -- is in his favor.

[dakomish23]

The NBA fans missed on Lebron vs Kobe in their primes. We're lucky we're seeing Durant & Lebron battle it out for the next 5 - 7 years. If Durant gets a couple, this could be Bird / Magic 2.0.

Just happy to have good basketball to watch outside of MSG :-/

[EArl]

Lebron with a bad game and a loss. Hows his nose. I heard it re-broke. Will he play the next game. My fantasy team needs him.

[jc23]

I still got KD, people have short memories.

[theokie]

I have told you that referees will keep it going for Durant it is redicuolus how a jump shooter like Durant gets so much ft! I would say disgusting

LeBron has taken 593 shots within 16 feet and 489 within 8 feet.
Durant has taken 718 shots within 16 feet and 426 within 8 feet.

Its not that ridiculous. Players get fouled when they get close to the rim, and that includes runners and floaters or shots from the post just outside of layup/dunk range. Durant's clearly not just a jump shooter, if you think that then you haven't watched OKC play for a while.

[Hawk]

Lebron with a bad game and a loss. Hows his nose. I heard it re-broke. Will he play the next game. My fantasy team needs him.

Good news

Updating a previous report, James did not re-break his nose in Tuesday's loss to the Rockets, NBC 6 Sports reports.

[JesusHCoxMd]

In the end it will come down to who's got a better team record.

[Benedict_Boozer]

In the end it will come down to who's got a better team record.

Yup. Pretty much this. Have heard multiple media outlets frame it that way. Both players putting up MVP caliber seasons, both have missed their 2nd option -> Westbrook for an extended period of time, Wade in and out of the lineup all year. Team record will be the difference.

Reminds me of the CP3 vs Kobe MVP race, team record might have basically decided that one in reality.

[fallacy]

This is what I was saying last night. OKC is 23-8 without Westbrook and the Heat are 10-7 without Wade. You look at the standings now and OKC has 3 more wins than Miami and the same amount of losses. Durant's numbers are better by comparison. His conference is tougher.

Every factor is in Durant's favour except the "what have you done for me lately?" category.

Agreed. And that's all I was saying last night, but everyone was acting like it was total blasphemy. Guess people were just caught up in the hype after a performance like that.

Durant just dropped 43 in three quarters shooting 14-20. We'll see how much media attention he gets tomorrow.

Durant getting attention now? Not happening

[ThePersianFreak]

What is this short memory BS you're talking about?
It's not like KD's been the best player for 4 month and LeBron's been better for only 2 weeks!
Before January LeBron had better stats, KD had a monster january and had a comfortable lead, LeBron's january was good but KD's was otherworldy.
In February, LeBron was otherworldy, KD was very good (better than LeBron's January, but his efficiency was very bad compare to LeBron).
At the moment, they have similar stats, some in favour of Durant (Scoring, W/S and rebounding), some in favour of LeBron (TS% EF% and ASTs).
Both Westbrook and Wade have missed alot of games. their team record is slose.
It is very close and team record is the deciding factor.

Oh look who's back, welcome back fallacy. good to see you after 2-3 weeks absent.

This is what I was saying last night. OKC is 23-8 without Westbrook and the Heat are 10-7 without Wade. You look at the standings now and OKC has 3 more wins than Miami and the same amount of losses. Durant's numbers are better by comparison. His conference is tougher.

Every factor is in Durant's favour except the "what have you done for me lately?" category.

Team records:

46-15
vs
43-15

Close. so close that it can change tomorrow night.

LeBron's TS% 2.1% better than Durant and THAT IS ALOT!!!

LeBron's EF% in much much better than Durant.

More Asts, More Stls, Less TOs.

PER difference 0.3

Wade's been missing games on regular basis.

And also, LeBron's been better lately (as you said, but it's not the only favourable thing for LeBron).

IT IS VERY VERY VERY CLOSE, and if you're thinking otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.

[theokie]

I really don't like determining this race solely on team record like many have suggested. There is much more going on that that. Giving it to the guy who's team is 60-22 instead of 59-23 is just lazy.

What happens when Miami or OKC goes into the last week of the year with no playoff implications on the line? They rest a couple of guys and then one falls a game behind the other. Thats what should determine MVP?

[ThePersianFreak]

You're right. but when the race is tight (at least when media guys think it is) teams records is the deciding factor.
Alot of those guys that have a vote, think it is very tight, and almost all of them are saying the same thing. better team record and quality of production the rest of the way.

[Space Dracula]

The ebb and flow of these discussions will vary based on what's happening 'now'. LeBron has had a fantastic run lately, so naturally he's getting some recognition for that. Durant had a month for the ages where he was considered a lock. Now the talking heads are leaning the other way a bit.

The moral of the story: don't get too caught up in the last 'X' games. I think when people do that they tend to operate under the assumption that the hot streak will continue. As a whole body, the two seem statistically close. But Durant is over .300 WS/48. Something LeBron achieved (and still could achieve this year) last year and is an impressive cutoff for me. There are other factors of course but that sways me a bit to Durant's side. Especially considering both have had key players miss time. But LeBron is more than capable of finishing the season in his fashion and mucking everything up.

[QPR]

The "both missing their second option" narrative should be massively weighted in Durant's favour tbf.

[WinisKing]

Lebron thanks #Pacer2ndseedprogram

[MisterHibachi]

Miami, OKC, and Indy now all tied in the loss column.

[rich316]

Man, the last 20 games are going to be absolutely thrilling. We are in for an incredible 4 months of basketball.