How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[eathb_au]

He'll almost likely become the best Nuggets player in their history which is ashame for Carmelo, who probably won't get his number retired in Denver since Jokic wears #15 now.

[vxmike]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

[ReKon]

I have read the majority of the posts in this thread just to get a feel of what people are saying.

Now don't get me wrong i love the kid and i believe that he is going to be great in the league. Many all-star appearances and all-nba teams. But to call him a perrrenial MVP candidate? The best player under 25? No i disagree. To me at least if you are not a two way player you can't call yourself anything of the above. To be a perrenial MVP candidate playing one side of the ball you have to have a James Harden-like contribution offensively.

Best player under 25? now i might be biased in this but there is noone in the league that i would take to start my franchise right now before Giannis. The guy is 2 months older than Jokic by the way and he already made an all star appearance made the all nba second team and has been in the playoffs twice (but he has only led his team to the playoffs last year to be fair).

Once again i love the kid but you also have to fit the team you are in as a center. If he played in Washington for example his passing ability which is the strongest part of his game wouldn't shine so much.But perrenial DPOY candidates like Gobert Whiteside or Embiid can fit any team's playstyle. Therefore my expectations for Jokic giventhat he can improve his defence a bit is that he is going to become a slightly better Marc Gasol. That's what i expect and if he can do that i will be very happy with his progression because Marc Gasol is by no means a scrub.

[eathb_au]

This is my favorite Jokic video

Watch on YouTube

[Baseline Runner]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

Uhh, he is 7'3". Upside is never low for a guy that is 7'3". The guys that need to jump high are the guys that are 6'6" so they can shoot over bigger players. He is already tall, he doesn't need to jump to compensate for a lack of height.

Also he seems to be very coordinated and agile for a big guy, usually that is the biggest problem for big guys like him. Look at that video where he scored 40 points and he did two spin moves at the top of the key. Very few big men can do that. Also he is already very strong and bulky for a guy 21 years old, again that is another problem with big stiffs, they are understrengthed. He has a lot of room and time to get even stronger and no one will be able to stop him from playing bully ball around the basket. And if you double or triple team him then he will just make an amazing pass to an open guy.

[antonac]

His potential is absurd, but he's a system guy. I mean that in a positive sense though, if his coach and teammates realise what they've got and build a working team around the fact they have a generational play-maker center then the sky is the limit. the problem is no one has ever built that team before, but I can't imagine a stretch big better than him, he can shoot and make eye-of-the-needle passes inside.

the best thing about that video isn't just the fact that he makes all these incredible sling shot passes, that he doesn't seem to need to look where he's putting the ball, it's that he gets the ball and his teammates just start charging towards the basket knowing full well that if there's space for an open layup he's going to find a way to get them the ball.

[Dante80]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

Uhh, he is 7'3". Upside is never low for a guy that is 7'3". The guys that need to jump high are the guys that are 6'6" so they can shoot over bigger players. He is already tall, he doesn't need to jump to compensate for a lack of height.

Also he seems to be very coordinated and agile for a big guy, usually that is the biggest problem for big guys like him. Look at that video where he scored 40 points and he did two spin moves at the top of the key. Very few big men can do that. Also he is already very strong and bulky for a guy 21 years old, again that is another problem with big stiffs, they are understrengthed. He has a lot of room and time to get even stronger and no one will be able to stop him from playing bully ball around the basket. And if you double or triple team him then he will just make an amazing pass to an open guy.

I think you mixed up your players man. Jokic is nowhere near 7'3''..I think his listing (without shoes) is 6'10''.

[lars_rosenberg]

Once again i love the kid but you also have to fit the team you are in as a center. If he played in Washington for example his passing ability which is the strongest part of his game wouldn't shine so much.But perrenial DPOY candidates like Gobert Whiteside or Embiid can fit any team's playstyle. Therefore my expectations for Jokic giventhat he can improve his defence a bit is that he is going to become a slightly better Marc Gasol. That's what i expect and if he can do that i will be very happy with his progression because Marc Gasol is by no means a scrub.

You could say the same for all ball-dominant players, including LeBron and Giannis. Jokic is a point center, just like GIannis is a point forward. Giannis wasn't so good when he played off the ball (before the 2016 All Star Break) and he would still be that player if he played with John Wall.
Rim protectors are role players, not superstars. Jokic is not going to be a role player and his defense isn't so bad actually, he's ok.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

Depending on what is "below average for you", guys like Nash and Curry definitely are not freaks, and even a guy like Dirk could be included in this conversation, in terms of not being a freak.

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[Ryoga Hibiki]

You could say the same for all ball-dominant players, including LeBron and Giannis. Jokic is a point center, just like GIannis is a point forward. Giannis wasn't so good when he played off the ball (before the 2016 All Star Break) and he would still be that player if he played with John Wall.
Rim protectors are role players, not superstars. Jokic is not going to be a role player and his defense isn't so bad actually, he's ok.

People should stop this role players/superstar distinction as if it had any meaning. Everybody has a role in a team, and a defensive anchor can have the most important one.

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[psimanic1]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

And how many of those MVPs were actually C's?

[Bill Pidto]

This is my favorite Jokic video

Watch on YouTube

I have to admit, I haven't seen much of Jokic live and have been wondering why there's so much hype. After watching that video, I understand now that he's a special player.

This guy looks like Aaron Rodgers out there. My God. Incredible passer. And nothing makes me oooh and ahhh more than a pretty pass. What a fun video to watch. Thanks.

[lars_rosenberg]

You could say the same for all ball-dominant players, including LeBron and Giannis. Jokic is a point center, just like GIannis is a point forward. Giannis wasn't so good when he played off the ball (before the 2016 All Star Break) and he would still be that player if he played with John Wall.
Rim protectors are role players, not superstars. Jokic is not going to be a role player and his defense isn't so bad actually, he's ok.

People should stop this role players/superstar distinction as if it had any meaning. Everybody has a role in a team, and a defensive anchor can have the most important one.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you.
A superstar is a player who is given the chance to run the team and use all of his strength in full. A role player on the other hand is limited in what he can do on the floor.
For example Shumpert can't go and take all the shots and never pass to LeBron, the coach would bench him in a second.

[dhsilv2]

I would need to watch more on him, but I don't see nearly the top side potential here. He lacks athletic ability and I fully expect after last season he's going to get a LOT more defensive game planning. I think he'll struggle to get to that next level and he hasn't shown he can play big minutes yet.

Perennial allstar? Absolutely. MVP candidate? He might have a season but I don't see it.

I still have players like KAT, AD, Embiid, Simmons, etc all having a higher potential upside.

Totally agree. Jokic is incredibly skilled but his athletic upside is very low. The NBA is primarily a league of athletes, and skilled guys with poor athletic ability have a ceiling. Look back at MVPs over the years and very few were below average NBA athletes.

I think he's near his ceiling currently unless he can improve his body and athleticism.

Uhh, he is 7'3". Upside is never low for a guy that is 7'3". The guys that need to jump high are the guys that are 6'6" so they can shoot over bigger players. He is already tall, he doesn't need to jump to compensate for a lack of height.

Also he seems to be very coordinated and agile for a big guy, usually that is the biggest problem for big guys like him. Look at that video where he scored 40 points and he did two spin moves at the top of the key. Very few big men can do that. Also he is already very strong and bulky for a guy 21 years old, again that is another problem with big stiffs, they are understrengthed. He has a lot of room and time to get even stronger and no one will be able to stop him from playing bully ball around the basket. And if you double or triple team him then he will just make an amazing pass to an open guy.

Jumping <> athletic ability.

It's maybe 15% of it. He doesn't have lateral speed which is a huge issue defensively. His vertical speed is good, but not great. He is a monster in height, but he lacks strength.

[ReKon]

Once again i love the kid but you also have to fit the team you are in as a center. If he played in Washington for example his passing ability which is the strongest part of his game wouldn't shine so much.But perrenial DPOY candidates like Gobert Whiteside or Embiid can fit any team's playstyle. Therefore my expectations for Jokic giventhat he can improve his defence a bit is that he is going to become a slightly better Marc Gasol. That's what i expect and if he can do that i will be very happy with his progression because Marc Gasol is by no means a scrub.

You could say the same for all ball-dominant players, including LeBron and Giannis. Jokic is a point center, just like GIannis is a point forward. Giannis wasn't so good when he played off the ball (before the 2016 All Star Break) and he would still be that player if he played with John Wall.
Rim protectors are role players, not superstars. Jokic is not going to be a role player and his defense isn't so bad actually, he's ok.

Yet again you are talking about one side of the ball. Either way if Giannis or LeBron were playing in Washington Wall would be the one who would have to adapt especially if Lebron is there cause Giannis let s say is unproven yet. Defensively prime LeBron at least and current Giannis had/have a much bigger impact on the court than Jokic. And they are on par or better as creators. I just think you might have used a wrong comparison here.

How are ELITE defensive centers role players? Do you seriously think that Gobert who affects the defensive side of the ball as much or probably more than Jokic with the offensive side of it is a role player? Because i feel you are exaggerating.

[Johnny Firpo]

MVPs, who are average athletically (or at least not great) are actually not that rare, Bird, Dirk, Nash, Curry, that's like eight-nine MVP throphies for the last 30-35 years. Also, you could argue that the Birds, Dirks and Currys of the world aren't uncommon because they are not elite athletes, but uncommon because their skillsets are so freaking rare. From a skill standpoint, Jokic certainly belongs in that conversation, and every advanced stat tells you, or as a matter of fact, screams you, that he might be closer to KAJ in terms of potential than your Chris Boshs or Chris Webbers. He may or may not get in the Top 30 when it's all said and done, but the potential is unreal (obviously not saying he will get to KAJ's level).

[Johnny Firpo]

Yet again you are talking about one side of the ball. Either way if Giannis or LeBron were playing in Washington Wall would be the one who would have to adapt especially if Lebron is there cause Giannis let s say is unproven yet. Defensively prime LeBron at least and current Giannis had/have a much bigger impact on the court than Jokic. And they are on par or better as creators. I just think you might have used a wrong comparison here.

How are ELITE defensive centers role players? Do you seriously think that Gobert who affects the defensive side of the ball as much or probably more than Jokic with the offensive side of it is a role player? Because i feel you are exaggerating.

Jokic's defense is definitely underrated. Look up his advanced stats, he had like the same defensive rating than Embiid. He is a bad rim protector, but actually good at everything else. Jokic as a rookie, playing 22 minutes a game, actually put up a top-10 DRPM in the entire league. He will never compete for DPOY, but his defensive woes are way overstated.

[Jiminy Glick]

He needs to get his body in a shape a little better and get stronger, there is no reason he can't be jacked. If he can do that we are talking better then Ewing.

[Stillwater]

mvp candidate is a stretch, but definitely has makings of likely long term nba 2nd team maybe 1 or 2 1st teams all nba and a lock for a multi year all star.

[Lana Del Rey]

He is already the best center in the NBA. Within two to four years, we will be talking about him as the best center since Shaq.