Where does the myth of physical 90s NBA basketball come from?

[og15]

I posted this in another thread

Here's a different take from some older players some years back:

Watch on YouTube

Bird:
"I like the game now, I think they've cleaned it up as far as the grabbing and holding and cheap shots"

"We wouldn't even guard guys beyond the 3PT line, we would stay way underneath and go under every pick" - Note that when people say this, some people react like they are making it up

"I can remember Danny (Ainge) talking about using it back then, he thought, you could shoot 35, 36% from 3 and better than if you shot 50% from the 2's" - Yes, everyone wasn't oblivious to this reality

It was figure out pretty early, just not utilized

I was calling for teams to take more 3s back in the day myself, the narrative was defense was tougher in the playoffs and 3 point shooters would underperform because of it making it a bad shot in the playoffs. I remember during the 2011 Mavs run they were being dismissed partially because it was the greatest collection of 3 point shooters ever assembled at the time and it was assumed that they would get knocked out because they took too many 3s. Terry, Kidd, Dirk, and Peja were all top 10 all time in 3s made at the time which sounds insane now. Terry is still #11 at the moment but CJ McCollum has already passed Kidd and Dirk who are now down to #19 and #20, Tim Hardaway Jr. is less than 150 threes away from passing them both. Those Mavs would comfortably be last in the league in 3 pointers attempted now. They were dismissed as a fluke but I think that is when the thinking really started to change, then Golden State happened

The Magic in 09 had six guys taking 2+ threes per game at 36%. That got them to the finals.

The Celtics 08-10 run was built on excellent three shooters Allen and Pierce. In 08 they had four shooters averaging 3.8+ attempts per game on 38% or better.

The 2013 Heat had 5 players taking 2.4+ threes per game on 39% or better shooting.

The 2013 Spurs had five players taking 2.2+ threes per game on 35% or better from three. They almost beat the Heat thanks to Danny Green gping thermonuclear from three. He opened 4/9, 5/5, 7/9, 3/5, 6/10 feom three as the Spurs took their 3-2 series lead. In the final two games he was 1/5 and 1/6. That series was nearly won, then lost based on three point shooting.

The 2014 Spurs had six players average 2+ attempts on 35% or better, four of those shot 40% or better.

The Rockets were pushing the three ball before the concept really took off.

The three really was a big part of playoff success at least as early as 2008, but teams were slow to fully appreciate it's importance. They needed it and the teams that happened to have it did really well, yet there was a 6-8 year period where it wasn't embraced despite consistent indications it should be.

You can also go back to the Houston Rockets in the 90's when the line was brought in.

Like you said in your other post, many has the head knowledge, but there was resistance to going against the grain, and certainly the idea of having a lower FG% even if it was a higher effectiveness (what we would now call eFG%) was just not as accepted as being okay.

[SomeBunghole]

THere's more to the perimeter than the 3pt shot, but if you're trying to say that there was no one like Steph, absolutely. And no one you needed to legitimately pick up at halfcourt, either, for sure. Steph is a WILD shooter, and as I've already noted, would absolutely be fine in the 90s.

Oh, of course. His numbers would've reflected the pace and it's hard to imagine anyone taking 10 threes a game in 1997, but Steph would still be an MVP candidate.

[og15]

THere's more to the perimeter than the 3pt shot, but if you're trying to say that there was no one like Steph, absolutely. And no one you needed to legitimately pick up at halfcourt, either, for sure. Steph is a WILD shooter, and as I've already noted, would absolutely be fine in the 90s.

Oh, of course. His numbers would've reflected the pace and it's hard to imagine anyone taking 10 threes a game in 1997, but Steph would still be an MVP candidate.

Baron Davis took 8.7 a game in 03-04, you would be surprised what people can do if they really want to lol

[SomeBunghole]

Baron Davis took 8.7 a game in 03-04, you would be surprised what people can do if they really want to lol

Haha, right. I forgot that Steph in 2003 would be forced into playing 44 minutes a game during regular season because quite simply, no one knew any better.

[rilamann]

As someone who followed the NBA thought the entire 90's. You have to separate the 90's into 2 categories.

1990-1995 was awesome. Better than the NBA today.

1996-1999 was pretty meh and boring. One of the more boring periods of NBA basketball since I have been following the league. After the 1994'95 season, the NBA fell off for awhile. Started to get better in 2000.

But the people whose shtick it is to bash 90's NBA basketball as a whole while posting a box score of the Heat beating the Grizzlies 70-62 in 1997 are most definitely Lebron fan boys.

And LMAO at the dude on page 1 trying to say that flopping was a thing in the 90's.


Vlade was really the only guy who played in the NBA in the 90's who had a reputation for flopping and even Vlade didn't really start flopping until the 2000's when he was on the Kings.

Today you have an entire contingent of players in the league whose defining trait is acting like they were hit by freight train on minor contact.

Nobody in the 90's was doing that.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[Godymas]

Defense was easier in the 90s. No one had to guard the perimeter so you could collapse more easily.

Today any player worth their weight as a starter can drive and kick for a 3

[NbaAllDay]

Defense was easier in the 90s. No one had to guard the perimeter so you could collapse more easily.

Today any player worth their weight as a starter can drive and kick for a 3

This is something people always forget. See any number of games and watch how stagnant half the team is every possession.

People also forget more contact will be created because more shots/movement is below the foul line where it's congested.

[Eric Millegan]

Obviously you had the Bad Boys Pistons in the late 80s who were infamous for hard fouls. The league changed the flagrant foul rules in 90-91 to remedy this.

When you watch 90s games in full, it isn't any more physical than what you see today. Especially when looking at the playoffs. Modern playoff games have so much contact in them.

A more physical era than the 90a was clearly the 2000s. The 2004 Pistons teams were so physical that the NBA had to implement rule changes to fix it. They manhandled their opponents. Shouldn't the 2000s be known as the physical era given that it was WAY more physical than the 90s?

Where did this myth of physical 90s basketball come from? Watching the games, it's just completely false. I was actually shocked at how little contact there was when watching those games. Is this just BS perpetuated by dumb/salty ex-players, then parroted by their nostalgic fans who hate anything new?

PJ Brown picked up Charlie Ward, flipped him over, and threw him to the ground. That doesn’t happen anymore. What games have you been watching? If you watched the whole decade, you’d understand.

[Karate Diop]

Because the 90s didn’t have the Trae Young, Brunson type flopping that we see in today game.

Did you ever watch Michael Jordan play? Nobody verbally flopped more effectively than MJ.

[Raps in 4]

It comes from nostalgia and nothing else. Today's kids will be looking back at this current era 20 years from now as some peak physical era too. They'll be telling the young fans of the 2040s how basketball in the 2010s and 2020s was more physical than rugby.

[Lala870]

Defense was easier in the 90s. No one had to guard the perimeter so you could collapse more easily.

Today any player worth their weight as a starter can drive and kick for a 3

Anyone who watched Golden State from 2012-2018 knows this is total horse crap. Golden state changed the narrative of basketball but dont be fooled...

Watching the warriors live every playoff run showed this entire league is a harlem globetrotter production.

Players going down with phantom injuries, soft defense, bogut screens, phantom fouls, load management etc

[Lala870]

Because the 90s didn’t have the Trae Young, Brunson type flopping that we see in today game.

Did you ever watch Michael Jordan play? Nobody verbally flopped more effectively than MJ.

The league is whatever they want it to be.

The next NBA logo should be scott foster.

[FarBeyondDriven]

"myth" lmao. See, back then, offensive players weren't allowed to travel, push off, carry and force switches on illegal moving screens. So guys were defended by their counterparts i.e. SF v SF, SG vs SG, etc. It meant there wasn't a huge difference in size and athleticism for the most part. It made it much harder to even get into the paint due to hand-checking but if/once you did, there was a shot-blocking PF and Center waiting for you and often offensive players would get hacked both on the way to and at the rim.

[Ice Man]

"myth" lmao. See, back then, offensive players weren't allowed to travel, push off, carry and force switches on illegal moving screens. So guys were defended by their counterparts i.e. SF v SF, SG vs SG, etc. It meant there wasn't a huge difference in size and athleticism for the most part. It made it much harder to even get into the paint due to hand-checking but if/once you did, there was a shot-blocking PF and Center waiting for you and often offensive players would get hacked both on the way to and at the rim.

Nonsense. The lane was more congested due to lack of spacing, so you had to be as good as this guy to get to the rim consistently, but all this stuff about hacking and hitting and checking, so that players had to fight through fouls while dribbling ... it didn't happen.. Just watch the video; the defenses look like today's, aside from the congestion.

I mean, he's never hand checked, not once.

Watch on YouTube

[fanofthegreats]

It’s all Jordan propoganda- 90s was a subpar era to anyone who understands gameplay.

[Ice Man]

It’s all Jordan propoganda- 90s was a subpar era to anyone who understands gameplay.

Not subpar, just different. Today's game permits a lot more carrying of the ball, more defensive contact off the ball in the paint, and of course has much better 3-point shooters. All those things have turned the game into more of perimeter contest, as it's easier to shoot long 3s (because the players have become better at it), easier for a perimeter to player to fake-and-drive (because travelling is rarely called, and because the lane is more open due to 4- and even 5-out offenses), and harder to post up (because bigs get mauled in the paint off the ball).

So, the tactics have adjusted. But they were great players back then too, only under different conditions.

[MavsDirk41]

It’s all Jordan propoganda- 90s was a subpar era to anyone who understands gameplay.

Please explain why the nba was subpar from 1990-1999….looking forward to your reply

[Johnny Bball]

Why can't people get over comparing different eras with markedly different rulesets (which is always ignored). What did your parents do to you?

[bledredwine]

It’s all Jordan propoganda- 90s was a subpar era to anyone who understands gameplay.

Please explain why the nba was subpar from 1990-1999….looking forward to your reply

Don't take him seriously. He's upset from the days I was on the PC forum and put down
all of his ridiculous Lebron debates with stats. ... to this day, he's posting nonsense in retaliation.

In all fairness, my sig probably doesn't help the case.

He's posting with emotion, not logic.

In my experience, as their hero approaches the end of their career, that's when the flair ups get worse
because there's no case left and wasn't to begin with. That's frustrating when your opinion is on that side.
(Lebron now, but same with Kobe days, literally identical)