Is healthy Zion a better talent than healthy Embiid?

[limbo]

Must've missed the part where the tittle said "BETTER TALENT." Reading comprehension, very hard

Talent doesn't mean anything objective...

I can say Payton Pritchard is a BETTER TALENT than Zion, because he is a much better shooter, superior vision/passing and a better handle, and probably also is a better defender...

Zion is an outlier athlete... That's the only TALENT he is better than 99% of the league... Everything else he is not talented at all relative to the league. Compared to the average NBA player, Zion is LESS TALENTED in terms of defensive skillset, LESS TALENTED in terms of a passer, LESS TALENTED in terms of being able to create off the dribbles, and EXCEPTIONALLY LESS TALENTED in terms of shooting the basketball outside the paint...

Even if we adjust those areas per position, because Guards are usually going to be more dominant in those skilled-based areas, Zion still doesn't stand out among the average NBA Forward... While Embiid is much better/skilled offensively AND defensively than then the average NBA Center...

[Smirk]

What is this thread, lol?

Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player...

Embiid didn’t even play his first two years in the league. If you take Embiid’s first 40 games and Zion’s, Zion’s is significantly better with comparable rebound and assist numbers.

So...huh?

No he isn't...

Embiid was an elite defensive player from the moment he stepped on the court, and once he got healthy with some semblance of talent around him, and he finally played at least 60 RS games, he finished 4th in RAPM in his sophmore year in 2018...

You're trying to fit the sample to your narrative. That's why you're adding all these qualifiers like ''Embiid missed his first two years'', ''if you look at 30 games of sample size, Zion is better...''

Zion simply doesn't have Embiid's impact on the scoring margin because he's an astronomically worse defender... Even offensively, the only thing he really does better than Embiid is finish around the rim. And this is alarming because Embiid is far from a great passer or shooter, yet he offers valuable spacing at the Center position and is a better overall creator because of his ability to play in the post or outside and attack the rim and draw FT's...

But anyway, you have moved the discussion from healthy Zion vs. healthy Embiid currently into first 40 games of each player's career for some reason

I don’t even know what to say to this.

Yes. Because Zion has played 40 games. Embiid has been in the league for 7 years.

Zion has a better comparable opponent efg than Lebron, Giannis and Jrue Holiday at similar points.

You people are totally insane with your Zion hot takes.

[76ciology]

Embiid.

Embiid anchors the Sixers offense and the Sixers defense.

[limbo]

Yes. Because Zion has played 40 games. Embiid has been in the league for 7 years.

Zion has a better comparable opponent efg than Lebron, Giannis and Jrue Holiday at similar points.

You people are totally insane with your Zion hot takes.

Nobody cares how many years anyone has been in the league...

Right now Zion is not more talented then Embiid, even if we account of 'health' (whatever that means in Zion's case now... probably one less bag of Fritos per day).

Nobody is saying Zion can't improve as a basketball player, but that's not the question... The question is ''is he a better talent than Embiid when healthy''... and right now he isn't, because outside of finishing at the rim, he doesn't do anything better than Embiid... He's not a better overall scorer (volume+efficiency), he's not a better passer, he's not even that much better at handling the ball... he's way less talented in terms of defensive skillets and shooting the ball...

Before Zion played a single minute of NBA action, i said he needed to reconstruct himself as a basketball player... Both physically and skill-wise...

Here we are, almost a 1.5 years later... Zion still needs to reconstruct himself as a basketball player...

BUT MUHHH 59% 2P ZION GOESS SUHHMASHH!!

Great. Enjoy the lottery.

[SirChurros]

Gee, a 7'2" center is more impactful on defense. Hard-hitting stuff.

Zion is the better passer too, by the way. If the Pelicans ever start funneling the offense through him more, you're going to find out just how good Zion is. Right now he's not being put in the position to much aside from score. But if you look at his game from the other night against the Bucks, you got a glimpse of how he should be used and how good he can be.

[limbo]

Gee, a 7'2" center is more impactful on defense. Hard-hitting stuff.

Zion is the better passer too, by the way. If the Pelicans ever start funneling the offense through him more, you're going to find out just how good Zion is. Right now he's not being put in the position to much aside from score. But if you look at his game from the other night against the Bucks, you got a glimpse of how he should be used and how good he can be.

Zion can't even pass a physical exam... let alone a basketball...

They can't play through him because he has no on-ball skills except barreling inside, and even that is severely limited by his pedestrian handles and the fact that defenses can effectively pack the paint against him because he can't shoot...

Embiid is not even a good passer, it's probably the weakest part of his game, yet Zion still doesn't separate himself from Embiid in that area. You could argue Embiid's presence leads to more 'shot-creation' and scoring opportunities for his team through his low post presence, FT draw rate, ability to space the floor and be a bigger threat as a screener and bring opposing rim protectors out of the paint.

[SirChurros]

Gee, a 7'2" center is more impactful on defense. Hard-hitting stuff.

Zion is the better passer too, by the way. If the Pelicans ever start funneling the offense through him more, you're going to find out just how good Zion is. Right now he's not being put in the position to much aside from score. But if you look at his game from the other night against the Bucks, you got a glimpse of how he should be used and how good he can be.

Zion can't even pass a physical exam... let alone a basketball...

They can't play through him because he has no on-ball skills except barreling inside, and even that is severely limited by his pedestrian handles and the fact that defenses can effectively pack the paint against him because he can't shoot...

Embiid is not even a good passer, it's probably the weakest part of his game, yet Zion still doesn't separate himself from Embiid in that area. You could argue Embiid's presence leads to more 'shot-creation' and scoring opportunities for his team through his low post presence, FT draw rate, ability to space the floor and be a bigger threat as a screener and bring opposing rim protectors out of the paint.

Yeah, I mean this post is just flat-out ridiculous. He's very good at finding open guys when teams collapse on him or when he attacks. Passing is one of the underrated parts of his game.

Watch on YouTube

Then there's also this:

Watch on YouTube

[Alonzo_Morning]

Gee, a 7'2" center is more impactful on defense. Hard-hitting stuff.

Zion is the better passer too, by the way. If the Pelicans ever start funneling the offense through him more, you're going to find out just how good Zion is. Right now he's not being put in the position to much aside from score. But if you look at his game from the other night against the Bucks, you got a glimpse of how he should be used and how good he can be.

Zion can't even pass a physical exam... let alone a basketball...

They can't play through him because he has no on-ball skills except barreling inside, and even that is severely limited by his pedestrian handles and the fact that defenses can effectively pack the paint against him because he can't shoot...

Zion is an all time 37% 3pt shooter so

[Indomitable]

Embiid’s obviously the better player right now, but if you’re asking who has more potential, who’s the better asset, who you’d rather have for the next 6 years I’m taking Zion for sure. What he’s doing as a rookie matches up with the best rookies ever at 21, 22, 23 years old and he’s only 19. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone but Giannis or Doncic.

He's played 9 games. What exactly is he doing?

I just looked at Embiid's rookie year per 36 and almost every single statistical category favors Embiid.

Zion is 20 not 19

[Alonzo_Morning]

Embiid’s obviously the better player right now, but if you’re asking who has more potential, who’s the better asset, who you’d rather have for the next 6 years I’m taking Zion for sure. What he’s doing as a rookie matches up with the best rookies ever at 21, 22, 23 years old and he’s only 19. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone but Giannis or Doncic.

He's played 9 games. What exactly is he doing?

I just looked at Embiid's rookie year per 36 and almost every single statistical category favors Embiid.

Zion is 20 not 19

[Harry Garris]

Give me embiid as size and elite defense over any offensive potential difference in Zion’s favour.

Zion's defensive potential is elite without a doubt.

I guess but it's unrealized potential. Right now, Zion sucks on defense. Embiid is already an elite defender.

[limbo]

You really just posted a 3 min video of Zion making simple outlet passes and basic drive and kick plays to open players as proof he is a better passer than Embiid?

I can post video clips of Embiid's assist that are far more ridiculous than any Zion ones, like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

AND I STILL WOULDN'T CALL EMBIID A GOOD PASSER...

And Embiid makes far more positive passes just because he gets doubled a lot more in the post than Zion does on any place of the floor, which enables easy inside-out passes from Embiid which result in the ball swinging to an open 3pt shot or drive.

[SirChurros]

You really just posted a 3 min video of Zion making simple outlet passes and basic drive and kick plays to open players as proof he is a better passer than Embiid?

I can post video clips of Embiid's assist that are far more ridiculous than any Zion ones, like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

AND I STILL WOULDN'T CALL EMBIID A GOOD PASSER...

And Embiid makes far more positive passes just because he gets doubled a lot more in the post than Zion does on any place of the floor, which enables easy inside-out passes from Embiid which result in the ball swinging to an open 3pt shot or drive.

[Funcrusher]

Must've missed the part where the tittle said "BETTER TALENT." Reading comprehension, very hard

Talent doesn't mean anything objective...

I can say Payton Pritchard is a BETTER TALENT than Zion, because he is a much better shooter, superior vision/passing and a better handle, and probably also is a better defender...

Zion is an outlier athlete... That's the only TALENT he is better than 99% of the league... Everything else he is not talented at all relative to the league. Compared to the average NBA player, Zion is LESS TALENTED in terms of defensive skillset, LESS TALENTED in terms of a passer, LESS TALENTED in terms of being able to create off the dribbles, and EXCEPTIONALLY LESS TALENTED in terms of shooting the basketball outside the paint...

Even if we adjust those areas per position, because Guards are usually going to be more dominant in those skilled-based areas, Zion still doesn't stand out among the average NBA Forward... While Embiid is much better/skilled offensively AND defensively than then the average NBA Center...

Less talented as a passer, and off the dribble? C'mon man, you don't even know what you're talking about, clearly.

[Funcrusher]

You really just posted a 3 min video of Zion making simple outlet passes and basic drive and kick plays to open players as proof he is a better passer than Embiid?

I can post video clips of Embiid's assist that are far more ridiculous than any Zion ones, like this:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

AND I STILL WOULDN'T CALL EMBIID A GOOD PASSER...

And Embiid makes far more positive passes just because he gets doubled a lot more in the post than Zion does on any place of the floor, which enables easy inside-out passes from Embiid which result in the ball swinging to an open 3pt shot or drive.

lmao, Zion gets doubled in the post a ton, I don't know what you're talking about

And are we really going to judge the quality of a passer based on how cool his assists are? Really? Like, Lamelo is a more creative passer than LeBron, does that make him better? Obviously not, because LeBron at this stage has a far more expansive skillset as a passer than LaMelo. I wouldn't say Zion is a better passer than Embiid rn (though I certainly think it's at least close) but this claim that he's not talented in that respect is absolutely absurd. He's extremely willing and quick to pass out of help/double teams, can pass out of the post, can make live dribble passes off of penetration... he's a skilled passer, PERIOD. And with the amount of attention he draws defensively he doesn't need to have magic level vision to be an effective playmaker.

[Smirk]

Nobody cares how many years anyone has been in the league...

Well, that’s pretty dumb.

[Funcrusher]

Gee, a 7'2" center is more impactful on defense. Hard-hitting stuff.

Zion is the better passer too, by the way. If the Pelicans ever start funneling the offense through him more, you're going to find out just how good Zion is. Right now he's not being put in the position to much aside from score. But if you look at his game from the other night against the Bucks, you got a glimpse of how he should be used and how good he can be.

Zion can't even pass a physical exam... let alone a basketball...

They can't play through him because he has no on-ball skills except barreling inside, and even that is severely limited by his pedestrian handles and the fact that defenses can effectively pack the paint against him because he can't shoot...

Embiid is not even a good passer, it's probably the weakest part of his game, yet Zion still doesn't separate himself from Embiid in that area. You could argue Embiid's presence leads to more 'shot-creation' and scoring opportunities for his team through his low post presence, FT draw rate, ability to space the floor and be a bigger threat as a screener and bring opposing rim protectors out of the paint.

Must be why he's in the 80th percentile in ISO's this year...

[Funcrusher]

Yes. Because Zion has played 40 games. Embiid has been in the league for 7 years.

Zion has a better comparable opponent efg than Lebron, Giannis and Jrue Holiday at similar points.

You people are totally insane with your Zion hot takes.

Nobody cares how many years anyone has been in the league...

Right now Zion is not more talented then Embiid, even if we account of 'health' (whatever that means in Zion's case now... probably one less bag of Fritos per day).

Nobody is saying Zion can't improve as a basketball player, but that's not the question... The question is ''is he a better talent than Embiid when healthy''... and right now he isn't, because outside of finishing at the rim, he doesn't do anything better than Embiid... He's not a better overall scorer (volume+efficiency), he's not a better passer, he's not even that much better at handling the ball... he's way less talented in terms of defensive skillets and shooting the ball...

Before Zion played a single minute of NBA action, i said he needed to reconstruct himself as a basketball player... Both physically and skill-wise...

Here we are, almost a 1.5 years later... Zion still needs to reconstruct himself as a basketball player...

BUT MUHHH 59% 2P ZION GOESS SUHHMASHH!!

Great. Enjoy the lottery.

[limbo]

Zion is a fraud.

People were salivating all over him last year, i said Morant and the Grizz will be better next season easily and here we are...

Don't even talk to me about Zion until the dude doesn't look like he built like a jar of pickles and learns how to play basketball...

[Smirk]

Zion is a fraud.

People were salivating all over him last year, i said Morant and the Grizz will be better next season easily and here we are...

Don't even talk to me about Zion until the dude doesn't look like he built like a jar of pickles and learns how to play basketball...

Reading your posts it’s pretty clear you don’t have any clue whatsoever what you’re talking about. You haven’t watched him play much.

Sweet hot takes but you are very very very clueless. Good luck to you.