NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[NyKnicks1714]

I imagine if you would’ve gone to the Health Ministry’s social media or website instead of just a random anti Vaxxers Twitter clip you could’ve gotten the correction and the context

As stated previously - now I know I have to fact check even a health minister's own press conferences to make sure there wasn't a data entry error.

Critical thinking. If something is a massive outlier, maybe apply some critical thinking?

For sure. And let's say for a moment that it was true. What does that demonstrate? You're talking about 400 people somewhere in the world when we far more substantial data available which shows that taking the vaccine strongly reduces the risk of serious illness, hospitalization, and death from Covid.

[art_tatum]

My one thing about people saying my body my choice, its a personal decision, etc.
Not if it endangers others.

Its not my body my choice when you drive drunk.

Unless youre planning to stay home forever, not go into buildings, not be near people, its not my body my choice. But guess what, most people saying my body my choice dont wear masks and arent social distancing. Sure you probably dont kill the guy youre talking to at the bar, but he might get it then spread it to his grandma later, and so forth. Its a chain effect thats why we are in year 2.

Also, same people saying that want to ban abortion bc its NOT her body her choice. They think she is killing the "unborn child" endangering someone else. Keep the same logic then.

You don't have the right for 0 risk in society, the price for this is enormous and makes the living environment a practical prison, you should strive to have the liberty to make your own choices to reduce the risk as much as you see fit.
Does COVID still pose high enough risk for the vaccinated to mandate restrictions on employment and freedom of movement for the unvaccinated? I think the answer is a resounding no if the vaccine is actually effective, so there is no point in these mandates, and if the vaccines isn't effective, it also makes no sense in mandating it.
Whether you want to get vaccinated or not is indeed, a personal choice.

600,000+ dead and 20% of people that get hospitalized having lung/heart tissue damage is not minimal risk lol. Thats a fake argument. Even if everyone takes the vaccine its still not zero risk. The price of liberty had BEEN paid. There has been vaccine mandates multiple times. No new liberties are being squashed.

Your line of thinking is exactly why not taking the vaccine is selfish. Theres the immuno compromised and kids who cant take the vaccine. The vaccine also isnt 100% effective at preventing serious covid symptoms, its only as good as your own immune system after it gives it a heads up.
And yes the government has the right to protect ignorant people from each other. If not enough people get vaccinated the virus will linger and mutate more, potentially causing it to be ingrained in our society, potentially mutating to a form that makes current vaccines ineffective. We are not close to herd immunity.

If you crash when youre drunk u suffer the consequences- THAT SHOULDNT be the reason why you dont do it. It should be to protect others.
Meanwhile if you spread covid, sure maybe the 5 people that get it from you in the last month dont die, but when they pass it on and those people pass it on, someone does down the line. You suffer no consequences and dont know who died. So it should be my body my choice right?
Youre thinking too selfishly in your logic if you think the vaccinated are only fearing their own safety.

[Mavrelous]

600,000+ dead and 20% of people that get hospitalized having lung/heart tissue damage is not minimal risk lol. Thats a fake argument. Even if everyone takes the vaccine its still not zero risk.

Your line of thinking is exactly why not taking the vaccine is selfish. Theres the immuno compromised and kids who cant take the vaccine. The vaccine also isnt 100% effective at preventing serious covid symptoms, its only as good as your own immune system after it gives it a heads up.
And yes the government has the right to protect ignorant people from each other. If not enough people get vaccinated the virus will linger and mutate more, potentially causing it to be ingrained in our society, potentially mutating to a form that makes current vaccines ineffective. We are not close to herd immunity.

If you crash when youre drunk u suffer the consequences- THAT SHOULDNT be the reason why you dont do it. It should be to protect others.
Meanwhile if you spread covid, sure maybe the 5 people that get it from you in the last month dont die, but when they pass it on and those people pass it on, someone does down the line. You suffer no consequences and dont know who died. So it should be my body my choice right?
Youre thinking to selfishly in your logic if you think the vaccinated are only fearing their own safety.

You're bursting into an open door...
This isn't about the risk of COVID, the unvaccinated aren't responssible for the disease.
The comparison is between the risk for a vaccinated person from an unvaccinated person compared to the risk to catching it from vaccinated person.
While no one knows the difference in risk between vaccinated and unvaccinated to spread, what we have are guesses and not good ones, but we do know that both vaxed and unvaxed spread the disease, we also know that the vaccine is advertised to have 95-99% protection from death or severe COVID, multiply the IFR by the protection, and then throw a ratio of risk between vaxed and unvaxed to spread it, you end up with less risk than the flu now.
If you want to claim that the vaccine isn't really that effective, then what are we discussing exactly?

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[MoneyTalks41890]

Bron and Dame showing some real solid leadership on the issue. It’s really sad how we have all the information we need at our fingertips and instead people just seek information (usually false) to reinforce their emotions

[art_tatum]

600,000+ dead and 20% of people that get hospitalized having lung/heart tissue damage is not minimal risk lol. Thats a fake argument. Even if everyone takes the vaccine its still not zero risk.

Your line of thinking is exactly why not taking the vaccine is selfish. Theres the immuno compromised and kids who cant take the vaccine. The vaccine also isnt 100% effective at preventing serious covid symptoms, its only as good as your own immune system after it gives it a heads up.
And yes the government has the right to protect ignorant people from each other. If not enough people get vaccinated the virus will linger and mutate more, potentially causing it to be ingrained in our society, potentially mutating to a form that makes current vaccines ineffective. We are not close to herd immunity.

If you crash when youre drunk u suffer the consequences- THAT SHOULDNT be the reason why you dont do it. It should be to protect others.
Meanwhile if you spread covid, sure maybe the 5 people that get it from you in the last month dont die, but when they pass it on and those people pass it on, someone does down the line. You suffer no consequences and dont know who died. So it should be my body my choice right?
Youre thinking to selfishly in your logic if you think the vaccinated are only fearing their own safety.

You're bursting into an open door...
This isn't about the risk of COVID, the unvaccinated aren't responssible for the disease.
The comparison is between the risk for a vaccinated person from an unvaccinated person compared to the risk to catching it from vaccinated person.
While no one knows the difference in risk between vaccinated and unvaccinated to spread, what we have are guesses and not good ones, but we do know that both vaxed and unvaxed spread the disease, we also know that the vaccine is advertised to have 95-99% protection from death or severe COVID, multiply the IFR by the protection, and then throw a ratio of risk between vaxed and unvaxed to spread it, you end up with less risk than the flu now.
If you want to claim that the vaccine isn't really that effective, then what are we discussing exactly?

Read my response again. Youre still thinking the vaccinated are just using selfish logic.

1. Society is not zero risk, but if we can knowingly mitigate risk for something dangerous such as covid, we should, since vaccine mandates have already been done before.

2. No one here is responsible for covid but we have to look out for each other in order to stop it. A major point of vaccines is to reach herd immunity so we can end the virus spread before it becomes like the flu where it wont go away. Your argument is saying its not your responsibility to actively help mitigate a global pandemic killing millions?

3. The Vaccinated are not just looking out for themselves. I personally care about the immuno compromised and kids who dont have the option of vaccines. I also care about the ignorant antivaxers who are being lead astray by politics or pastors, especially ones that are in the at risk group. Like surprise, i rather not have strangers die or get hospitalized when they dont have to?

4. Again, if not enough people get vaccinated, covid could be here for awhile and also mutate making current vaccines ineffective as it "breeds" in the unvaccinated population. We dont have full data on covid transmission vax vs unvax, that takes years, but yes if most people are vaccinated, just like other virus pandemics, itll stop the spread. If people have less symptoms/coughing, its harder to spread the virus regardless of viral load in your body.
And just the fact that vaccines work should mean either viral load is decreased, or length of viral replication is decreased (but same load as unvaxes), or both. Just like any other vaccine/virus.

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

?s=21 No more birthday parities Kyrie …

[Ballerhogger]

If I’m player and seen that I’m getting it … even if hate the shot . (Which I don’t)

[nickhx2]

prohibited from public venues sounds really restrictive lol

i mean that whole thing makes anyone not wanting to get vaccinated sound like they're a leper, which, you know

your choice, your consequences. so enjoy

[atlantabbq99]

I'm vaccinated. At this point, if a player or anybody doesn't want to get vaccinated and ends up dying, its fine by me. I have no problems in mutations and getting a booster every 6 months as long as more stupid people are removed from the populations.

I work for a logistic company and I've gotten more raises and bonuses over the last two years. So I have no problem in letting this pandemic keep going on because some people don't want to get vaccinated. Only thing is that i think the government and insurance companies should cover 0% of the bill of an unvaccinated person and the unvaccinated should be given the lowest priority in hospitals. Just let them go back home and die in their house, and i'm ok with it.

NOTE:

user suspended

[bwgood77]

prohibited from public venues sounds really restrictive lol

i mean that whole thing makes anyone not wanting to get vaccinated sound like they're a leper, which, you know

your choice, your consequences. so enjoy

Isn't a basketball arena a public venue?

[nickhx2]

yeah but idk it's so obvious i kinda was thinking "there's no way they're actually really gonna ban players, are they?" lol

[Mavrelous]

Read my response again. Youre still thinking the vaccinated are just using selfish logic.

1. Society is not zero risk, but if we can knowingly mitigate risk for something dangerous such as covid, we should, since vaccine mandates have already been done before.

2. No one here is responsible for covid but we have to look out for each other in order to stop it. A major point of vaccines is to reach herd immunity so we can end the virus spread before it becomes like the flu where it wont go away. Your argument is saying its not your responsibility to actively help mitigate a global pandemic killing millions?

3. The Vaccinated are not just looking out for themselves. I personally care about the immuno compromised and kids who dont have the option of vaccines. I also care about the ignorant antivaxers who are being lead astray by politics or pastors, especially ones that are in the at risk group. Like surprise, i rather not have strangers die or get hospitalized when they dont have to?

This rambling, virtue signaling and name calling isn't conducive to good discussion, many people are pro vaccine for those who need it and anti mandate, your tunnel vision on the vaccine benefit ignores:
1. Superior immunity of natural infection, and for those of near 0 risk, it is actually better for their surrounding to acquire the stronger immunity.
2. A goverment that can mandate injection of substance against person's will is a government capable of much worse, we limit the exectuive power for a reason.
3. Vaccine have side effects, watch the latest FDA committee on booster and listen to why the committee voted 16-2 against booster shots.

4. Again, if not enough people get vaccinated, covid could be here for awhile and also mutate making current vaccines ineffective as it "breeds" in the unvaccinated population. We dont have full data on covid transmission vax vs unvax, that takes years, but yes if most people are vaccinated, just like other virus pandemics, itll stop the spread. If people have less symptoms/coughing, its harder to spread the virus regardless of viral load in your body.
And just the fact that vaccines work should mean either viral load is decreased, or length of viral replication is decreased (but same load as unvaxes), or both. Just like any other vaccine/virus.

Viral load is similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed, more on that here:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/evidence-mounts-that-people-with-breakthrough-infections-can-spread-delta-easily

There is no evidence or reason to believe mutation breed in unvaccinated and not in uvaxinated, evolution require forcing, and there is plenty of that in the vaccinated, no one serious claims that because there is no evidence of that, here is a simulated model that tried to project that,
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3?

[xdrta+]

yeah but idk it's so obvious i kinda was thinking "there's no way they're actually really gonna ban players, are they?" lol

If they're not following the rules they can be suspended or quarantined, depending on what the infraction is. The whole point of these rules is to prevent the spread of Covid through the team and league and cause games to be cancelled. Makes sense to restrict unvaccinated players movements.

[art_tatum]

Read my response again. Youre still thinking the vaccinated are just using selfish logic.

1. Society is not zero risk, but if we can knowingly mitigate risk for something dangerous such as covid, we should, since vaccine mandates have already been done before.

2. No one here is responsible for covid but we have to look out for each other in order to stop it. A major point of vaccines is to reach herd immunity so we can end the virus spread before it becomes like the flu where it wont go away. Your argument is saying its not your responsibility to actively help mitigate a global pandemic killing millions?

3. The Vaccinated are not just looking out for themselves. I personally care about the immuno compromised and kids who dont have the option of vaccines. I also care about the ignorant antivaxers who are being lead astray by politics or pastors, especially ones that are in the at risk group. Like surprise, i rather not have strangers die or get hospitalized when they dont have to?

This rambling, virtue signaling and name calling isn't conducive to good discussion, many people are pro vaccine for those who need it and anti mandate, your tunnel vision on the vaccine benefit ignores:
1. Superior immunity of natural infection, and for those of near 0 risk, it is actually better for their surrounding to acquire the stronger immunity.
2. A goverment that can mandate injection of substance against person's will is a government capable of much worse, we limit the exectuive power for a reason.
3. Vaccine have side effects, watch the latest FDA committee on booster and listen to why the committee voted 16-2 against booster shots.

4. Again, if not enough people get vaccinated, covid could be here for awhile and also mutate making current vaccines ineffective as it "breeds" in the unvaccinated population. We dont have full data on covid transmission vax vs unvax, that takes years, but yes if most people are vaccinated, just like other virus pandemics, itll stop the spread. If people have less symptoms/coughing, its harder to spread the virus regardless of viral load in your body.
And just the fact that vaccines work should mean either viral load is decreased, or length of viral replication is decreased (but same load as unvaxes), or both. Just like any other vaccine/virus.

Viral load is similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed, more on that here:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/evidence-mounts-that-people-with-breakthrough-infections-can-spread-delta-easily

There is no evidence or reason to believe mutation breed in unvaccinated and not in uvaxinated, evolution require forcing, and there is plenty of that in the vaccinated, no one serious claims that because there is no evidence of that, here is a simulated model that tried to project that,
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3?

1. Thats a misunderstanding of science. One of my degrees is molecular biology. Yes you gain great natural immunity AFTER you catch covid, but thats only after covid does its damage, which could mean death or long term damage. And EVEN if youre a healthy prime specimen, you will likely have covid infectious time for longer/more symptoms than vaxed thus more likely to spread it. Sure maybe you dont have symptoms, but why risk others incase you dont? Plenty of ironmen have gotten bad symptoms and died. The argument is selfish, all your arguments are using selfish logic imo.

2. Mandating vaccines already is a thing for decades. No new liberties are being infringed. I made this point multiple times its like youre not reading. So whats the point.

3. The doctors against boosters think the prime aged people dont need a boost (vaccine works good enough). The shots should go to the unvaccinated especially in poor communities or older people. Thats why they voted 18-0 for 65+ aged persons. Not cause of side effects. The only side effects are almost zero % of allergic reactions from generic components in the vaccines. Immediate effects. Those getting boosters wouldnt have had reactions. So makes no sense. If they mean long term effects? Those guys took the vaccine already, makes no sense.

4. Viral load was taken as a snapshot when they looked. Like i said, vaccines prepare your immune system for covid, thus the immune system EITHER decreases viral load over time OR decrease the amount of time covid replicates (even if viral load is the same as unvaxxed) OR both. If Vaccines work, which we both agree then they help decrease spread. If you cough LESS, you are less likely to spread it. Lets not act like there hasnt been vaccines and viruses before covid. We have complete research on those which show VACCINES HELP PREVENT SPREAD. This virus is the same thing, just because research isnt complete on viral load doesnt mean somehow the laws of physics and biology is different. Its like when the cdc said they didnt know if masks helped at first. They didnt have complete data, but logically its 1+1.

Anyways i pretty much repeated points 2 and 4.
I literally said those points in the parts you quoted. I talked about viral load and previous mandates.

Also the longer /more people the virus can replicate the more likely of mutations. Its not even biology 1+1 its pure physics. And we both agree vaccines if everyone is vaccinated help decrease spread and people with the virus over time. Like previous virus/vaccines right?

[nickhx2]

it's like someone taking a squirt gun against a fire hose

[nickhx2]

yeah but idk it's so obvious i kinda was thinking "there's no way they're actually really gonna ban players, are they?" lol

If they're not following the rules they can be suspended or quarantined, depending on what the infraction is. The whole point of these rules is to prevent the spread of Covid through the team and league and cause games to be cancelled. Makes sense to restrict unvaccinated players movements.

agree. i was originally thinking that the nba wanted to be as hands-off with this towards their players, as possible but i'll be pleasantly surprised if this is the actual legit hard and fast ruling against unvaccinated players.

[Optms]

I'm vaccinated. At this point, if a player or anybody doesn't want to get vaccinated and ends up dying, its fine by me. I have no problems in mutations and getting a booster every 6 months as long as more stupid people are removed from the populations.

I work for a logistic company and I've gotten more raises and bonuses over the last two years. So I have no problem in letting this pandemic keep going on because some people don't want to get vaccinated. Only thing is that i think the government and insurance companies should cover 0% of the bill of an unvaccinated person and the unvaccinated should be given the lowest priority in hospitals. Just let them go back home and die in their house, and i'm ok with it.

How are people allowed to post garbage like this? This guy literately just said he's fine with massive deaths and that he's okay with it because his wallet will get fatter.

BTW, I'm also vaccinated. And for those of you that are unvaccinated, no, the vaccine did not turn me crazy or turn me into a deranged sociopath.

[Repeat 3-peat]

I'm vaccinated. At this point, if a player or anybody doesn't want to get vaccinated and ends up dying, its fine by me. I have no problems in mutations and getting a booster every 6 months as long as more stupid people are removed from the populations.

I work for a logistic company and I've gotten more raises and bonuses over the last two years. So I have no problem in letting this pandemic keep going on because some people don't want to get vaccinated. Only thing is that i think the government and insurance companies should cover 0% of the bill of an unvaccinated person and the unvaccinated should be given the lowest priority in hospitals. Just let them go back home and die in their house, and i'm ok with it.

How are people allowed to post garbage like this? This guy literately just said he's fine with massive deaths and that he's okay with it because his wallet will get fatter.

BTW, I'm also vaccinated. And for those of you that are unvaccinated, no, the vaccine did not turn me crazy or turn me into a deranged sociopath.

Some of these people want you dead if you don't agree with their views. A few weeks ago In the "current affair covid thread" a poster mentioned how the unvaccinated should be "removed from culture" and no one batted an eye. Which is part of the reason why I don't really care to be apart of these covid threads.

[xdrta+]

I'm vaccinated. At this point, if a player or anybody doesn't want to get vaccinated and ends up dying, its fine by me. I have no problems in mutations and getting a booster every 6 months as long as more stupid people are removed from the populations.

I work for a logistic company and I've gotten more raises and bonuses over the last two years. So I have no problem in letting this pandemic keep going on because some people don't want to get vaccinated. Only thing is that i think the government and insurance companies should cover 0% of the bill of an unvaccinated person and the unvaccinated should be given the lowest priority in hospitals. Just let them go back home and die in their house, and i'm ok with it.

How are people allowed to post garbage like this? This guy literately just said he's fine with massive deaths and that he's okay with it because his wallet will get fatter.

BTW, I'm also vaccinated. And for those of you that are unvaccinated, no, the vaccine did not turn me crazy or turn me into a deranged sociopath.

Some of these people want you dead if you don't agree with their views. A few weeks ago In the "current affair covid thread" a poster mentioned how the unvaccinated should be "removed from culture" and no one batted an eye. Which is part of the reason why I don't really care to be apart of these covid threads.

And yet, here you are.