Are the Raptors currently the 2nd best team in the East?

[Winsome Gerbil]

When you look at those Home/Road splits -- the Raptors have played the fewest home games (10) in the entire league, vs. 16 road games...it's entirely possible.

Then again, we know these Raps. Even if they look that way today, they're likely too well established to suddenly be taking huge steps forward.

You know them?
Too well established?

Do you know they have an outstanding bench, and a COMPLETELY revamped offense? They went from an unfriendly playoff offense of isos and high P&R to a motion strong style open offense similar in concept to the Spurs / Warriors.

They put way more pressure on defenses than every before because of their style.

Ibaka is once again playing like he did in his best years with OKC....

They have tons of great youth, length, defensive awareness and heart.

No, you clearly DON'T know this Raptors team.

Having depth and young hustlers is typically something that has considerably more impact in the long regular season than it does in short series where opponents are rested and focused on you. In the end, when the playoffs roll around the Raptors will still go as far as Lowry and DeRozan can take them, and that's been a dicey proposition.

[CoachD]

When you look at those Home/Road splits -- the Raptors have played the fewest home games (10) in the entire league, vs. 16 road games...it's entirely possible.

Then again, we know these Raps. Even if they look that way today, they're likely too well established to suddenly be taking huge steps forward.

You know them?
Too well established?

Do you know they have an outstanding bench, and a COMPLETELY revamped offense? They went from an unfriendly playoff offense of isos and high P&R to a motion strong style open offense similar in concept to the Spurs / Warriors.

They put way more pressure on defenses than every before because of their style.

Ibaka is once again playing like he did in his best years with OKC....

They have tons of great youth, length, defensive awareness and heart.

No, you clearly DON'T know this Raptors team.

Having depth and young hustlers is typically something that has considerably more impact in the long regular season than it does in short series where opponents are rested and focused on you. In the end, when the playoffs roll around the Raptors will still go as far as Lowry and DeRozan can take them, and that's been a dicey proposition.

Except that isn't true.

Derozan's playoff struggles are GROSSLY exaggerated and Lowry is playing far less minutes to ensure he is healthy.
The Raptors NEVER HAD a dependable PF until this past year and Lowry only play like 2 games with Ibaka before the playoffs. Ibaka is now fully integrated and is beasting.

OG is hitting 3s at 43% and playing great D.
CJ is a 40% shooter.

Replacing Carroll and Patterson with those two ALONE makes Toronto infinitely more dangerous in the playoffs. As we saw in years past, when teams key on Lowry or DD, they leave shooters open. Leave those guys open and its 3.

[Vampirate]

Honestly, who cares who's 2nd or 3rd or even 1st in the East this year. All roads go through Golden State, not Cleveland now.

[steefP2]

I feel like we need a new rule where whenever a thread like this gets posted about Toronto or Boston, neither fanbases should be allowed to post. Partly because it always deteriorates into a feces slinging contest and partly because im truly interested in the takes of other fans but shifting through all this mud is annoying and a slog.

[RapZilla]

I feel like we need a new rule where whenever a thread like this gets posted about Toronto or Boston, neither fanbases should be allowed to post. Partly because it always deteriorates into a feces slinging contest and partly because im truly interested in the takes of other fans but shifting through all this mud is annoying and a slog.

As a Raps fan I agree completely.

Anyway... this thread is just a carbon copy of the "who would win a playoff series TOR VS BOS"?

[Vampirate]

I feel like we need a new rule where whenever a thread like this gets posted about Toronto or Boston, neither fanbases should be allowed to post. Partly because it always deteriorates into a feces slinging contest and partly because im truly interested in the takes of other fans but shifting through all this mud is annoying and a slog.

All true.

Also i'd love to see both teams in the playoffs, the general board game thread would certainly be entertaining.

[UcanUwill]

They actually look watchable to me now. And have you heard, Jonas is shooting 3s now, he is close for an 50/40/90 season ha.

[MrSparkle]

Raptors have drafted really well, and they're better than prior years, that's for sure.

Cavs are trending up, but they're gonna have a lot of vulnerabilties this May.

[Froob]

Ok. Then perhaps we should wait till this upcoming playoffs to see how he fares before dubbing him a "big time playoff performer". I seem to remember the minutes that Lebron stopped playing last playoffs that Cavs team seemingly fell off a cliff. It'll be interesting to see how Kyrie fares.

Like when Cavs were falling apart up 2-1 vs Boston and LeBron was in foul trouble and Kyrie went HAM and basically ended the series?

You talking about game 4 where James scored 34 points, 15 of them in the 4th to seal the deal? That game?

Yeah but without Kyrie's big 2nd quarter that game may have gotten away from them.

[OGLife]

Yeah generally when your best player gets hurt your team will fall apart. And if this happens to Kyrie, the Celtics would actually lose their 2 best players

Don’t care for excuses, just stating the fact. Boston goes as far as Kyrie takes them. The Raptors go as far as Lowry and DD take them

Well Kyrie is a big time playoff performer who hit one of the greatest shots in NBA history and Lowry and DD are perennial playoff disappointments so..

Cool story. Lets see how well of a playoff performer he is when he is the best guy on the team and he is no longer on the best team in the East.

[Vee-Rex]

People are arguing that Kyrie isn't a big time playoff performer?

[hongdayuan]

Well that team was total trash and was coached by Mike Brown lol..

Ok. Then perhaps we should wait till this upcoming playoffs to see how he fares before dubbing him a "big time playoff performer". I seem to remember the minutes that Lebron stopped playing last playoffs that Cavs team seemingly fell off a cliff. It'll be interesting to see how Kyrie fares.

Like when Cavs were falling apart up 2-1 vs Boston and LeBron was in foul trouble and Kyrie went HAM and basically ended the series?

Also says something abt that Boston team tho...

[Tai]

- LeBron is still best team on the East, and will play 8th straight NBA final as EC champion

- Boston is 2nd best, but without Hayward, their place in ECF is not secured

There are 4 very similar teams in terms of quality on East, so there is no #3, but #3-#6 place:
- Toronto
- Milwaukee since Bledsoe trade is not the same team. They are 11-5 since that trade and still improving
- Washington belongs to this group, they will regroup fast now when their best player John Wall is back
- Philadelphia is actually most talented out of this 4 teams, but they are too young and destined to have too many dumb and cheap loses this season

Toronto plays at a much higher level than the teams you have lumped them in with.

Boston's defense is regressing to the mean, and they don't score enough to win in the playoffs. Toronto would beat them in a series.

The Celtics have scored 105+ points in 10 out of their last 16 games, and are #10 in Offensive Efficiency. What do you define as not scoring enough?

It's so ridiculous how uneducated fans from south of the border dismiss the Raptors without a thought and simply say "they'll choke in the playoffs".

So because Boston won championships LONG BEFORE anyone on the current roster was playing, that makes them better in the playoffs? Boston played like trash last year and was almost beaten by Chicago. A healthy Rondo WOULD HAVE eliminated them.

They got trounced worse than Toronto by Cleveland despite the series going an extra game.

Where did this come from? No, it's called the Celtics had the #1 seed and made the ECF last season. That's the reward for getting it, you get to face an easier 2nd round opponent, and that still didn't stop people from saying the Celtics may lose to the Wizards, mostly in 6. Instead, the Celtics went into Game 6 UP 3-2, and even now, I'm not happy they gave that game away late. But all the same they won Game 7. Again, not everyone necessarily thought the Celtics would make the ECF cause you know, fake #1 seed.

If the narrative on last season was ONLY that the Celtics got to avoid the Raptors by getting the #1 seed, I may have accepted that, but the way I see it? It seems some people supposedly just didn't think the Celtics were good ("fake" #1 seed?), and I'm wondering if now it's just people recycling their cold rotting takes from last season, such as wanting to wait until the playoffs to see how this year's Celtics do, which makes me think they feel they can't criticize them now but deep down inside wanna say they aren't good again or overrated.

[dhsilv2]

No. Cherry picked no name advanced stats don't make you the 2nd best team in the east. Use the eye test and wait till at least all star break to do these comparisons as it's so early right now

No name? I guess espn is now an obscure blog nobody reads?

http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi

[711takeover]

Yup. Boston is overrated. Once Irving’s body gives out, peace.

Yeah generally when your best player gets hurt your team will fall apart. And if this happens to Kyrie, the Celtics would actually lose their 2 best players

Don’t care for excuses, just stating the fact. Boston goes as far as Kyrie takes them. The Raptors go as far as Lowry and DD take them

Yeah obviously if Kyrie goes down, the Celtics will fall apart. If Lowry and DeRozan go down, they will also fall apart

[CoachD]

- LeBron is still best team on the East, and will play 8th straight NBA final as EC champion

- Boston is 2nd best, but without Hayward, their place in ECF is not secured

There are 4 very similar teams in terms of quality on East, so there is no #3, but #3-#6 place:
- Toronto
- Milwaukee since Bledsoe trade is not the same team. They are 11-5 since that trade and still improving
- Washington belongs to this group, they will regroup fast now when their best player John Wall is back
- Philadelphia is actually most talented out of this 4 teams, but they are too young and destined to have too many dumb and cheap loses this season

Toronto plays at a much higher level than the teams you have lumped them in with.

Boston's defense is regressing to the mean, and they don't score enough to win in the playoffs. Toronto would beat them in a series.

The Celtics have scored 105+ points in 10 out of their last 16 games, and are #10 in Offensive Efficiency. What do you define as not scoring enough?

It's so ridiculous how uneducated fans from south of the border dismiss the Raptors without a thought and simply say "they'll choke in the playoffs".

So because Boston won championships LONG BEFORE anyone on the current roster was playing, that makes them better in the playoffs? Boston played like trash last year and was almost beaten by Chicago. A healthy Rondo WOULD HAVE eliminated them.

They got trounced worse than Toronto by Cleveland despite the series going an extra game.

Where did this come from? No, it's called the Celtics had the #1 seed and made the ECF last season. That's the reward for getting it, you get to face an easier 2nd round opponent, and that still didn't stop people from saying the Celtics may lose to the Wizards, mostly in 6. Instead, the Celtics went into Game 6 UP 3-2, and even now, I'm not happy they gave that game away late. But all the same they won Game 7. Again, not everyone necessarily thought the Celtics would make the ECF cause you know, fake #1 seed.

If the narrative on last season was ONLY that the Celtics got to avoid the Raptors by getting the #1 seed, I may have accepted that, but the way I see it? It seems some people supposedly just didn't think the Celtics were good ("fake" #1 seed?), and I'm wondering if now it's just people recycling their cold rotting takes from last season, such as wanting to wait until the playoffs to see how this year's Celtics do, which makes me think they feel they can't criticize them now but deep down inside wanna say they aren't good again or overrated.

Let's be honest....

Boston got the #1 seed by default. Cavs were playing like trash in 2nd half and Toronto was without Lowry the whole second half. Had they been healthy, Toronto would have taken back that #1 seed. In that scenario, Boston loses to the Cavs in round 2, and Toronto goes to the ECF for the 2nd year in a row.

[711takeover]

No. Cherry picked no name advanced stats don't make you the 2nd best team in the east. Use the eye test and wait till at least all star break to do these comparisons as it's so early right now

No name? I guess espn is now an obscure blog nobody reads?

http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi

And the funny thing is that the Celtics have a better RPI

[NetsDynasty2012]

Toronto plays at a much higher level than the teams you have lumped them in with.

Boston's defense is regressing to the mean, and they don't score enough to win in the playoffs. Toronto would beat them in a series.

The Celtics have scored 105+ points in 10 out of their last 16 games, and are #10 in Offensive Efficiency. What do you define as not scoring enough?

It's so ridiculous how uneducated fans from south of the border dismiss the Raptors without a thought and simply say "they'll choke in the playoffs".

So because Boston won championships LONG BEFORE anyone on the current roster was playing, that makes them better in the playoffs? Boston played like trash last year and was almost beaten by Chicago. A healthy Rondo WOULD HAVE eliminated them.

They got trounced worse than Toronto by Cleveland despite the series going an extra game.

Where did this come from? No, it's called the Celtics had the #1 seed and made the ECF last season. That's the reward for getting it, you get to face an easier 2nd round opponent, and that still didn't stop people from saying the Celtics may lose to the Wizards, mostly in 6. Instead, the Celtics went into Game 6 UP 3-2, and even now, I'm not happy they gave that game away late. But all the same they won Game 7. Again, not everyone necessarily thought the Celtics would make the ECF cause you know, fake #1 seed.

If the narrative on last season was ONLY that the Celtics got to avoid the Raptors by getting the #1 seed, I may have accepted that, but the way I see it? It seems some people supposedly just didn't think the Celtics were good ("fake" #1 seed?), and I'm wondering if now it's just people recycling their cold rotting takes from last season, such as wanting to wait until the playoffs to see how this year's Celtics do, which makes me think they feel they can't criticize them now but deep down inside wanna say they aren't good again or overrated.

Let's be honest....

Boston got the #1 seed by default. Cavs were playing like trash in 2nd half and Toronto was without Lowry the whole second half. Had they been healthy, Toronto would have taken back that #1 seed. In that scenario, Boston loses to the Cavs in round 2, and Toronto goes to the ECF for the 2nd year in a row.

You can play with your hypotheticals and hindsight all you want, but reality is reality.

[711takeover]

Toronto plays at a much higher level than the teams you have lumped them in with.

Boston's defense is regressing to the mean, and they don't score enough to win in the playoffs. Toronto would beat them in a series.

The Celtics have scored 105+ points in 10 out of their last 16 games, and are #10 in Offensive Efficiency. What do you define as not scoring enough?

It's so ridiculous how uneducated fans from south of the border dismiss the Raptors without a thought and simply say "they'll choke in the playoffs".

So because Boston won championships LONG BEFORE anyone on the current roster was playing, that makes them better in the playoffs? Boston played like trash last year and was almost beaten by Chicago. A healthy Rondo WOULD HAVE eliminated them.

They got trounced worse than Toronto by Cleveland despite the series going an extra game.

Where did this come from? No, it's called the Celtics had the #1 seed and made the ECF last season. That's the reward for getting it, you get to face an easier 2nd round opponent, and that still didn't stop people from saying the Celtics may lose to the Wizards, mostly in 6. Instead, the Celtics went into Game 6 UP 3-2, and even now, I'm not happy they gave that game away late. But all the same they won Game 7. Again, not everyone necessarily thought the Celtics would make the ECF cause you know, fake #1 seed.

If the narrative on last season was ONLY that the Celtics got to avoid the Raptors by getting the #1 seed, I may have accepted that, but the way I see it? It seems some people supposedly just didn't think the Celtics were good ("fake" #1 seed?), and I'm wondering if now it's just people recycling their cold rotting takes from last season, such as wanting to wait until the playoffs to see how this year's Celtics do, which makes me think they feel they can't criticize them now but deep down inside wanna say they aren't good again or overrated.

Let's be honest....

Boston got the #1 seed by default. Cavs were playing like trash in 2nd half and Toronto was without Lowry the whole second half. Had they been healthy, Toronto would have taken back that #1 seed. In that scenario, Boston loses to the Cavs in round 2, and Toronto goes to the ECF for the 2nd year in a row.

Well that didn't happen so who cares

[username_taken]

You know them?
Too well established?

Do you know they have an outstanding bench, and a COMPLETELY revamped offense? They went from an unfriendly playoff offense of isos and high P&R to a motion strong style open offense similar in concept to the Spurs / Warriors.

They put way more pressure on defenses than every before because of their style.

Ibaka is once again playing like he did in his best years with OKC....

They have tons of great youth, length, defensive awareness and heart.

No, you clearly DON'T know this Raptors team.

Having depth and young hustlers is typically something that has considerably more impact in the long regular season than it does in short series where opponents are rested and focused on you. In the end, when the playoffs roll around the Raptors will still go as far as Lowry and DeRozan can take them, and that's been a dicey proposition.

Except that isn't true.

Derozan's playoff struggles are GROSSLY exaggerated and Lowry is playing far less minutes to ensure he is healthy.
The Raptors NEVER HAD a dependable PF until this past year and Lowry only play like 2 games with Ibaka before the playoffs. Ibaka is now fully integrated and is beasting.

OG is hitting 3s at 43% and playing great D.
CJ is a 40% shooter.

Replacing Carroll and Patterson with those two ALONE makes Toronto infinitely more dangerous in the playoffs. As we saw in years past, when teams key on Lowry or DD, they leave shooters open. Leave those guys open and its 3.

Lowry is the one whose playoff struggles are overstated - DeMar is one of the worst high volume players in recent playoff history