Magic Exercising 20-21 Option on Fultz

[basketballRob]

Yeah I mean the fact that Simmons coming off an all star appearance signed a full 5 year deal while Porzingis coming off a lost season got 4 years and a player option is a pretty clear example of the advantages of locking certain guys up early.

As far as Fultz goes... if they wanted to pick up his option I can see the argument there really wasn't any point in waiting. Even if he shows progress in training camp he can always regress like he did last year. At a certain point you just have to decide whether you're committing to him or not.

I’m not sure I get your point. Porzingis coming off an ACL was much more likely to push for a long-term deal. Simmons potentially coming off a healthy, second consecutive all star season would be more likely to be empowered to take a one year max with the intention of moving on if he was pissed that the Sixers made him wait. We’re living in the player empowerment era. I don’t think that kind of thing is beyond reasonable anymore. I promise you Rich would have said as much (whether true or not) if Sixers hadn’t stepped up.

I stand by my point with Fultz. Maybe you’re going to do it regardless but there’s value in actually making him earn it. He hasn’t had to earn anything in the NBA to this point. There are questions about his work ethic and mental state, media driven or not. Why not put him under a little pressure and see how he responds? If he can’t handle that then what are actual NBA games going to do to him??

Yeah I've heard that he works very hard and is a gym rat. Where did you hear that he didn't?

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[basketballRob]

Theory is a pretty awful word choice imo.

I don't think it's insane to be skeptical but frankly it makes no sense that a doctor didn't come up with it, even if it's wrong. TOS is both broad and obscure and there's no sure way to fix it from what I've seen. Given the numbers of people I've own over the years who've had medical issues that took years to diagnose and who dealt with countless bad ones...this doesn't seem all that implausible.

His jumper looks to me like something I'd see if someone randomly has shooting pains when he shoots but it doesn't happy consistently enough where he can just brace for it. Now I'm no doctor, no expert, and that's completely based on myself having had some pain issues where randomly I'd have shooting pain in my back where I'd fall straight to the floor and how when standing up I never knew if I'd have them again or if I'd be fine.

What's wrong with me saying it's my theory? None of us know exactly what's going on, in no small part because he's kept things so vague. This is all just our theories. Anyway, what word would you like me to use when there's no actual evidence besides his agent (who has screwed up medical terms before) that he was diagnosed? The team went out of their way to not say he was diagnosed. Should I say TOS "was identified" the way the team did?

What does "come up with it" mean? He went and saw like 10 doctors, I imagine at least one of them probably said "I can't say what it is with certainty, but here are some possibilities" and among others he mentioned TOS, Brothers decided TOS sounded good and he ran with it.

Again, the fact that it's hard to diagnose doesn't mean that when someone says it's a possibility that that's what it is. In fact it's the exact opposite. For all we know he could have a completely different diagnosis in 6 months.

Theory should be used when you'd go just short of betting your life on it being true. If you haven't tested it, built it on another tested theory, etc..you should refrain from bastardizing a scientific term that has insanely high thresholds to use. Perhaps just a pet peeve of mine but given we're discussing an actual medical condition and it falls into the realm of science, perhaps just use the more accurate term hypothesis? Would really bother me if it was used in a much more conversational type topic (I have a theory that the magic didn't game plan for player xyz due to leaving him open in the corner where he shoots at an above league average rate).

It isn't insane to think a doctor "narrowed it down" and they went with one they liked I suppose. It's also just as likely he got different diagnosis if not more likely and yeah he took the one that made the most sense. The most likely scenario is the there were multiple doctors who agreed to it or agreed it was a reasonable conclusion. While Fultz's camp seems about as opaque as any player's camp ever, I question how far the 76ers and now magic would be willing to go if they weren't allowed to speak to the doctors and verify some of this. Just because you get an outside doctor doesn't mean you don't have your doctors talk to their doctors. I can't see some of these coaches and others people in these organizations not leaking something if this weren't at least pretty darn reasonable...hell everything leaks in the nba. If there was something seriously screwy wouldn't a leak seem pretty likely?

Players find independent doctors all the time. The Spurs said Kawhi was okay and he said he wasn't. I remember Penny when he got traded traded to the Suns said he was having leg pains and the Suns doctors couldn't find anything. He has microscopic stress fractures and was never the same.

Who were the doctors that diagnosed them? Unless a player divulges the information we'll never know, because the doctor isn't legally allowed to disclose medical information about a patient.

If KD got a second opinion last year and sat out the playoffs , could you imagine what the blowback from fans would be?

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[dhsilv2]

What's wrong with me saying it's my theory? None of us know exactly what's going on, in no small part because he's kept things so vague. This is all just our theories. Anyway, what word would you like me to use when there's no actual evidence besides his agent (who has screwed up medical terms before) that he was diagnosed? The team went out of their way to not say he was diagnosed. Should I say TOS "was identified" the way the team did?

What does "come up with it" mean? He went and saw like 10 doctors, I imagine at least one of them probably said "I can't say what it is with certainty, but here are some possibilities" and among others he mentioned TOS, Brothers decided TOS sounded good and he ran with it.

Again, the fact that it's hard to diagnose doesn't mean that when someone says it's a possibility that that's what it is. In fact it's the exact opposite. For all we know he could have a completely different diagnosis in 6 months.

Theory should be used when you'd go just short of betting your life on it being true. If you haven't tested it, built it on another tested theory, etc..you should refrain from bastardizing a scientific term that has insanely high thresholds to use. Perhaps just a pet peeve of mine but given we're discussing an actual medical condition and it falls into the realm of science, perhaps just use the more accurate term hypothesis? Would really bother me if it was used in a much more conversational type topic (I have a theory that the magic didn't game plan for player xyz due to leaving him open in the corner where he shoots at an above league average rate).

It isn't insane to think a doctor "narrowed it down" and they went with one they liked I suppose. It's also just as likely he got different diagnosis if not more likely and yeah he took the one that made the most sense. The most likely scenario is the there were multiple doctors who agreed to it or agreed it was a reasonable conclusion. While Fultz's camp seems about as opaque as any player's camp ever, I question how far the 76ers and now magic would be willing to go if they weren't allowed to speak to the doctors and verify some of this. Just because you get an outside doctor doesn't mean you don't have your doctors talk to their doctors. I can't see some of these coaches and others people in these organizations not leaking something if this weren't at least pretty darn reasonable...hell everything leaks in the nba. If there was something seriously screwy wouldn't a leak seem pretty likely?

Well obviously I am not a scientist and I didn't mean it in that way. Fine with saying hypothesis instead.

Leak of what? The team he plays for didn't say he was diagnosed with anything. They said it "was identified" or whatever and then basically wiped their hands with the situation. I don't understand what a leak would entail.

It's such a weird situation that it's difficult to even discuss.

Agree and I think you've made the point I mostly want with fultz. It's WEIRD but given how weird it is...I hate the negative opinions. I get there being negativity but we're in toxic as hell realms here! As for leaks, if there weren't doctors saying this, you really think nobody would leak this to the press (mouth breathers on espn)?

[dhsilv2]

What's wrong with me saying it's my theory? None of us know exactly what's going on, in no small part because he's kept things so vague. This is all just our theories. Anyway, what word would you like me to use when there's no actual evidence besides his agent (who has screwed up medical terms before) that he was diagnosed? The team went out of their way to not say he was diagnosed. Should I say TOS "was identified" the way the team did?

What does "come up with it" mean? He went and saw like 10 doctors, I imagine at least one of them probably said "I can't say what it is with certainty, but here are some possibilities" and among others he mentioned TOS, Brothers decided TOS sounded good and he ran with it.

Again, the fact that it's hard to diagnose doesn't mean that when someone says it's a possibility that that's what it is. In fact it's the exact opposite. For all we know he could have a completely different diagnosis in 6 months.

Theory should be used when you'd go just short of betting your life on it being true. If you haven't tested it, built it on another tested theory, etc..you should refrain from bastardizing a scientific term that has insanely high thresholds to use. Perhaps just a pet peeve of mine but given we're discussing an actual medical condition and it falls into the realm of science, perhaps just use the more accurate term hypothesis? Would really bother me if it was used in a much more conversational type topic (I have a theory that the magic didn't game plan for player xyz due to leaving him open in the corner where he shoots at an above league average rate).

It isn't insane to think a doctor "narrowed it down" and they went with one they liked I suppose. It's also just as likely he got different diagnosis if not more likely and yeah he took the one that made the most sense. The most likely scenario is the there were multiple doctors who agreed to it or agreed it was a reasonable conclusion. While Fultz's camp seems about as opaque as any player's camp ever, I question how far the 76ers and now magic would be willing to go if they weren't allowed to speak to the doctors and verify some of this. Just because you get an outside doctor doesn't mean you don't have your doctors talk to their doctors. I can't see some of these coaches and others people in these organizations not leaking something if this weren't at least pretty darn reasonable...hell everything leaks in the nba. If there was something seriously screwy wouldn't a leak seem pretty likely?

Players find independent doctors all the time. The Spurs said Kawhi was okay and he said he wasn't. I remember Penny when he got traded traded to the Suns said he was having leg pains and the Suns doctors couldn't find anything. He has microscopic stress fractures and was never the same.

Who were the doctors that diagnosed them? Unless a player divulges the information we'll never know, because the doctor isn't legally allowed to disclose medical information about a patient.

If KD got a second opinion last year and sat out the playoffs , could you imagine what the blowback from fans would be?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I'm not sure your point here. So as I'd rather be diplomatic can you tie it together?

[VDT]

Embiid didn't play a single game his first 2 years. We've actually seen fultz on an nba court. I don't recall anyone saying Embiid was going to miss 2 seasons when he was drafted, it was seen as a 1 year injury. Mean while fans were calling him a bust, saying he'd never stay healthy, blah blah blah.

Fultz has had issues and I guess fans are upset he doesn't spam us on twitter with updates on his issue?

So far we've seen a guy with elite athletic ability. He's got huge defensive upside, looks like he can be an actual impact defensive point guard. Excellent handles, very good passer, and already a killer in transition. Youngest guy to ever have a triple double to add to that. No, he's not been good overall but it isn't like we haven't seen a hell of a lot of potential in those moments he'd been on the floor.

I don't see the guy as a future superstar at this point but if he can find that jumper he had...he's going to be a good nba player for years to come. Why would anyone not be rooting for him to get there? Again...because he doesn't spam us with twitter posts about his rehab progress? Because we're annoyed doctors couldn't figure out his issue right away? Because *gasp* there might be something mental and requires help?

I mean do you think this guy worked his butt off for all those years to make the NBA and now just wants to collect a pay check and never compete at the NBA level? Why?

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

I saw him play last year and I would say he's a pretty elite athlete and is certainly a killer in transition. Without his jumpshot and whilst doing all the weird free throw stuff, he actually was playing pretty well. Nobody actually cares to notice that or give it credit. 8.2ppg on 42% shooting 3.7 rebounds and 3.1 assists. Put someone like that on the Raptors or Knicks for a season and we'd be hearing about the next big thing, not about a kid who fooled his way into the league. And that's whilst in the midst of these huge problems. Hate him all you want but he has huge potential.

If he were an elite athlete he would still be playing for the Sixers. He still had a pull up mid range jumper and he had decent court vision. You dont lose your job to TJ or tail to bring any value in a trade if you are all of the above.

The truth is, as i said, that Fultz is not an explosive athlete, which is part of the reason he was often getting blocked at the rim, and cannot create separation from the defender by himself. His size is an advantage as a pg but his not particularly arhletic for his size or for a pg. If he were to have any success in the NBA it would be through skill and craftiness, not through athleticism. Which is the reason why his shooting issues are such a problem. It is almost impossible to be even a starting pg when you are neither very athletic nor a good shooter.

[dhsilv2]

Fultz is not an elite athlete nor has he elite handles and he is definitely not a killer in transition. I have heard these things before and i have no idea how anyone that has seen him play would reach such conclusions. If Fultz were an elite athlete with excellent handles he would be able to play even without a 3point shoot. It is precisely because he is neither of these that he is unplayable in his current state.

Moreover dont compare Embiid with Fultz. Embiid had a real injury and was a much better prospect in college. I am not even sure Fultz has a real injury, he literally stopped playing after he got his option picked up and was moved to the bench. He spent the whole summer last year shooting 3s supposedly without any issues and as soon as he secured one more year of money and was moved to the bench he suddenly was injured again.

I hope he overcomes whatever issues he has but lets not kid ourselves that this is a typical injury. He will be paid for the full 4 years of his rookie contract and to this day he has played back up minutes in 33 games and even in those he hasnt shown much. He is literally being paid based on his perceived potential, because he hasnt shown anything on the NBA court yet.

I saw him play last year and I would say he's a pretty elite athlete and is certainly a killer in transition. Without his jumpshot and whilst doing all the weird free throw stuff, he actually was playing pretty well. Nobody actually cares to notice that or give it credit. 8.2ppg on 42% shooting 3.7 rebounds and 3.1 assists. Put someone like that on the Raptors or Knicks for a season and we'd be hearing about the next big thing, not about a kid who fooled his way into the league. And that's whilst in the midst of these huge problems. Hate him all you want but he has huge potential.

If he were an elite athlete he would still be playing for the Sixers. He still had a pull up mid range jumper and he had decent court vision. You dont lose your job to TJ or tail to bring any value in a trade if you are all of the above.

The truth is, as i said, that Fultz is not an explosive athlete, which is part of the reason he was often getting blocked at the rim, and cannot create separation from the defender by himself. His size is an advantage as a pg but his not particularly arhletic for his size or for a pg. If he were to have any success in the NBA it would be through skill and craftiness, not through athleticism. Which is the reason why his shooting issues are such a problem. It is almost impossible to be even a starting pg when you are neither very athletic nor a good shooter.

As was covered his greatest athletic trait (the one that makes Harden one of the greatest players of all time) was his deceleration. Explosive game is not the only area of athletics.

And no, being the greatest freak athlete in the world is not enough to be a starter in the NBA. As for 'still be playing', he sat because he didn't feel he was healthy enough to play. He's not sitting out because teams don't think he can play in the NBA. He showed more than enough to prove he can play in the nba without a jumper.

[VDT]

I saw him play last year and I would say he's a pretty elite athlete and is certainly a killer in transition. Without his jumpshot and whilst doing all the weird free throw stuff, he actually was playing pretty well. Nobody actually cares to notice that or give it credit. 8.2ppg on 42% shooting 3.7 rebounds and 3.1 assists. Put someone like that on the Raptors or Knicks for a season and we'd be hearing about the next big thing, not about a kid who fooled his way into the league. And that's whilst in the midst of these huge problems. Hate him all you want but he has huge potential.

If he were an elite athlete he would still be playing for the Sixers. He still had a pull up mid range jumper and he had decent court vision. You dont lose your job to TJ or tail to bring any value in a trade if you are all of the above.

The truth is, as i said, that Fultz is not an explosive athlete, which is part of the reason he was often getting blocked at the rim, and cannot create separation from the defender by himself. His size is an advantage as a pg but his not particularly arhletic for his size or for a pg. If he were to have any success in the NBA it would be through skill and craftiness, not through athleticism. Which is the reason why his shooting issues are such a problem. It is almost impossible to be even a starting pg when you are neither very athletic nor a good shooter.

As was covered his greatest athletic trait (the one that makes Harden one of the greatest players of all time) was his deceleration. Explosive game is not the only area of athletics.

And no, being the greatest freak athlete in the world is not enough to be a starter in the NBA. As for 'still be playing', he sat because he didn't feel he was healthy enough to play. He's not sitting out because teams don't think he can play in the NBA. He showed more than enough to prove he can play in the nba without a jumper.

Even if he indeed had a good deceleration ( and i have no idea where you got that) it would nt make him an elite athlete. Harden is also not an elite athlete, although he is probably underrated in that regard.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

Again if Fultz was all that good and physically gifted as people think he would still have a place in the team at least over TJ who is neither athletic nor a shooter. At the very least he would have some value in a trade.

[michaelm]

Yes it is it falls right under the banner of doctor patient anonymity.

That is absolutely part of doctor patient confidentiality,unless the patient deems otherwise. You are absolutely not allowed to say you are treating someone particularly generally to the media, and I would regard it as unprofessional if his doctor had even asked Fultz whether he could put anything out there.

Are you guys living in some sort of bizarro world where we don't get medical information about players all the time? There are daily injury reports, you have sideline reporters on television giving live updates about injuries, there are dozens of examples.

There's a clause in every player's contract that allows teams to disclose basic medical information. Which is why you regularly see in team press releases that player X is going to see doctor Y or doctor Z is treating player A for malady B.

You could try reading the posts you dispute. I said in an early post on this thread if the doctor who made the diagnosis is affiliated with neither the NBA nor the Sixers none of this applies to the doctor involved.

I don’t know much about laws in the USA or standards of medical professional conduct there but I would be surprised if signing an NBA contract abrogates an NBA player’s right to a confidential medical opinion from a doctor of his own choice in regard to his own health/injury issues. Of course a player’s team can take exception to this which may have been part of what eventuated.

[michaelm]

If he were an elite athlete he would still be playing for the Sixers. He still had a pull up mid range jumper and he had decent court vision. You dont lose your job to TJ or tail to bring any value in a trade if you are all of the above.

The truth is, as i said, that Fultz is not an explosive athlete, which is part of the reason he was often getting blocked at the rim, and cannot create separation from the defender by himself. His size is an advantage as a pg but his not particularly arhletic for his size or for a pg. If he were to have any success in the NBA it would be through skill and craftiness, not through athleticism. Which is the reason why his shooting issues are such a problem. It is almost impossible to be even a starting pg when you are neither very athletic nor a good shooter.

As was covered his greatest athletic trait (the one that makes Harden one of the greatest players of all time) was his deceleration. Explosive game is not the only area of athletics.

And no, being the greatest freak athlete in the world is not enough to be a starter in the NBA. As for 'still be playing', he sat because he didn't feel he was healthy enough to play. He's not sitting out because teams don't think he can play in the NBA. He showed more than enough to prove he can play in the nba without a jumper.

Even if he indeed had a good deceleration ( and i have no idea where you got that) it would nt make him an elite athlete. Harden is also not an elite athlete, although he is probably underrated in that regard.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

Again if Fultz was all that good and physically gifted as people think he would still have a place in the team at least over TJ who is neither athletic nor a shooter. At the very least he would have some value in a trade.

Not on a team with another non shooting starting guard.The issue is whether Simmons is > Fultz, not whether TJ is > Fultz.

[Eyeamok]

That is absolutely part of doctor patient confidentiality,unless the patient deems otherwise. You are absolutely not allowed to say you are treating someone particularly generally to the media, and I would regard it as unprofessional if his doctor had even asked Fultz whether he could put anything out there.

Are you guys living in some sort of bizarro world where we don't get medical information about players all the time? There are daily injury reports, you have sideline reporters on television giving live updates about injuries, there are dozens of examples.

There's a clause in every player's contract that allows teams to disclose basic medical information. Which is why you regularly see in team press releases that player X is going to see doctor Y or doctor Z is treating player A for malady B.

You could try reading the posts you dispute. I said in an early post on this thread if the doctor who made the diagnosis is affiliated with neither the NBA nor the Sixers none of this applies to the doctor involved.

I don’t know much about laws in the USA or standards of medical professional conduct there but I would be surprised if signing an NBA contract abrogates an NBA player’s right to a confidential medical opinion from a doctor of his own choice in regard to his own health/injury issues. Of course a player’s team can take exception to this which may have been part of what eventuated.

If you like your Fultz excuses guess what you get to keep your Fultz excuses!

All this speculation/talk about doctor patient confidentiality and doctor(s) not wanting to be identified is just hogwash. But carry on. i guess this is what the off season is about.

[michaelm]

Are you guys living in some sort of bizarro world where we don't get medical information about players all the time? There are daily injury reports, you have sideline reporters on television giving live updates about injuries, there are dozens of examples.

There's a clause in every player's contract that allows teams to disclose basic medical information. Which is why you regularly see in team press releases that player X is going to see doctor Y or doctor Z is treating player A for malady B.

You could try reading the posts you dispute. I said in an early post on this thread if the doctor who made the diagnosis is affiliated with neither the NBA nor the Sixers none of this applies to the doctor involved.

I don’t know much about laws in the USA or standards of medical professional conduct there but I would be surprised if signing an NBA contract abrogates an NBA player’s right to a confidential medical opinion from a doctor of his own choice in regard to his own health/injury issues. Of course a player’s team can take exception to this which may have been part of what eventuated.

If you like your Fultz excuses guess what you get to keep your Fultz excuses!

All this speculation/talk about doctor patient confidentiality and doctor(s) not wanting to be identified is just hogwash. But carry on. i guess this is what the off season is about.

Why exactly is it hogwash ?.

What is hogwash imo is the again imo fairly obsessive need to make a final judgement now on a guy who is barely out of his teens. As I have said I can cite a closely parallel situation where majority opinion was even more strongly that a competitor’s issues were psychological. All of them were wrong.

[dhsilv2]

If he were an elite athlete he would still be playing for the Sixers. He still had a pull up mid range jumper and he had decent court vision. You dont lose your job to TJ or tail to bring any value in a trade if you are all of the above.

The truth is, as i said, that Fultz is not an explosive athlete, which is part of the reason he was often getting blocked at the rim, and cannot create separation from the defender by himself. His size is an advantage as a pg but his not particularly arhletic for his size or for a pg. If he were to have any success in the NBA it would be through skill and craftiness, not through athleticism. Which is the reason why his shooting issues are such a problem. It is almost impossible to be even a starting pg when you are neither very athletic nor a good shooter.

As was covered his greatest athletic trait (the one that makes Harden one of the greatest players of all time) was his deceleration. Explosive game is not the only area of athletics.

And no, being the greatest freak athlete in the world is not enough to be a starter in the NBA. As for 'still be playing', he sat because he didn't feel he was healthy enough to play. He's not sitting out because teams don't think he can play in the NBA. He showed more than enough to prove he can play in the nba without a jumper.

Even if he indeed had a good deceleration ( and i have no idea where you got that) it would nt make him an elite athlete. Harden is also not an elite athlete, although he is probably underrated in that regard.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

Again if Fultz was all that good and physically gifted as people think he would still have a place in the team at least over TJ who is neither athletic nor a shooter. At the very least he would have some value in a trade.

Now James freaking Harden isn't an elite athlete? Dude STOP! Harden is all time elite level in terms of strength and might possibly be the fastest player in history at deceleration.

[Eyeamok]

You could try reading the posts you dispute. I said in an early post on this thread if the doctor who made the diagnosis is affiliated with neither the NBA nor the Sixers none of this applies to the doctor involved.

I don’t know much about laws in the USA or standards of medical professional conduct there but I would be surprised if signing an NBA contract abrogates an NBA player’s right to a confidential medical opinion from a doctor of his own choice in regard to his own health/injury issues. Of course a player’s team can take exception to this which may have been part of what eventuated.

If you like your Fultz excuses guess what you get to keep your Fultz excuses!

All this speculation/talk about doctor patient confidentiality and doctor(s) not wanting to be identified is just hogwash. But carry on. i guess this is what the off season is about.

Why exactly is it hogwash ?.

What is hogwash imo is the again imo fairly obsessive need to make a final judgement now on a guy who is barely out of his teens. As I have said I can cite a closely parallel situation where majority opinion was even more strongly that a competitor’s issues were psychological. All of them were wrong.

Like I said if you want your excuses you get to keep your excuses....have a nice day mi amigo.

[EAS Law]

What I find incredible is the vitriolic mockery and insistence that anyone that supports or believes in Markelle Fultz is an idiot because they have no medical grounds upon which to base their thoughts, however, the same rabid detractors have zero medical education and zero evidence to support their position either. It’s really great especially when you combine the clear and evident “I hope he never works out” bias from Sixers fans that seems to cause them to viciously attack both Fultz and anyone who dares to say he has a chance to meet his potential.

Shoot, now we’re arguing that he “fooled” every NBA scout and prospect reporting site and that he isn’t even an NBA level athlete. Seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

[VDT]

As was covered his greatest athletic trait (the one that makes Harden one of the greatest players of all time) was his deceleration. Explosive game is not the only area of athletics.

And no, being the greatest freak athlete in the world is not enough to be a starter in the NBA. As for 'still be playing', he sat because he didn't feel he was healthy enough to play. He's not sitting out because teams don't think he can play in the NBA. He showed more than enough to prove he can play in the nba without a jumper.

Even if he indeed had a good deceleration ( and i have no idea where you got that) it would nt make him an elite athlete. Harden is also not an elite athlete, although he is probably underrated in that regard.

Also Fultz stopped playing ( or rather his manager didnt allow him to play) because he was moved to the bench and in the end lost his back up pg job to TJ. Only at that point and to save face he discovered that he was injured to the surprise of everyone in the team.

Again if Fultz was all that good and physically gifted as people think he would still have a place in the team at least over TJ who is neither athletic nor a shooter. At the very least he would have some value in a trade.

Not next to another non shooting guard. The issue is whether Simmons + TJ is better than Fultz +TJ, not whether TJ is > Fultz. Simmons next to a shotless Fultz is horrible.

Tj doesnt shoot 3s either and cant play with SImmons. What i am saying is that if Fultz was as good as people are saying he would at least be the back up pg. If you are an elite athlete, have excellent handles, have good court vision have a pull up jumper and are a terror in transition you dont lose your job to TJ.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Sure are lots of know it all knobs in this thread. I had absolutely no idea we had so many surgeons, doctors and what I can only deem as professors all of which are certified experts on thoracic nerve issues. We should consider hosting a symposium or something so that others in this field may learn a thing or two from the real experts.

[rzzzzz]

We have seen career bench guys and guys who were borderline nba players average 20+ in summer league

i think Brown and Tatum are a little better than borderline. and the contest between them and Fultz was pretty damn exciting. (one of them stuffed Fultz at the rim to end the game, if i recall correctly.) obviously prejudiced, but at the time i thought it the beginning of a great rivalry.

[SF_Warriors]

We have seen career bench guys and guys who were borderline nba players average 20+ in summer league

i think Brown and Tatum are a little better than borderline. and the contest between them and Fultz was pretty damn exciting. (one of them stuffed Fultz at the rim to end the game, if i recall correctly.) obviously prejudiced, but at the time i thought it the beginning of a great rivalry.

Not talking about brown and tatum..obviously there have been great nba players performing well in summer league too.If you want an example, anthony morrow and anthony randolph both averaged over 20ppg in the same year in sumer league for the warriors..

[Duke4life831]

Only a couple weeks till preseason. We will see how he looks then.

[Dan Z]

When was it a law that you have to be a doctor in order to have an option on an injured player (on a message board)?

Do you also have to be a paid GM of an NBA team to discuss trade possibilities?