2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

JulesWinnfield · Post #181 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 3:47 pm

He's the MVP so far for sure and he's playing on an incredible level. I would quibble with saying he has no help though. It's true he has to carry an absurd role offensively, but that team is playing incredible defense right now and one man (especially a pg) can't make that happen himself. The offensive load is absurd though

jptremblay · Post #182 » by **jptremblay** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:01 pm

Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

Rapcity_11 · Post #183 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:07 pm

RCM88x wrote:I don't think anyone else is on the same planet at this point.

Harden obviously is.

RCM88x · Post #184 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:09 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:I don't think anyone else is on the same planet at this point.

Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

Rapcity_11 · Post #185 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:10 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:I don't think anyone else is on the same planet at this point.

Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Pelly24 · Post #186 » by **Pelly24** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:12 pm

jptremblay wrote:Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

From ESPN:

"During the 39 full games he played with an injured Durant off the court in 2014-15, Westbrook averaged 31.4 points, 9.2 assists and 7.9 rebounds per game. Oklahoma City went 22-17 in those games, a 46-win pace over a full season similar to RPM's projection for this year's Thunder."

Honestly, I don't think his teammates were worse than now. Ibaka would do better when he was healthy.

Post #187 » by **Duke4life831** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:14 pm

montestewart wrote:
Gil wrote:Harden's been the best player in the League offensively & it isn't close. He currently has a 131 Offensive Rating [/code]which is mind boggling.

After 5 games, Harden and Leonard both have a 132 Offensive Rating. I can see good arguments for Westbrook, Harden, or Leonard

Ya right now Id say Westbrook with Kawhi right behind him and Harden right behind Kawhi. With that said I dont think OKC will end up a top 4 seed in the west. I think SA will and because of that and Kawhi's massive defensive edge over the two of those guys, I would give him the edge out of those 3 guys.

Bergmaniac · Post #188 » by **Bergmaniac** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:16 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Weren't you arguing a few days ago that Westbrook was really detrimental to OKC's defence with his poor play on that end against the Spurs in the playoffs?

OldeBoy · Post #189 » by **OldeBoy** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:18 pm

Pelly24 wrote:
jptremblay wrote:Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

From ESPN:

"During the 39 full games he played with an injured Durant off the court in 2014-15, Westbrook averaged 31.4 points, 9.2 assists and 7.9 rebounds per game. Oklahoma City went 22-17 in those games, a 46-win pace over a full season similar to RPM's projection for this year's Thunder."

Honestly, I don't think his teammates were worse than now. Ibaka would do better when he was healthy.

But Ibaka wasn't healthy for much of that stretch in 2015. Thats the point.

Rapcity_11 · Post #190 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:18 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Weren't you arguing a few days ago that Westbrook was really detrimental to OKC's defence with his poor play on that end against the Spurs in the playoffs?

Yes... Your point?

Bergmaniac · Post #191 » by **Bergmaniac** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:19 pm

My point is that negative impact is still impact.

RCM88x · Post #192 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:20 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Granted it's only been 4 games but he's currently 3rd in the league in Defensive Win Shares.

Post #193 » by **Capn'O** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:22 pm

Poor Anthony Davis...

Rapcity_11 · Post #194 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:24 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Granted it's only been 4 games but he's currently 3rd in the league in Defensive Win Shares.

Defensive winshares are dubious at best with a proper sample...4 games? Not even worth looking at.

JulesWinnfield · Post #195 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:28 pm

jptremblay wrote:Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

The only reason they didn't make the playoffs 2 years ago was because Westbrook also missed time himself with a broken hand. People always forget this when discussing that season. Also the fact that the west was much stronger (deeper) in 2015 and 45 wins left you out of the playoffs. There won't be a team in the west winning 45 and missing the playoffs this year

CptCrunch · Post #196 » by **CptCrunch** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:28 pm

VORP is Westbrook, Harden then Kawhi.

PER is Kawhi, Harden, DeRozan and Westbrook.

They are top 3 for sure. No one really thinks DeRozan could sustain 36 ppg at 55% shooting.

Curry and Deuxrant are on a stacked team. LeBron is casually almost averaging a 20/10/10, and is letting Irving carry the scoring load.

Post #197 » by **bondom34** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:31 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Granted it's only been 4 games but he's currently 3rd in the league in Defensive Win Shares.

Defensive winshares are dubious at best with a proper sample...4 games? Not even worth looking at.

They are a crap stat, but he's been solid defensively. That said he's been much more remarkable offensively.

Post #198 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 5:00 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:
jptremblay wrote:Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

The only reason they didn't make the playoffs 2 years ago was because Westbrook also missed time himself with a broken hand. People always forget this when discussing that season. Also the fact that the west was much stronger (deeper) in 2015 and 45 wins left you out of the playoffs. There won't be a team in the west winning 45 and missing the playoffs this year

Not just him. Just about everyone that year missed time. It was a miserable year of basketball.

I watched Nick Collison play small forward and Perry Jones run the point because we had only 8 guys that could dress. Reggie was alternately sulking and ball-hogging to the point where Perk and Serge were taking the ball from him to bring it up the court. It was a terrible year.

HotRocks34 · Post #199 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 5:02 pm

BScoreez · Post #200 » by **BScoreez** » Thu Nov 3, 2016 5:19 pm

Westbrook has been great so far on high volume, but it is only 4 games and 3 of those games were against the worst teams from last season who were also the bottom 3 offensively. Knowing that I would bet that the Thunder have started out with one of the best defenses in the NBA because of opponents played.