Jerry West pretty much destroys JJ Redick

[cgf]

I understand his point, but Jerry is basically saying only the greats can competently talk basketball. That’s just not true. If you make it to the league, your opinion on ball should be revered. But that’s just me. Keep doing your thing JJ!

West obviously took it as a personal dig at him and his contemporaries, which is understandable. That's why he took a personal dig at JJ himself, saying he's nowhere near their level, or whatever.

People should remember that West, for much as he's perceived as a respectful and gracious man, has always been kind of a high maintenance ego (even long after his playing days).

Getting super defensive and lashing out at the person, doesn't do much to dissuade people from thinking that there was truth to what that person said. It looks a lot more like an insecure diva demanding validation.

[BlackThought]

This whole thing about we should thank and respect those people for "paving the way" as if those guys had that in mind when they played. Welcome to the life of a human being. When you go to work tomorrow make sure you remember that you are "paving the way" for future generations. Give yourself a pat on the back and make sure to keep that head up.

Yes Bill Russell was in no way a pioneer.

what is your point?

[Sprewell4Three]

I looked at clips of the guys playing in the 60s and it's laughable. Missed layups from running at 100% full speed, guards shooting 15ft hooks, etc. Jerry West has absolutely no right to talk down on Redick considering high school Redick was probably a better player than peak West.

Clown

Yet you fail to mention the rule change that disallowed players to play like they do today. Has any GM, or great player been taking JJs redick bball knowledge serious ? Last time I checked guys like Shaq & Kobe were getting mentored by Jerry West and Bill Russell. Why ? Because they know they were great players during their time. Only idiot fans in this current generation of memes and likes , act like former great players were bums.


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[WRau1]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

[CIN-C-STAR]

The idea they were plumbers is extremely stupid. Like really really really stupid.

As is the idea that being a plumber means you were automatically not that good at basketball.
I'm trying to figure out the logic behind the sentiment that if you worked a second job to take care of your family, you suck at basketball
Literally makes no sense. It's as logical as saying Draymond Green is a podcaster and therefore he isn't good at basketball. Or Michael Jordan was an actor and brand spokesperson, and therefore wasn't really that good at basketball.
It's funny how many people are defending the "plumbers and firefighters" comment as analysis, when it's plainly moronic and not insightful at all, not to mention not accurate as you said.

Jerry West himself said players back then couldn't dedicate themselves to the game because they held down part-time jobs out of necessity. So I guess he's plainly moronic and not insightful about his own era.

Show me video of Jerry West saying he wasn't dedicated to the game lol
You can't because it doesn't exist. He was insanely competitive and if you ever watched him play you would know he had a lot of skill that he clearly developed over time practicing.
It's true they were at a competitive disadvantage compared to modern players, but to say they weren't dedicated to the game is a total falsehood.

[celtics543]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

The guys who barnstormed all year and played way more games than the guys do today all while traveling commercial flight or by train from city to city? I think they'd be just fine with their work ethic.

[druggas]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

[WRau1]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

[garrick]

I looked at clips of the guys playing in the 60s and it's laughable. Missed layups from running at 100% full speed, guards shooting 15ft hooks, etc. Jerry West has absolutely no right to talk down on Redick considering high school Redick was probably a better player than peak West.

Clown

Yet you fail to mention the rule change that disallowed players to play like they do today. Has any GM, or great player been taking JJs redick bball knowledge serious ? Last time I checked guys like Shaq & Kobe were getting mentored by Jerry West and Bill Russell. Why ? Because they know they were great players during their time. Only idiot fans in this current generation of memes and likes , act like former great players were bums.


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What rule was that?

No doubt Jerry had great fundamentals but he was hardy athletic by modern standards and if you look at his highlight reels a lot of those layups he's shooting are gonna be swatted away by help defenders and this is still when there's no 3pt shot so defenders had less of a reason to not collapse in the paint when defenders drove.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

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[John Murdoch]

Awww..thought it was the winning time version of West

[Sprewell4Three]

I looked at clips of the guys playing in the 60s and it's laughable. Missed layups from running at 100% full speed, guards shooting 15ft hooks, etc. Jerry West has absolutely no right to talk down on Redick considering high school Redick was probably a better player than peak West.

Clown

Yet you fail to mention the rule change that disallowed players to play like they do today. Has any GM, or great player been taking JJs redick bball knowledge serious ? Last time I checked guys like Shaq & Kobe were getting mentored by Jerry West and Bill Russell. Why ? Because they know they were great players during their time. Only idiot fans in this current generation of memes and likes , act like former great players were bums.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What rule was that?

No doubt Jerry had great fundamentals but he was hardy athletic by modern standards and if you look at his highlight reels a lot of those layups he's shooting are gonna be swatted away by help defenders and this is still when there's no 3pt shot so defenders had less of a reason to not collapse in the paint when defenders drove.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url]

Here we go again with the “player doesn’t have athleticism” do you guys watch basketball? Is Bird , Jokic, Luka athletic ?
Speaking of Bird you don’t think he learned from watching guys like West play? Or inspired him ? Some of you guys just love putting your foot in your mouth with the stuff you say on here.

[ReddoverKobe]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

[sikma42]

Yet you fail to mention the rule change that disallowed players to play like they do today. Has any GM, or great player been taking JJs redick bball knowledge serious ? Last time I checked guys like Shaq & Kobe were getting mentored by Jerry West and Bill Russell. Why ? Because they know they were great players during their time. Only idiot fans in this current generation of memes and likes , act like former great players were bums.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What rule was that?

No doubt Jerry had great fundamentals but he was hardy athletic by modern standards and if you look at his highlight reels a lot of those layups he's shooting are gonna be swatted away by help defenders and this is still when there's no 3pt shot so defenders had less of a reason to not collapse in the paint when defenders drove.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url]

Here we go again with the “player doesn’t have athleticism” do you guys watch basketball? Is Bird , Jokic, Luka athletic ?
Speaking of Bird you don’t think he learned from watching guys like West play? Or inspired him ? Some of you guys just love putting your foot in your mouth with the stuff you say on here.

Jerry West was very athletic. More athletic than guys like almost every two guard in the league, including peak Klay and probably James Harden too.

Watch on YouTube

Jerry West is the size of Kobe with a quick trigger and insane touch, while also being a top tier athlete. He would be a problem in this league and prob average 30 a game.

[druggas]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

Read a book and you would know.

[WRau1]

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

Read a book and you would know.

Still you're opinion.

[druggas]

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

Read a book and you would know.

Still you're opinion.

No, it's Wilt's factual story. Why are you being difficult?

[og15]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

Well most of the focus has been on the quote and many without context. For example, there are posts in this thread countering Redick by saying that all time greats would still be good, but Redick said that already, which means many people also understood or believed something different from what even Redick said.

So yes, a lot of response and reaction is going to be to just the quote and not his whole argument in context.

[Big J]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

Well most of the focus has been on the quote and many without context. For example, there are posts in this thread countering Redick by saying that all time greats would still be good, but Redick said that already, which means many people also understood or believed something different from what even Redick said.

So yes, a lot of response and reaction is going to be to just the quote and not his whole argument in context.

Redick's gotta know not to throw lines out like that though if he doesn't want people taking them out of context.

[Nate505]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

Well most of the focus has been on the quote and many without context. For example, there are posts in this thread countering Redick by saying that all time greats would still be good, but Redick said that already, which means many people also understood or believed something different from what even Redick said.

So yes, a lot of response and reaction is going to be to just the quote and not his whole argument in context.

In context, the clear purpose of his "firemen and plumbers" comment was pure disdain. I'm not sure how anyone can interpret it otherwise. He believes Cousy's accomplishments are less because even if Cousy himself was a great player, he was doing it against people who weren't professional basketball players, but "firemen and plumbers."

Or someone, please, correct me if I'm wrong. Was there another purpose of the plumbers comment that meant anything else but implying they weren't professional basketball players.

It reminds me a bit of Mike Tyson. You look at his opponents during his dominant run, and it wasn't exactly a murderer's row of opponents. Nobody he fought would have been considered an all time great the the prime of their career, except some guys he lost to like Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, and a well past his prime Larry Holmes (who he did beat). Yet at the same time, nobody insults the boxers he fought and his skill was so great that people rightfully consider Tyson one of the great boxers ever.

[DonaldSanders]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

Well most of the focus has been on the quote and many without context. For example, there are posts in this thread countering Redick by saying that all time greats would still be good, but Redick said that already, which means many people also understood or believed something different from what even Redick said.

So yes, a lot of response and reaction is going to be to just the quote and not his whole argument in context.

The quote is more directly disrespectful than you're making it out to be. JJ said "(Bob Cousy) he was being guarded by plumbers and fireman" -- Jerry West in fact did guard Bob Cousy in 2 separate NBA Finals, so it's not like JJ was showering the old greats with praise. He was diminishing both Cousy and those that guarded him, which does include Jerry West. Would you describe Jerry West as a fireman or a plumber? I think you're letting Reddick off the hook here.

The actual quote is "The great players could play in any era" -- he doesn't say they would be great or good, just said they could play. It's a bit ambiguous, and it was while Reddick was a bit in his feels defending his old teammate. He went too far in my opinion.