Nothin but Nets

[GeorgeMarcus]

I watched about 15 Nets games this year outside of the full playoff series.

Yeah, your posts pretty much tell us that much

I mean, 20 game sample size + obsessive knowledge of the stats is more than enough to speak about the topic intelligently.

[MrDollarBills]

And that’s exactly where you and others are misunderstanding the data I presented. The Nets were a 42 win team not because they had an average/above average starting unit, but because of their depth! I doubt Joe would disagree with that assessment.

The Nets had great depth but that's not the main reason why we won 42 games...

It was the improvement of guys like D Lo, Dinwiddie, Joe harris, which was a huge factor for us.

I’m beating a dead horse here but your starters would not have been regularly outscored if they were above average

you need to watch games instead of sitting there trying to piece the story together on basketball reference.com because it's not helping you. you keep doubling down and you continue to tell on yourself. you're out of pocket, big time.

99% of the games we played in last season were competitive dog fights we had no business being in, we were projected to be in the zion sweeptakes FFS..and yet, you're sitting here looking solely at on/off stats when that isn't going to give you the full story.

You don't know what you're talking about. You only allegedly watched 15 games. the fact that you've downplayed Joe Harris speaks volumes. You're clueless. stop it.

[MrDollarBills]

I watched about 15 Nets games this year outside of the full playoff series.

Yeah, your posts pretty much tell us that much

I mean, 20 game sample size + obsessive knowledge of the stats is more than enough to speak about the topic intelligently.

No it isn't. you're sitting here arguing with people who watched all 82 games plus the playoffs of the Nets and you're trying to tell us that the sky is purple when the rest of us see that it's blue.

You don't know what the **** you're talking about. seriously, you don't.

[GeorgeMarcus]

The Nets had great depth but that's not the main reason why we won 42 games...

It was the improvement of guys like D Lo, Dinwiddie, Joe harris, which was a huge factor for us.

I’m beating a dead horse here but your starters would not have been regularly outscored if they were above average

you need to watch games instead of sitting there trying to piece the story together on basketball reference.com because it's not helping you. you keep doubling down and you continue to tell on yourself. you're out of pocket, big time.

99% of the games we played in last season were competitive dog fights we had no business being in, we were projected to be in the zion sweeptakes FFS..and yet, you're sitting here looking solely at on/off stats when that isn't going to give you the full story.

You don't know what you're talking about. You only allegedly watched 15 games. the fact that you've downplayed Joe Harris speaks volumes. You're clueless. stop it.

I think it’s past your bedtime man. I guess you can ignore reality to suit whatever narrative you’d like. No skin off my back

[MrDollarBills]

I keep pointing out over and over again..

Last year the Great All Mighty Nets, finished 1 game ahead of both the Magic & Pistons last season.

Also even with Irving and Jordan additions, if this team was in the WC?

75% of forum would not have them making the playoffs.

Of course Net fans are running from this...

I give you this, next year with KD watch out. This year 1st round playoff exit.

Just another butt hurt Knicks fan.

Maybe you will actually get the # 1 pick next year.

yep, these dudes are hurting bad af right now. they can't stand what's happening. they try to convince themselves that RJ Barrett and their 10 PFs they signed while dumpster diving in free agency will yield fruit, but no one takes them seriously.

[MrDollarBills]

I’m beating a dead horse here but your starters would not have been regularly outscored if they were above average

you need to watch games instead of sitting there trying to piece the story together on basketball reference.com because it's not helping you. you keep doubling down and you continue to tell on yourself. you're out of pocket, big time.

99% of the games we played in last season were competitive dog fights we had no business being in, we were projected to be in the zion sweeptakes FFS..and yet, you're sitting here looking solely at on/off stats when that isn't going to give you the full story.

You don't know what you're talking about. You only allegedly watched 15 games. the fact that you've downplayed Joe Harris speaks volumes. You're clueless. stop it.

I think it’s past your bedtime man. I guess you can ignore reality to suit whatever narrative you’d like. No skin off my back

Okay, so we won't see eye to eye. cool. How about this...you have an open invite to come on the Nets forum with all of this. repost it. feel free to jump in the water with your hot takes, lets see what happens. i won't even chime in, i'll let the other folks dissect it and respond.

[Prokorov]

So RHJ was +0.7 when the Nets were up by 20 and no one played defense. The dynasty ends before it even began.

you simply cant lose third string, oft-injured, minimum salary players and expect to compete in this league.

Nets should tank.

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson was better than Rodions Kurucs, based on these on/off numbers. That doesn't explain why Hollis-Jefferson was out of the rotation, and is now off the team, but hey these on/off numbers w/o context say that he's better so lets run with that. The Nets are totally **** ed

sure RHJ is gone but look at that deal he signed! how are the nets supposed to compete with toronto when they are offerring him the FULL veterans minimum!

[Prokorov]

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson was better than Rodions Kurucs, based on these on/off numbers. That doesn't explain why Hollis-Jefferson was out of the rotation, and is now off the team, but hey these on/off numbers w/o context say that he's better so lets run with that. The Nets are totally **** ed

No need to engage. You realize he started this thread as a Philly fan looking to knock his competition. Read the OP.

His main flaw is not understanding why cast offs like DMC (salary dump), Dudley (most assumed a buy out), Dinwiddie and Harris (D league castoffs) etc have done so well in Beooklyn....coaching, culture and performance team. To think this year's crop won't react similarly is what he is missing.

Also our bench was one of the best in the league is what his stats tell me more than anything. Atkinson wants a fast pace and low minute rotation and thus our bench excelled in that role.

He also clearly doesn't watch the Nets if he thinks Napier, Graham and RHJ were rotation pieces.

But how will the Nets match the bench energy lost? RHJ and Dudley absolutely were motivating factors on the sidelines.

Theo Pinson is the GOAT sideline player

[Prokorov]

C'mon Joe, don't fall into the same trap as MrDollarBills. I didn't even include Graham in the OP because he didn't meet the minutes requirement, and I haven't once mentioned Napier or RHJ outside of the OP.

Seems like that is the most critical part of the thread and they probably should have been left out.

Why do those guys seem like the most critical part? The guys that I've mentioned specifically are D'Lo, Davis, Carroll and Dudley. A lot of words are being put into my mouth though, so maybe therein lies the confusion.

I'll reiterate that I predicted 44 wins this season, 2 games better than last year. I'm not calling for Doomsday or anything.

the nets had their longest stretch of winning when dudley was out of the rotation. carroll was hurt for 15-20 games and completely ineffective during his early comeback for another 15-20. they were non factors

Davis was a nice backup, but he had just as many games where his D killed us and his offense was terrible.

Russell is the only loss there and eh was massively upgraded to Kyrie, who is a better fit in kennys system

[Prokorov]

RHJ averaged over 20mpg for 59 games. That’s pretty significant, and more playing time than LeVert for example. I used minute restrictions for exactly this reason.

RHJ was the nets worst player last season, by a large margin. he played most of his minutes in garbage time or as an emergency injury replacement. he was 100% not a rotation player for the nets, and fell in line as a 3rd string center.

to even try and make an argument that he was a low level backop is absurd and shows complete ignorance of the nets last season

RHJ had zero role on this team and provided nothing positive outside of being a good cheerleader

[Prokorov]

Again the main reason I don't think this Nets team will be anything great without Durant is two fold...Irving is overrated and unproven on his own and Russell is better than most people realize as a talent and team player. But, most won't admit the latter and rather go off his Laker narrative.

Kyrie could have a monster individual season but yeah i dont see it translating into anymore success than you guys had last season . Especially if he submits defeat early on when he sees its just not enough to get it done. Last yrs Nets were playing with house money and everyone was having fun bcuz no real superstar on the team so equal touches , Kyrie could kill that vibe rly rly fast if he doesnt share the wealth with Karis and Deandre , Spencer

equal touches?

Kyries usage is lower then russells

[Prokorov]

RHJ averaged over 20mpg for 59 games. That’s pretty significant, and more playing time than LeVert for example. I used minute restrictions for exactly this reason.

I never stated any of those guys aren’t replaceable. My conclusion was: the Nets did not add Kyrie/DeAndre to a 42 win team, which is true.

I wasn’t hunting for stats to make the Nets look bad. I stumbled across them and thought it was revealing. I live for different iterations of on/off data which I think is fairly well known. If I stumble across revealing stats about Boston or Toronto then I’ll be happy to post a new thread about it.

RHJ racked up several DNPs last season due to being out of the rotation. He was not even remotely a reason why the Nets won 42 games.

Still struggling with comprehending on/off data I see? I don’t think I can help you beyond what we’ve already discussed. Probably time we call it quits.

ive already shown you why plus/minus is a terrible indicator... and how the nets as a team had a negative plus minus but still managed a winning record.

plus minus is a completely uselss stats, especially without context.

there are great on/off stats, you have used none of them.

[Prokorov]

Random Harris facts from last season..



Want proof? Lewis supplies it. The Nets are 30-16 when Harris scores in double figures. They’re just 4-12 when he doesn’t, and winless in the five games he’s missed.

The Nets run Harris far more than any other player on the team. Harris runs about 1.39 miles per game according to NBA’s player tracking data, which is right on par with other off-ball shooters like Hield and Klay Thompson, two comparables for Harris at least on offense.

Nets offense produces more than 109 points per 100 possessions when Harris is on the floor and slips to 105 points per 100 possessions when he is off. Since December 1, that number has been even more pronounced with the Nets offense posting 112.9 points per 100 possessions when Harris is on vs. 103.3 when he is off.

Harris has become aware of the impact he has on the floor and is not afraid to take it to the rack, posting an average of more than 7 drives per game this season, up from 4.5 last season.

. Harris takes 51 percent of his shots beyond the arc, but he also takes 28 percent of his shots within three feet of the basket and is converting at an uber efficient 61% clip.1

2 seasons ago...

More impressively, he was the best player in the NBA in scoring on drives to the rim (62.7 percent), topping second-place LeBron James.

All from netsdaily articles.

But leave it to someone who doesn't watch Nets games to call Joe Harris a "below average starter"


Joe Harris was easily our most consistent player last season. He sucked in the playoffs against Philly (and I'm assuming that is why the OP doesn't rate him), but aside from that, in the regular season, he was excellent.

I watched about 15 Nets games this year outside of the full playoff series. I’m a league pass junkie. If I provided you a list of the 150 NBA starters I’m sure you’d realize he’s not above average. JJ Redick wasn’t either for comparison. DLo was the only Nets starter who was.

so you missed 80% of nets games but want to spout garbage like you have any idea about this team? you lost all credibility the second you said RHJ had some kind of role on this team. anyone who knows anything about the nets knows RHJ was not in the rotation and a garbage minutes king.

Joe Harris was easily an above avg starter, and the nets second best player to russell. and impact wise, no one had a bigger impact on our offense. you want to talk about on/off? we were winless when he didnt play

[Prokorov]

The statistical proof is in that Trader_Joe post, and yet here you are again, telling me that he's not. You have Nets fans telling you otherwise but apparently, we're all wrong. We must have all imagined Joe Harris having the best 3pt % in the league, and one of the best finishing % in the league. Really below average stuff. He led the Nets in minutes along D Lo, but he still wasn't important to our success I guess.

That wasn’t statistical “proof” of being an above average starter... You realize that being one of the better starters on your team doesn’t translate to a league wide ranking, right? I already debunked the claim about his fg% around the rim which was pretty average. His defense firmly below average. Yes his skill set is useful, I’m not denying that, but it’s not unlike a fan base to overrate players on their team.

So then explain this to me, how were the Nets a 42 win team with "below average" Joe Harris leading the team in minutes and being one of the most important rotation players? Because I can tell you that you've yet to provide anything more useful than your opinion so far.

RHJ carried us to those wins! with napiers help! have you seen their plus minus!

[Prokorov]

That wasn’t statistical “proof” of being an above average starter... You realize that being one of the better starters on your team doesn’t translate to a league wide ranking, right? I already debunked the claim about his fg% around the rim which was pretty average. His defense firmly below average. Yes his skill set is useful, I’m not denying that, but it’s not unlike a fan base to overrate players on their team.

So then explain this to me, how were the Nets a 42 win team with "below average" Joe Harris leading the team in minutes and being one of the most important rotation players? Because I can tell you that you've yet to provide anything more useful than your opinion so far.

And that’s exactly where you and others are misunderstanding the data I presented. The Nets were a 42 win team not because they had an average/above average starting unit, but because of their depth! I doubt Joe would disagree with that assessment.

depth? i guess not much depth at SG since we were 0-5 without harris in the lineup and our offense crapped the bed when he was off the floor

[Prokorov]

And that’s exactly where you and others are misunderstanding the data I presented. The Nets were a 42 win team not because they had an average/above average starting unit, but because of their depth! I doubt Joe would disagree with that assessment.

The Nets had great depth but that's not the main reason why we won 42 games...

It was the improvement of guys like D Lo, Dinwiddie, Joe harris, which was a huge factor for us.

I’m beating a dead horse here but your starters would not have been regularly outscored if they were above average

they werent. as ive already showed you, cummulative plus minus does not tell the whole story. lopsised losses can skew it. you can get blown out once and win several close games and have a negative plus minus.

Russell and Harris CARRIED this team. if you look at our wins, they have 1 thing in common, those 2 guys balled out

[Prokorov]

I watched about 15 Nets games this year outside of the full playoff series.

Yeah, your posts pretty much tell us that much

I mean, 20 game sample size + obsessive knowledge of the stats is more than enough to speak about the topic intelligently.

missing 80% of nets games and not understanding how terrible a stat plus minus is leads to the ignorance you are spewing here.

i mean, it could not be more clear you know nothing about the nets to say harris is below avg or RHJ was a big part of the nets success, neither could be further from the truth

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah, your posts pretty much tell us that much

I mean, 20 game sample size + obsessive knowledge of the stats is more than enough to speak about the topic intelligently.

missing 80% of nets games and not understanding how terrible a stat plus minus is leads to the ignorance you are spewing here.

i mean, it could not be more clear you know nothing about the nets to say harris is below avg or RHJ was a big part of the nets success, neither could be further from the truth

Basketball reference is a great site but when dudes use it to try and weave a narrative that they have very little understanding of they end up looking stupid.

Context always matters with the numbers. Like you can look at Russell's high usage rate and FGAs and try to say that he was a ball domineering chucker just based off of that when in reality he was the best playmaker on the team and ran the offense better than anyone else.

I only watched the 76ers when they were on national television and in the playoffs. I couldn't fathom sitting here and dictating to Sixers fans the ins and outs of their team just by using basketball reference as a tool. It would be an unbelievably ignorant thing to do, yet here we are being lectured about the Nets roster by a dude that watched "20 games", if that's even true. OP thought this thread would be cute but all it did was expose his own ignorance about the Nets and frankly, basketball statistics in general. Embarrassing.

[MapleMamba]

I keep pointing out over and over again..

Last year the Great All Mighty Nets, finished 1 game ahead of both the Magic & Pistons last season.

Also even with Irving and Jordan additions, if this team was in the WC?

75% of forum would not have them making the playoffs.

Of course Net fans are running from this...

I give you this, next year with KD watch out. This year 1st round playoff exit.

Just another butt hurt Knicks fan.

Maybe you will actually get the # 1 pick next year.

yep, these dudes are hurting bad af right now. they can't stand what's happening. they try to convince themselves that RJ Barrett and their 10 PFs they signed while dumpster diving in free agency will yield fruit, but no one takes them seriously.

Typical Nets fan response. Avoid the question and run from it.

Some Net fans keep pointing to their 42 win
record last season. But it's only +1 better then both the Magic & Pistons record of last season. Yet you see it over and over again in this topic.

But when asked if they really believe, that they would make the playoffs in the WC? They again run from the question.

Step up and have some balls, answer the question.

We all know the answer and so do You.

Ok back to your Knick insults and avoiding the hard questions. By the way the forum not stupid, they understand your running from the question.

Not just one Net fan, but THREE have quoted me and refuse to answer.

[Trader_Joe]

Just another butt hurt Knicks fan.

Maybe you will actually get the # 1 pick next year.

yep, these dudes are hurting bad af right now. they can't stand what's happening. they try to convince themselves that RJ Barrett and their 10 PFs they signed while dumpster diving in free agency will yield fruit, but no one takes them seriously.

Typical Nets fan response. Avoid the question and run from it.

Some Net fans keep pointing to their 42 win
record last season. But it's only +1 better then both the Magic & Pistons record of last season. Yet you see it over and over again in this topic.

But when asked if they really believe, that they would make the playoffs in the WC? They again run from the question.

Step up and have some balls, answer the question.

We all know the answer and so do You.

Ok back to your Knick insults and avoiding the hard questions. By the way the forum not stupid, they understand your running from the question.

Not just one Net fan, but THREE have quoted me and refuse to answer.

What is the question and who is running from what?

Would the Nets make the playoffs in the West?
Who cares???
They play in the East.

Can we ask semi relevant questions?
Like, what if every Net player died would they still finish ahead of the Knicks?
Probably.