Zach Lowe article on Suns and Sixers rebuild going in different directions

[MrSparkle]

Tanking works if you luck into Durant, Griffin or Lebron. And then you still need smart FA moves and coaching hires. And even then, only 1 of those guys won championship.

Sixers might've gotten their guy in Okafor, and they have assets to trade for a star. But this doesn't guarantee a championship... At all.

PHX still has room to operate, so they're not looked into some crappy situation. Plus all their players are tradeable contracts.

I don't know, as a fan, I'd be aggravated if my team had one +.500 season in 10 years (barely... Lockout season). About 7/10 bad losing seasons / no playoffs. That is pathetic. I was extremely pissed with the Bulls between 99-04. The 05-09 team got frustrating too (as a constant 1st rd. bounce squad)... But I still appreciated having a team that cared.

I guess the current plan gives more hope... But unfortunately seems like Embiid is done as a franchise prospect. Noel + Okafor could be very good. But my patience would be running thin.

[aIvin adams]

Lakers suck and the Knicks suck

ITT fences can be mended.

[Ben-N1ce]

I think in the 2020's wen Philly has a playoff team everyone will be eating crow and acknowledging Hinkie's greatness.

[JMac1]

Talk about sounding butthurt. I see alot of anger from you suns fans. Ask any GM in the league what team and circumstances he would want, and I guarantee it is not the suns middle of the pack talent. No need to argue with you, because you want to justify your team playing in the west and being competetive til game 75. I want a championship and I'll take our rebuild and tanking over your enjoyment of a mediocre team all day! Just because you continue to post a ton of your opinions with anger doesn't change where your team is.

Dude, everything about your organization is a laughing stock and the league is thinking about doing something to end that garbage. Wake up.

Ask any GM? are you serious? We don't have to ask, look at how they go about doing their work; only one GM in the league chooses to play a DLeague roster in the NBA and that is yours. Hoping to get the next Duncan.....well if he comes around every 20 years and you still might not get him in the lottery....

I guess you have to make some sense out of your situation to feel good about yourself. So go ahead and knock the Suns

[JMac1]

Again trying to rationalize with the irrational.... They competed up until game 75 last year and game 82 the year before that, so that meant I ENJOYED watching my team play the entire season my man. So what they lost at the end of the day EVERYONE'S team did except SAS and GS for those years. That means everyone fan felt like Suns fan at the end of the day, but these sucking teams have NO chance in October, year after year.

No going to the bar and rooting for your team to win with your friends ever.....for the entire year!! When was the last time you celebrated at the end of the season my man?! 20 years ago.

Please do me a favor and don't try to rationalize that into a bad thing, being relevant and playing for something. You have been totally brainwashed and do not understand how to watch sports.....It is entertainment!! If you are not being entertained, why watch?

Posts like this are why the GB gets a horrible reputation.

Need to try and make a point without anything else -- try all caps that will make the point stronger!
Guy disagrees with you -- throw out that they don't understand how to watch sports cause otherwise they would agree with you!
But most of all, start with an inherently contradictory thesis -- So what that my team lost at the end, it was enjoyable while your team was not enjoyable because they lost!

AT THE BEGINNING Yes that is called context. Don't take it off to try to say I contradicted myself.....that is no bueno sir.

We can go there if you like.

I made a salient point, and you attach that to me being one of the reasons this board is not like ...wow!

Dude you (Sixers' fans) lost before it started, what don't you understand? I am not disappointed until April versus Nov 1st; that is a big difference. So your Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and April was buried with watching Dleaguers and I was enjoying myself until it all ended in April, where is the contraction to my conclusion of: Everyone is going to lose except one team, but I would like to enjoy watching my team play meaningful games for as long as possible....?

But I am sure you will find a way to say I am wrong.

Come on man be honest."inherently contradictory thesis?" It isn't my fault that you did not understand (willfully or unwillingly) what I said so clearly; that didn't make my statement contrary. But I give you an E for effort.

[mksp]

In terms of trade value of assets, Okafor and Noel are easily the top two trade assets on either team. Equating Alex Len with Nerlens Noel is a reach, and any objective fan in the country would easily prefer Noel. I don't think anyone would trade Noel for Bledsoe either (you just don't trade talented 7'0 guys for talented 6'1 guys, and Noel is much younger).

Beyond that you get into murky waters regarding draft picks, injured talent, overseas rights, and age.

We know that the LAL 2016 pick is roughly worth Brandon Knight, though now Brandon Knight is 23 years old and signed for $70 M over 5 years. I'd rather have the pick obviously, but one could argue the other way.

NIk Stauskas was picked ahead of TJ Warren last year. So was Dario Saric. But your ready to rank Warren ahead of those guys after one seasons?

Where does a guy like Robert Covington, with 3 years on his contract at $1 MM per rank?

In a lot of ways, the two respective rebuilds can be illustrated by their trade assets.

Okafor + Noel

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Suns Assets + Other Philly Assets

Philly's stated goal is to get "needle-movers" --> Like Okafor and Noel. There have been some false starts (Embiid), but that's why you don't rely on a single player / pick / asset / whatever.

Clearly I'm biased, but Lowe made the comparison for a reason.

I'm glad you guys are happy that you won games last year and this year, but it's clearly contributed to having a less talented team on the court than you could have had.

[HartfordWhalers]

Again trying to rationalize with the irrational.... They competed up until game 75 last year and game 82 the year before that, so that meant I ENJOYED watching my team play the entire season my man. So what they lost at the end of the day EVERYONE'S team did except SAS and GS for those years. That means everyone fan felt like Suns fan at the end of the day, but these sucking teams have NO chance in October, year after year.

No going to the bar and rooting for your team to win with your friends ever.....for the entire year!! When was the last time you celebrated at the end of the season my man?! 20 years ago.

Please do me a favor and don't try to rationalize that into a bad thing, being relevant and playing for something. You have been totally brainwashed and do not understand how to watch sports.....It is entertainment!! If you are not being entertained, why watch?

Posts like this are why the GB gets a horrible reputation.

Need to try and make a point without anything else -- try all caps that will make the point stronger!
Guy disagrees with you -- throw out that they don't understand how to watch sports cause otherwise they would agree with you!
But most of all, start with an inherently contradictory thesis -- So what that my team lost at the end, it was enjoyable while your team was not enjoyable because they lost!

AT THE BEGINNING Yes that is called context. Don't take it off to try to say I contradicted myself.....that is no bueno sir.

We can go there if you like.

I made a salient point, and you attach that to me being one of the reasons this board is not like ...wow!

Dude you (Sixers' fans) lost before it started, what don't you understand? I am not disappointed until April versus Nov 1st; that is a big difference. So your Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and April was buried with watching Dleaguers and I was enjoying myself until it all ended in April, where is the contraction to my conclusion of: Everyone is going to lose except one team, but I would like to enjoy watching my team play meaningful games for as long as possible....?

But I am sure you will find a way to say I am wrong.

Come on man be honest."inherently contradictory thesis?" It isn't my fault that you did not understand (willfully or unwillingly) what I said so clearly; that didn't make my statement contrary. But I give you an E for effort.

I pointed out all the ridiculous things in your statement.
In response, you doubled down on them. Well done.

[JMac1]

Tanking works if you luck into Durant, Griffin or Lebron. And then you still need smart FA moves and coaching hires. And even then, only 1 of those guys won championship....................I don't know, as a fan, I'd be aggravated if my team had one +.500 season in 10 years (barely... Lockout season). About 7/10 bad losing seasons / no playoffs. That is pathetic. I was extremely pissed with the Bulls between 99-04. The 05-09 team got frustrating too (as a constant 1st rd. bounce squad)... But I still appreciated having a team that cared.

Yup!

[JMac1]

Posts like this are why the GB gets a horrible reputation.

Need to try and make a point without anything else -- try all caps that will make the point stronger!
Guy disagrees with you -- throw out that they don't understand how to watch sports cause otherwise they would agree with you!
But most of all, start with an inherently contradictory thesis -- So what that my team lost at the end, it was enjoyable while your team was not enjoyable because they lost!

AT THE BEGINNING Yes that is called context. Don't take it off to try to say I contradicted myself.....that is no bueno sir.

We can go there if you like.

I made a salient point, and you attach that to me being one of the reasons this board is not like ...wow!

Dude you (Sixers' fans) lost before it started, what don't you understand? I am not disappointed until April versus Nov 1st; that is a big difference. So your Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and April was buried with watching Dleaguers and I was enjoying myself until it all ended in April, where is the contraction to my conclusion of: Everyone is going to lose except one team, but I would like to enjoy watching my team play meaningful games for as long as possible....?

But I am sure you will find a way to say I am wrong.

Come on man be honest."inherently contradictory thesis?" It isn't my fault that you did not understand (willfully or unwillingly) what I said so clearly; that didn't make my statement contrary. But I give you an E for effort.

I pointed out all the ridiculous things in your statement.
In response, you doubled down on them. Well done.

It's called clarifying not doubling down, we are not in Vegas.

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, for those who don't, no explanation is possible."



Edit: Again what was ridiculous? I need to Again. Tell me how going into a season as a loser is better than going into the season as a competitor

[HartfordWhalers]

AT THE BEGINNING Yes that is called context. Don't take it off to try to say I contradicted myself.....that is no bueno sir.

We can go there if you like.

I made a salient point, and you attach that to me being one of the reasons this board is not like ...wow!

Dude you (Sixers' fans) lost before it started, what don't you understand? I am not disappointed until April versus Nov 1st; that is a big difference. So your Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and April was buried with watching Dleaguers and I was enjoying myself until it all ended in April, where is the contraction to my conclusion of: Everyone is going to lose except one team, but I would like to enjoy watching my team play meaningful games for as long as possible....?

But I am sure you will find a way to say I am wrong.

Come on man be honest."inherently contradictory thesis?" It isn't my fault that you did not understand (willfully or unwillingly) what I said so clearly; that didn't make my statement contrary. But I give you an E for effort.

I pointed out all the ridiculous things in your statement.
In response, you doubled down on them. Well done.

It's called clarifying not doubling down, we are not in Vegas.

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, for those who don't, no explanation is possible."



Edit: Again what was ridiculous? I need to Again. Tell me how going into a season as a loser is better than going into the season as a competitor

Reading comprehension is not your strongest suit. Well, I hope it isn't.

So lets review:
1) Need to try and make a point without anything else -- try all caps that will make the point stronger!

AT THE BEGINNING

Not just did you go all caps, you added bold and large font. Cause when not saying anything of content, might as well say it louder. Pretty sure that is a double down.

2) Guy disagrees with you -- throw out that they don't understand how to watch sports cause otherwise they would agree with you!

It isn't my fault that you did not understand

"For those who understand no explanation is needed, for those who don't, no explanation is possible."

Yep. Doubling down.

And yes I do find that your argument is entirely contradictory. You keep going on how it doesn't matter that Phoenix didn't make the playoffs because they played meaningful games... and they played meaningful games because the games might have led to the playoffs that wouldn't even have mattered?

It is hard to make much sense out of it between the poor form, distasteful comments to others, and general just lack of cohesive thought. Still, if I try to make sense out of it, I have to assume that you didn't enjoy the last 7 games at all last year of Phoenix's season as they didn't have the chance for the playoffs anymore.

Interestingly, post All star game Philly was outscored by 5.8 ppg and Phx a similar 4.9ppg.

[Snotbubbles]

The draft isn't a sure thing. to rely on that is nuts

the clippers and warriors did that for YEARS

For years......? Forever!!

FYI, there is no sure way to build a championship team. The only thing we know is that if you have a star player, your chances of winning a championship increase exponentially. The Sixers are trying to increase their chances of landing that guy THROUGH ALL AVAILABLE AVENUES. They have tons of picks, tons of assets and tons of cap space.

[JDizzel3000]

Making the playoffs as a lower seed in the East is a joke and nothing to be proud about and the Suns have had more wins than the sixers in recent years despite playing in the stacked Western conference.
The Sixers have gone without a playoff run for 4 seasons and the Suns 5, your point about the Sixers making the playoffs more recently is grasping.

Grasping? Lol ...did they make the playoffs or not? It's a very simple thing to comprehend ...you've got Suns fans in hear bragging about winning regular season games that have netted them nothing not even a playoff birth ..yet I'm the one grasping?? Lol ....I find that interesting

Anyhow ...now that it has been established that the sixers have had more success making it to the postseason over the past 5 years than the Suns ...can someone please explain to me just exactly how they're doing this rebuild thing "better" than the so called "tank king" sixers ...?? I mean ...yikes

No one is celebrating anything except GS fans I hope. Suns fans are here wondering how can you look down on someone when you are underneath them?

Underneath them? Lmao ......Suns fans having this kind of hubris is adorable to me ....you have done nothing and accomplished less than that team and YOUR trying to rationalize to me why in your mind that's ok ..yet I'm the irrational one?? Lol ...my question is how many years of missing the playoffs in a row do Suns fans find to be acceptable?? I guess it's just a different mentality for teams that have won the whole enchilada and teams that never have ...I suppose when you don't know that feeling of achievement subconsciously your willing to accept anything as a victory ....claiming that 5 straight years of non playoff basketball has been entertaining to you is bizarre to me ....but hey ....that's your prerogative

And when you are called out on it, you get upset.

This sounds like projection ...we're on a sports forum talking about a game we all love ....relax

If you are not a SAS, GS, Cavs, OKC, or Rockets' fan, you have your own business to take care of.....Maybe the Clippers,

We'll be alright ...i can walk and chew gum at the same time

[bondom34]

Grasping? Lol ...did they make the playoffs or not? It's a very simple thing to comprehend ...you've got Suns fans in hear bragging about winning regular season games that have netted them nothing not even a playoff birth ..yet I'm the one grasping?? Lol ....I find that interesting

Anyhow ...now that it has been established that the sixers have had more success making it to the postseason over the past 5 years than the Suns ...can someone please explain to me just exactly how they're doing this rebuild thing "better" than the so called "tank king" sixers ...?? I mean ...yikes

No one is celebrating anything except GS fans I hope. Suns fans are here wondering how can you look down on someone when you are underneath them?

Underneath them? Lmao ......Suns fans having this kind of hubris is adorable to me ....you have done nothing and accomplished less than that team and YOUR trying to rationalize to me why in your mind that's ok ..yet I'm the irrational one?? Lol ...my question is how many years of missing the playoffs in a row do Suns fans find to be acceptable?? I guess it's just a different mentality for teams that have won the whole enchilada and teams that never have ...I suppose when you don't know that feeling of achievement subconsciously your willing to accept anything as a victory ....claiming that 5 straight years of non playoff basketball has been entertaining to you is bizarre to me ....but hey ....that's your prerogative

And when you are called out on it, you get upset.

This sounds like projection ...we're on a sports forum talking about a game we all love ....relax

If you are not a SAS, GS, Cavs, OKC, or Rockets' fan, you have your own business to take care of.....Maybe the Clippers,

We'll be alright ...i can walk and chew gum at the same time

Honestly, I don't think many teams are in a better spot than the Suns. And I'd rather be them than a middling east team as well.

[RealRapsFan]

The draft isn't a sure thing. to rely on that is nuts

the clippers and warriors did that for YEARS

For years......? Forever!!

FYI, there is no sure way to build a championship team. The only thing we know is that if you have a star player, your chances of winning a championship increase exponentially. The Sixers are trying to increase their chances of landing that guy THROUGH ALL AVAILABLE AVENUES. They have tons of picks, tons of assets and tons of cap space.

If some around here could focus on more than one thing at a time, you would blow their minds.

[joyeuxnoel]

Alex Len is nowhere near the player NN is on defense

That's your Opinion and you are entitled to it. What does that mean to me? Nothing.

Nerlens Noel: top 10 in blocks and steals, 5% block percentage, 2.9% steal percentage, DWS of 4.2, DBPM of 4.5

Alex Len: 5.3 block percentage, 1.1% steal percentage, DWS of 2.1, DBPM of 2.3

[JDizzel3000]

The Suns haven't made the playoffs in 5 years my man ..possibly going on 6.... The 6ers have been to the post season more recent than your team ....yet ...you are celebrating being able to get the 13th pick in the draft better than another team?


That's quite strange ...

True, yet it was the east conference getting one of the last two seeds by winning 41 or 35 games. The last time Philly had a record as good as the Suns did last year was in 2002-03. Not terribly impressive.

#1 that franchise has had a MUCH richer and more successful history than the Suns if you really want to get into a back and forth about records and accomplishments ....I really don't think you want tongi down that path of brining up extended history ...


#2 sticking to what we're actually talking about here ...I'd like to know if essentially what you are trying to infer is that winning regular season games >>>> getting to watch your team go to the playoffs


If so ....I'd say that it would be very telling in regards to the general psyche of a Suns fan

[joyeuxnoel]

In terms of trade value of assets, Okafor and Noel are easily the top two trade assets on either team. Equating Alex Len with Nerlens Noel is a reach, and any objective fan in the country would easily prefer Noel. I don't think anyone would trade Noel for Bledsoe either (you just don't trade talented 7'0 guys for talented 6'1 guys, and Noel is much younger).

Beyond that you get into murky waters regarding draft picks, injured talent, overseas rights, and age.

We know that the LAL 2016 pick is roughly worth Brandon Knight, though now Brandon Knight is 23 years old and signed for $70 M over 5 years. I'd rather have the pick obviously, but one could argue the other way.

NIk Stauskas was picked ahead of TJ Warren last year. So was Dario Saric. But your ready to rank Warren ahead of those guys after .

as zach lowe pointed out, the suns traded that pick banking on the lakers to improve significantly this season, and they didn't. now that pick is worth a lot more than brandon knight, whose an almost all-star pg, but not worth a 4-7 pick

[Latrell]

Just curious if 76ers fans think they'll be instant contenders after their 'plan' is finished?

Or will they have some .500 ish seasons in there? So will they tank when they get to .500 again?

Since that would be "tread milling" right?

[bondom34]

The Suns haven't made the playoffs in 5 years my man ..possibly going on 6.... The 6ers have been to the post season more recent than your team ....yet ...you are celebrating being able to get the 13th pick in the draft better than another team?


That's quite strange ...

True, yet it was the east conference getting one of the last two seeds by winning 41 or 35 games. The last time Philly had a record as good as the Suns did last year was in 2002-03. Not terribly impressive.

#1 that franchise has had a MUCH richer and more successful history than the Suns if you really want to get into a back and forth about records and accomplishments ....I really don't think you want tongi down that path of brining up extended history ...


#2 sticking to what we're actually talking about here ...I'd like to know if essentially what you are trying to infer is that winning regular season games >>>> getting to watch your team go to the playoffs


If so ....I'd say that it would be very telling in regards to the general psyche of a Suns fan

Why would the 76ers history matter? I don't really care they were good in the 80s, they've been to the conference finals 3 times since 2000, Phoenix has the same. They made the finals once, Phoenix didn't. So that's the "success" they've had over the Suns.

[JDizzel3000]

No one is celebrating anything except GS fans I hope. Suns fans are here wondering how can you look down on someone when you are underneath them?

Underneath them? Lmao ......Suns fans having this kind of hubris is adorable to me ....you have done nothing and accomplished less than that team and YOUR trying to rationalize to me why in your mind that's ok ..yet I'm the irrational one?? Lol ...my question is how many years of missing the playoffs in a row do Suns fans find to be acceptable?? I guess it's just a different mentality for teams that have won the whole enchilada and teams that never have ...I suppose when you don't know that feeling of achievement subconsciously your willing to accept anything as a victory ....claiming that 5 straight years of non playoff basketball has been entertaining to you is bizarre to me ....but hey ....that's your prerogative

And when you are called out on it, you get upset.

This sounds like projection ...we're on a sports forum talking about a game we all love ....relax

If you are not a SAS, GS, Cavs, OKC, or Rockets' fan, you have your own business to take care of.....Maybe the Clippers,

We'll be alright ...i can walk and chew gum at the same time

Honestly, I don't think many teams are in a better spot than the Suns. And I'd rather be them than a middling east team as well.

Interesting...

I'd take


Magic
Sixers
Bucks
T'wolves
Jazz
Pistons


All over the Suns ...in regards to young teams with a chance to rebuild into contenders ...there's very few rebuilding teams that I see the Suns having the advantage on actually ...