How good do you see Andrew wiggins being?

[Prokorov]

I think his FLOOR is a first team all defensive player who scores 12-15 PPG. I don't want to speculate on his ceiling because we all know how much potential he has.

i really dont see this enormous superstar potential. what exactly is it based off of?

-he doesnt have unique size
-he doesnt have an elite/unique skill
- he doesnt have a unique combination of size/skill

he is basically just an elite athelete, and there are alot of elite athletes these days

[Nazrmohamed]

Wiggins sets the Kansas freshman scoring record, while leading his team in points, drawing fouls at an elite rate, despite basically having no set role in Self's system:

"He dribbles like a toddler. He will never be great on offense. He can't finish. His progression is horrible. He doesn't have a killer instinct."

Jabari scores essentially the same amount of points on almost identical efficiency at Duke:

"Go-to scorer. The most complete player in the draft. The second coming of Carmelo Anthony. Born leader."


SMH, you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

RealGM: you know it's possible to like both guys and talk about their relative strengths/weaknesses in a rational manner without making ridiculous attacks on the other dude, no matter which you prefer?

And if you really want a good laugh, go back and read the threads that were created after the WV and OKState games where Wiggins dropped 41 and 30.

This prisoner-of-the-moment mindset is truly infuriating at times.

I guess you got a point but perception is reality. Parker is scouted every time he plays with a far weaker team than Wiggins had in my opinion. I can see how it goes both ways though as with a better team you cant show out but maybe it'd look different if Wiggins seems to have that certain it factor about him. Get pissed, take over....something. And really look, we're talking about either pick one or two unless exum skips. So its not like anyones saying either will suck. I just feel like Parker has primary to secondary option written all over him while Wiggins looks more like a secondary to third.

[j-ragg]

I think his FLOOR is a first team all defensive player who scores 12-15 PPG. I don't want to speculate on his ceiling because we all know how much potential he has.

So there's no way he won't be on the All-Defensive First Team. What's his ceiling? Best defender of all time?

Sure why not. He has the physical tools.

You don't think Wiggins will wind up on some All defensive teams? I don't see what is so about it, but I guess that is the 8th grade world we live in today. EMOTICONS!

I don't think you have any idea what a floor is, friend.

[skones]

I think his FLOOR is a first team all defensive player who scores 12-15 PPG. I don't want to speculate on his ceiling because we all know how much potential he has.

So there's no way he won't be on the All-Defensive First Team. What's his ceiling? Best defender of all time?

Sure why not. He has the physical tools.

You don't think Wiggins will wind up on some All defensive teams? I don't see what is so about it, but I guess that is the 8th grade world we live in today. EMOTICONS!

It's "LOL" because saying a guy's floor is a "first team all defensive player" is absolutely ridiculous. Do you have any idea how many guys were supposed to be good defenders because they were in college and had tools that translated to the NBA? A LOT of them. Rudy Gay is a prime example.

[Billy Shears]

The whole alpha debate looks particularly stupid weeks after a team led by Tim Duncan won the 'ship (again) and K. Leonard was finals MVP. Here's a hint for those of you too young to remember: Watch some old Bulls highlights. Do you see guys other Jordan taking big shots at important times??? You should unless you're just watching Jordan youtube mix tapes. I mean the actual playoff games. Guess who often passed those guys the ball to take the last shot?

This whole alpha nonsense is completely tied in with the entire Michael Jordan false narrative. Basketball is a team sport, you wanna win titles all by yourself?....time to take up tennis.

[East Bay Sports]

So there's no way he won't be on the All-Defensive First Team. What's his ceiling? Best defender of all time?

Sure why not. He has the physical tools.

You don't think Wiggins will wind up on some All defensive teams? I don't see what is so about it, but I guess that is the 8th grade world we live in today. EMOTICONS!

I don't think you have any idea what a floor is, friend.

Any player's "floor" is getting hit by a bus tomorrow. That's why I hate the idea of "floors" and "ceilings"

[Hans Embiid]

I think his FLOOR is a first team all defensive player who scores 12-15 PPG. I don't want to speculate on his ceiling because we all know how much potential he has.

i really dont see this enormous superstar potential. what exactly is it based off of?

-he doesnt have unique size
-he doesnt have an elite/unique skill
- he doesnt have a unique combination of size/skill

he is basically just an elite athelete, and there are alot of elite athletes these days

He know how it turned out with Westbrook and Wiggins has more skill than the rookie RW0.

[rockmanslim]

People are placing too much stock into the player that he is and completely forgetting the real reason he's a top 2 pick is because of his potential.

And this is where people get in trouble with Wiggins. People look at his run and jump athleticism, his body, and just see "potential." It's not as easy as that. Probabilities and progression models are huge here. When you talk about him improving his "handles" and his "finishing ability." You can't simply go from one extreme to another, it's the likelihood of how much that specific skill improves.

It's why the Paul George comparisons are so ridiculously off base. He's a very VERY rare example of player progression, and I was particularly high on George coming out for a number of reasons that just aren't there with Wiggins.

What reasons were those? I didn't watch P. George in college.

[Chitownbulls]

Rudy Gay/Iggy/ Vince Carter

[Prokorov]

I think his FLOOR is a first team all defensive player who scores 12-15 PPG. I don't want to speculate on his ceiling because we all know how much potential he has.

i really dont see this enormous superstar potential. what exactly is it based off of?

-he doesnt have unique size
-he doesnt have an elite/unique skill
- he doesnt have a unique combination of size/skill

he is basically just an elite athelete, and there are alot of elite athletes these days

He know how it turned out with Westbrook and Wiggins has more skill than the rookie RW0.

in what capacity is he more skilled then westbrook coming out of college? westbrook might have had no jumper, but he could dribble with his left hand and drive to the rimboth left nad right, his body control in traffic and at the rim was much better.

i dont think its close.

[Prokorov]

I'm more then willing to accept them im wrong/off on my view that wiggins doesnt haven superstar potential. but so far the only reasons ive seen here as to why people think he has such great potential/upside are:

"he can improve"

or

"X player is a star and when he came out he wasnt very good"

Those 2 reasons can be applied to any player in the draft. what exactly is it that wiggins does well that projects him to have such upside? as mentioned, it clearly isnt unique size, skill or a unique combination of size and skill (which is usually the case)

[RoyceDa59]

I think he will have a very similar career to Vince Carter.

[Litany]

I think it ranges from Rudy Gay to a Paul George that is always consistent.


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[fluffernutter]

Wiggins is not a sure-fire draft winner like Shaq/Lebron/Duncan. Nowhere near. He's in a lower tier, and in that tier... what matters the most is not physical attributes but all the mental ones. Drive, ability to improve, skill, maturity.. is he angry like Westbrook, which seems to drive him? No. Is he intense like Lillard? Nobody makes this claim. Is he mature/calm/silent/hardworking like Kawai? Not so much. Is he a workout freak like Rodman was, with crazy stamina? Certainly not. So what is he? "Just" another super talented kid with great physical tools. Those guys don't usually turn into studs. Over the past 20 years you can probably point to 30 other "talents" with comparable physical skills who never did much.

I'm not hopeful. I think Wiggins doesn't have the drive/maturity/desire to be great. That matters more than how fast he runs and how high he jumps.

I am not sure, of course. But that's my impression.

[Tave]

I'm more then willing to accept them im wrong/off on my view that wiggins doesnt haven superstar potential. but so far the only reasons ive seen here as to why people think he has such great potential/upside are:

"he can improve"

or

"X player is a star and when he came out he wasnt very good"

Those 2 reasons can be applied to any player in the draft. what exactly is it that wiggins does well that projects him to have such upside? as mentioned, it clearly isnt unique size, skill or a unique combination of size and skill (which is usually the case)

- Insane physical tools
- All-time leading freshman scorer in Jayhawk history
- Rapid growth in skills - transitioned from a putback Center to a SF to a SG within 2 years
- Elite defense
- High IQ player, great poise and decisionmaking on both ends of the floor
- A team player, willingly moves the ball around the floor
- Great reaction time, he either sees an opportunity and exploits it or gives up the ball, efficient player
- Ups his game against elite competition, takes marque matchups personally, wants to beat the best of the best

Is he mature/calm/silent/hardworking like Kawai? Not so much. Is he a workout freak like Rodman was, with crazy stamina? Certainly not.

Huh? Both of those describe him pretty accurately in fact. Not a vocal leader but a leader nonetheless. At times overly passive like Kawhi.

He led the Jayhawks in minutes and scoring, while often taking the toughest defensive assignments on the wing. Never seems to tire, by all reports lives and breathes basketball and has worked himself into an amazing physical specimen like Rodman.

[Prokorov]

- Insane physical tools

Such as? Again, he desnt have unique size. He is a great leaper, but there are great leapers every year. what makes him better then any other guy with 35-40" verticle?

- All-time leading freshman scorer in Jayhawk history

I dont see how this is really relevant. its not like he is the big-10 all time leading scorer, or all time freshman scorer. its kind of a quirky stat. not to mention college stats are a poor way to project pro performance. Hell the player of the year in Wiggins conference (melvin ejim) isnt even projected to be drafted

- Rapid growth in skills - transitioned from a putback Center to a SF to a SG within 2 years

switching positions? i dont see that shows growth. he is being put where he is more suited. its not like he could play cente rin college

- Elite defense

in college with college rules.

- High IQ player, great poise and decisionmaking on both ends of the floor

i witnessed the opposite on the offensive end

- A team player, willingly moves the ball around the floor

there are 100s of "team players" in college. most of them arent even good enough to enter the draft. its great he is unselfish, but being unselfish isnt a reason why someone has "huge upside"

- Great reaction time, he either sees an opportunity and exploits it or gives up the ball, efficient player

he wasnt super efficient in college

- Ups his game against elite competition, takes marque matchups personally, wants to beat the best of the best

again, this can also be said about several players who wont even be drafted


The things you describe are all great attributes to have. but none of them are reasons to expect someone to have huge upside. huge upside is usually reserved for:

Guys with unqiue size
Guys with unique size AND coordination/athleticism
Guys with elite shooting
Guys with unique size AND elite shooting
Guys with elite ballhandling and elite shooting
Guys with elite speed,ballhandling, shooting, and quickness

you look at prior superstars in the making... dwight had elite size/athleticism combo. Lebron had unique size and elite ballhandling and athleticism for his size. Durant had elite shooting/quickness for a player with his size.

wiggins is just a guy with elite athleticism who gets by on that and a high motor. he doesnt have any elite skill and he doesnt have unique size

[Tave]

6'8" with a 7' wingspan is a giant at the shooting guard position. Wiggins athleticism doesn't end at his insane vertical, he has a freakish 2nd and 3rd jump, covers ground like a maniac, and has great body control in the air. Melvin Ejim was 4 years older than Wiggins. When I talk about efficiency, I'm talking about his movement and the way he manages a possession, not his raw shooting statistics, although those were pretty efficient too considering his age and the load he shouldered on both ends of the floor.

HTH


Look dude, you don't have to like the guy, or consider him to be the #1 prospect, a sure fire All-Star, etc... I myself have doubts about whether he will be elite at the next level. But if you can't see why people might value him highly then I don't know what to tell you. Dismissing every positive the kid has going for him out of spite destroys any credible argument you might be making.

[maoriboy]

People are placing too much stock into the player that he is and completely forgetting the real reason he's a top 2 pick is because of his potential.

He's a lockdown defender, that can run the floor, can shoot, dribble and finish at a decent rate AT AGE 19.

Now give this player a few years to develop, it seems unfair to describe his game and completely ignore the fact that he's going to get better, ive seen LeBron turn into shooter and post master after countless threads saying it wasn't his game.

Let me at least say, are you really worried that Wiggins after three 82 game seasons, with coaching, dieting and training couldn't be better then Luol Deng?

Potential is important but also nature. Wiggins doesn't seem to have that alpha personality and to me a person can be raw as hell, but mentally they have to be an alpha personality in order to achieve their potential because as you say, he can do all those things right now so what real potential are we talking about here? Whats between the ears? Ok thats the case for everyone, even bums become smarter bums as time passes. But whats his personality. I just think its concerning that he was supposed to be the best player in college and even before going to Kansas there were questions about his drive and then when I watched him, don't get me wrong he didn't suck, but I just felt he needed to show me some primary option mentality a bit. I feel Parker has that. I felt like Randle had that and he's five picks down without the things you mentioned Wiggins having. So to me if you got the skills or potential, I wanna see you use it.

Personally I don't place much stock in the alpha, killer mentality, what would Jordan do talking points. Just because Wiggins hasn't taken over games on a consistent basis doesn't mean he can't.

What really should be taken into account is Wiggins work ethic and how coachable he is. He has proven to his previous coaches that he wants to improve. His coaches love how easy it is to communicate with him and his two way abilities, although granted he does float in and out on the offensive side.

Well anyway, if I'm drafting this kid I'm less worried that he can win rookie of the year and more hopeful of what he can do in four, five years.

[SBM]

As good as Paul George

[Kabookalu]

he is basically just an elite athelete, and there are alot of elite athletes these days

Not of Wiggins' caliber. Once he gets drafted he'll automatically become one of the most athletic specimens in the league. He possesses an elite first step, elite lateral quickness, elite body coordination, quick jump, and a quick second jump.

People only base his athleticism on his leaping ability, which is the single most overrated athletic trait in a basketball player, and he's elite there too.

He's the protocol Olympian athlete for a basketball player.