Game 1 of the Finals posts horrific TV ratings

[D.Brasco]

Utah is responsible for the highest rated finals of all time

I'm pretty sure that was Michael Jordan responsible for that. Also, they had a big star as their main player then, in Karl Malone.

Speaking of Utah it does seem like in the 90s, Stern and the media knew how to market stars even when they weren't in the biggest markets. Like most casual fans knew who Drexler was in Portland, Stockton/Malone in Utah, Reggie in Indianapolis, Robinson in San Antonio. It's like after Jordan retired in 99 along with the lockout, the league and its TV partners panicked and preferred large markets or nothing afterwards.

That stretched somewhat into the early 2000s as well. Vince Carter and T-Mac were big stars on non-NBA glamor locations/former expansion teams.

Might have been the 2000s Lakers Dynasty impact, that got the league thinking it was big markets that would save the league.

[KyRo23]

Why does it seem like a lot of people are happy about bad ratings and seemingly wanting the NBA to fail? Is it just an ego thing by proving they’re right? I don’t really get it

[levon]

Why does it seem like a lot of people are happy about bad ratings and seemingly wanting the NBA to fail? Is it just an ego thing by proving they’re right? I don’t really get it

A lot of people don't even watch the NBA anymore, but still post here to confirm that it's bad nowadays. Kind of like after seeing a movie jumping on Reddit to read the reviews that agree with you.

[jkvonny]

You underrate how far of a market Utah extends to. Boise and Spokane are massive.

There are probably nearly as many people in my Uber delivery range as there are in Idaho.

Slight exaggeration.

Forgot to mention Coeur d'Alene…

[KyRo23]

Why does it seem like a lot of people are happy about bad ratings and seemingly wanting the NBA to fail? Is it just an ego thing by proving they’re right? I don’t really get it

A lot of people don't even watch the NBA anymore, but still post here to confirm that it's bad nowadays. Kind of like after seeing a movie jumping on Reddit to read the reviews that agree with you.

It's baffling. I hear people saying "Silver has gotta get the big markets to the finals, these ratings suck". I cannot fathom where that mindset comes from or what people want

[Backcountry]

Illegal streaming numbers don’t matter because they are not monetized and that number is not that big anyway.

I'll watch an illegal stream if the game I want isn't offered on my channels, and I usually still get the commercials. So in a way they are monetized. Advertisers should be happy about that, because they aren't paying for those ads to be shown, just for the "official" numbers of the ratings!

[Lalouie]

there's something wrong with forced parity. it is not natural. nature doesn't recognize mediocrity.

basketball was always a game of players. it was WILT THE STILT who brought the game recognition. all the biggest movers were players. the game grew organically,,,,,on the backs of it's stars because stars moved the game forward. just like tiger did in golf.
silver/nba is trying to take the game out of the hands of it's stars.. it's fake

those who like tight games?,,,,that's some mass consumption sh*** - like bob ross in art - like take the value out of the hands of the artists and let the everyday joe decide what is art/good

man,,,players have always grown up emulating mj or bird or magic or curry. and teams emulate great teams. the spurs have their fingerprints on a lot of teams

emulating okc depth or indy depth is f'ing weird. you're not emulating greatness, you're trying to win with volumes of mediocrity

and so people don't want to watch something they don't know

[KyRo23]

there's something wrong with forced parity. it is not natural. nature doesn't recognize mediocrity.

basketball was always a game of players. it was WILT THE STILT who brought the game recognition. all the biggest movers were players. the game grew organically,,,,,on the backs of it's stars because stars moved the game forward. just like tiger did in golf

silver/nba is trying to take the game out of the hands of it's stars.. it's fake

those who like tight games?,,,,that's some mass consumption sh*** - like bob ross in art - like take the value out of the hands of the artists and let the everyday joe decide what is art/good

man,,,players have always grown up emulating mj or bird or magic or curry. and teams emulate great teams. the spurs have their fingerprints on a lot of teams

emulating okc depth or indy depth is f'ing weird. you're not emulating greatness, you're trying to win with volumes of mediocrity

I'm not saying you're wrong, but how is it forced and fake? What has the NBA done to make sure it's not a star driven league?

[Backcountry]

I’ll use myself and friend group as an anecdotal example. Since middle school I’ve been a die hard basketball fan, all my friends were basketball fans. I’m kind of the key demographic for the NBA and sports in general. 34, lifelong sports fan, with lots of miscellaneous spending opportunity. My friends fall into the same group. I mean I’ve been a mod on this place multiple times. I was a very “pro league pass” guy on here for years. I stopped buying league pass and didn’t watch a single entire game during the regular season. I talked to a buddy the other day, he didn’t even know the Finals were about to start. I don’t have a single buddy that watches the NBA anymore. But my phone blows up every Sunday during the NFL season from them.

Same boat.

The NBA regular season is tedious. The casual fan is not going to stay tuned in on a regular basis.

I find that the NFL doesn't have that problem.

Yup. And the NFL has no issues keeping young people’s attention as well, and not just for 2.5-3 hours. It’s 7 hours every Sunday. And this is where the NFL is consumed very differently than the NBA. NFL fans watch NFl games. Your team has a bye week or playing at a different time? NFL fans are still plopping down to watch some games.

While the NBA, most fans just watch their team or favorite player play.

My scornful view of the NFL's popularity is that it is mainly due to low attention span. I mean, you can watch a football game and not really pay attention for the majority of the time. What is it, like 11 or 12 minutes of action in a 60-minute game that lasts 3 hours? So it becomes more of a social thing where you can spend most of your time eating and drinking and high-fiving and talking. Fits todays low-attention span society perfectly.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Illegal streaming numbers don’t matter because they are not monetized and that number is not that big anyway.

They do matter, because the people watching will engage with other NBA media. Also, some of those illegal streams still have commercials all the same.


The NBA has a unique problem, they have incredible online numbers and engagement and it's hard to get a real grasp on the health of the league from that. For example, real sports app is fairly new, I don't know where a lot of their users are from but this is telling

Read on Twitter

?t=Vui9Wa7oJi4XXbBQrrbN4w&s=19


On their app the NBA is only trailing the NFL by a small margin. There were 400k people that aren't factored into TV ratings keeping up with the game, now how many people around the world were watching if a small app like this has those type of numbers.

The commercials are not targeted for the illegal streaming so that makes those ads almost useless.
NBA media makes the most money from subscribers not ads, per Disney earning reports, and those fans are highly unlikely to attend many games and spend the money there, so I am not sure how do you think they are monetized.
Those fans engaging later on social media, could generate some $ but that is peanuts really, and negligible.

The people watching illegal streams are still seeing commercials and products that they may search for later on, it doesn't matter how the exposure to a brand comes, as long as enough eyes see it. Ideally they want both, your subscription fee AND your eyes on the commercials, but they'll take one from people who use illegal streams, which is partly why they still exist because they're still getting eyes on ads in a lot of cases.

That second part is not entirely true, the NBA makes it's money from selling media rights, how the companies make their money after that is a combo of commercials and subs. You can watch the finals with an antenna, so the ads are obviously the dominant thing for making revenue, which is why the ratings talk is always so loud. But, we know there's a lot of people watching around the world that aren't being accounted for in the ratings, you see it in the NBA's online presence, their social media accounts are incredibly popular.

[Cactus Jack]

Same boat.

The NBA regular season is tedious. The casual fan is not going to stay tuned in on a regular basis.

I find that the NFL doesn't have that problem.

Yup. And the NFL has no issues keeping young people’s attention as well, and not just for 2.5-3 hours. It’s 7 hours every Sunday. And this is where the NFL is consumed very differently than the NBA. NFL fans watch NFl games. Your team has a bye week or playing at a different time? NFL fans are still plopping down to watch some games.

While the NBA, most fans just watch their team or favorite player play.

My scornful view of the NFL's popularity is that it is mainly due to low attention span. I mean, you can watch a football game and not really pay attention for the majority of the time. What is it, like 11 or 12 minutes of action in a 60-minute game that lasts 3 hours? So it becomes more of a social thing where you can spend most of your time eating and drinking and high-fiving and talking. Fits todays low-attention span society perfectly.

That's why god created the RedZone channel. Six to 7 hours of Football on Sundays with no commercials or stoppages.

The social element is a real thing. But some just love the game itself. The chess match between two sides combined with the physicality of the sport. It's a beautiful thing.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

there's something wrong with forced parity. it is not natural. nature doesn't recognize mediocrity.

basketball was always a game of players. it was WILT THE STILT who brought the game recognition. all the biggest movers were players. the game grew organically,,,,,on the backs of it's stars because stars moved the game forward. just like tiger did in golf.
silver/nba is trying to take the game out of the hands of it's stars.. it's fake

those who like tight games?,,,,that's some mass consumption sh*** - like bob ross in art - like take the value out of the hands of the artists and let the everyday joe decide what is art/good

man,,,players have always grown up emulating mj or bird or magic or curry. and teams emulate great teams. the spurs have their fingerprints on a lot of teams

emulating okc depth or indy depth is f'ing weird. you're not emulating greatness, you're trying to win with volumes of mediocrity

and so people don't want to watch something they don't know

It's not parity that's the problem, it's that the NBA and its partners do a horrific job of putting more teams in the spotlight. The Suns had 2x as many national games as the Pacers, that is just incredibly bad promotion, it was obvious that the Suns were going to be bad this season, but that didn't matter to the broadcasters because they had stars. Teams like the Pacers, Rockets, Pistons etc of up-and-coming teams should have been on national TV gaining more attention, but instead the Suns were on almost every other night getting blown out, which took away attention that could have been placed on teams that made the playoffs.


I hate the Pacers, but not from a basketball standpoint, they play at a fast pace, often run and are involved in a lot of close games, they are entertaining in how they play, and if you can't market them you probably shouldn't be involved in the promotion of the sport. The NBA fails by allowing these media partners to just have the same teams on every other night, they also fail by allowing people like Chuck and Shaq to hate on the product several times a week.


The NFL does a much better job of controlling how their media partners talk about the league, the NBA has to get better at that, and much better at flexing bummy teams off national TV games.

[DimesandKnicks]

It's a marketing issue. It doesn't help when you have buffoons at E$PN crapping on small/mid market teams. They need to learn how to promote. NBA has a lot of trendy types, casual fans as well. So the NBA needs to learn how to promote thier products to them.
I also remember when they would poop all over San Antonio/Detroit NBA Finals and the SA/Cleveland NBA Finals and others in the past. Why do that?? That's not helping any.

The NFL doesn't have this problem, regardless of market size.
Some of the smallest/mid markets draws huge crowds and viewership, lot of them are successful as well (Pittsburgh, Green Bay/Milwaukee, Minnesota, Cleveland, New Orleans, Buffalo, Kansas City, Denver, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, Miami, Detroit etc). They know how to promote their profuct, too. Also the NFL tends to have a lot more loyal die hards fan base compared to casual fans. But at the same time, the NFL draws a lot of casuals no matter the match ups.

But whatever, Indy/OKC seems to be a great series so far.

I think things will change, get better once NBC takes over.
TNT does well, tries their best.

The NFL is about the shield the NBA is about the players. It’s not about the two teams being small markets. It’s about the two teams not having players who have transcendent games that are fun to watch

[manlisten]

Same boat.

The NBA regular season is tedious. The casual fan is not going to stay tuned in on a regular basis.

I find that the NFL doesn't have that problem.

Yup. And the NFL has no issues keeping young people’s attention as well, and not just for 2.5-3 hours. It’s 7 hours every Sunday. And this is where the NFL is consumed very differently than the NBA. NFL fans watch NFl games. Your team has a bye week or playing at a different time? NFL fans are still plopping down to watch some games.

While the NBA, most fans just watch their team or favorite player play.

As I’ve said before I have a buddy who thinks NFL is a worse product now but he still watches it for many hours on Sunday because it gives him an excuse to drink with his buddies and tune out his family for a bit.

May not speak to all fans but I think a lot of them sees it as a reason to drink socially and hang out with their buddies opposed to any great thing that the sport is doing.

I'd even go as far as to say most NFL fans aren't even sentient enough to understand that they don't even really enjoy watching football and are only around for ancillary reasons. I kept watching football for a few years before I realized I was only watching because of fantasy and to socialize with people at work. The product is genuinely terrible and only serves as a vehicle for advertising.

[bkkrh]

Why does it seem like a lot of people are happy about bad ratings and seemingly wanting the NBA to fail? Is it just an ego thing by proving they’re right? I don’t really get it

Yeah, the level of negativity on here seems to increase every season somehow. It really feels like rhe motivation of some posters at this point is to just ruin the fun for every person that just likes watching Basketball.

At the start of the Playoffs the narrative was that the NBA is pushing for the Lakers to make the finals, didn't happen. People scream for years that the league is boring and driven by star teams, all of a sudden it's an issue that none of the 4 teams in the Conference Finals is a 1st or 2nd seed. So the new topic is that this will be some underwhelming finals, OKC vs Denver being the true finals, the Pacers being without a chance. Then game 1 ends with a 1 point difference, decided by a buzzer beater, basically the best possible outcome a finals game can have. So we need to find another way to make it negative.

And the worst thing is that it is completely,done on purpose with those kind of narratives. You could have put that article in a complete postive light. The viewer rating almost doubled from 6.5 Million at the start of the game to 11.1 Million at the end of the game. But I guess a headline like "Exciting game makes Game 1 a success after a slow start" isn't edgy enough as a headline-

[TorontoBarneys]

This is probably going to rub some people the wrong way considering this is supposed to be a basketball enthusiast forum, but I am not an "NBA fan", I'm 90% a Raptors fan. If I'm not watching the Raptors, I really just mostly want to watch the most entertaining superstars go at it.

Neither OKC or Indiana are even remotely fun to watch for me. I hate SGA's game and I don't care for anyone on the Pacers. My preference would have been Luka/Jokic in the finals vs. the Knicks or something (the east is terribly boring right now), with the Knicks getting thrashed because they are born jobbers. That would be my idea of a fun postseason if the Raptors aren't included.

[Backcountry]

Yup. And the NFL has no issues keeping young people’s attention as well, and not just for 2.5-3 hours. It’s 7 hours every Sunday. And this is where the NFL is consumed very differently than the NBA. NFL fans watch NFl games. Your team has a bye week or playing at a different time? NFL fans are still plopping down to watch some games.

While the NBA, most fans just watch their team or favorite player play.

My scornful view of the NFL's popularity is that it is mainly due to low attention span. I mean, you can watch a football game and not really pay attention for the majority of the time. What is it, like 11 or 12 minutes of action in a 60-minute game that lasts 3 hours? So it becomes more of a social thing where you can spend most of your time eating and drinking and high-fiving and talking. Fits todays low-attention span society perfectly.

That's why god created the RedZone channel. Six to 7 hours of Football on Sundays with no commercials or stoppages.

The social element is a real thing. But some just love the game itself. The chess match between two sides combined with the physicality of the sport. It's a beautiful thing.

I don't like watching chess, either.

[Backcountry]

This is probably going to rub some people the wrong way considering this is supposed to be a basketball enthusiast forum, but I am not an "NBA fan", I'm 90% a Raptors fan. If I'm not watching the Raptors, I really just mostly want to watch the most entertaining superstars go at it.

Neither OKC or Indiana are even remotely fun to watch for me. I hate SGA's game and I don't care for anyone on the Pacers. My preference would have been Luka/Jokic in the finals vs. the Knicks or something (the east is terribly boring right now), with the Knicks getting thrashed because they are born jobbers. That would be my idea of a fun postseason if the Raptors aren't included.

I've seen a lot of your posts. You don't seem like much of a Raptors fan, either.

[TorontoBarneys]

This is probably going to rub some people the wrong way considering this is supposed to be a basketball enthusiast forum, but I am not an "NBA fan", I'm 90% a Raptors fan. If I'm not watching the Raptors, I really just mostly want to watch the most entertaining superstars go at it.

Neither OKC or Indiana are even remotely fun to watch for me. I hate SGA's game and I don't care for anyone on the Pacers. My preference would have been Luka/Jokic in the finals vs. the Knicks or something (the east is terribly boring right now), with the Knicks getting thrashed because they are born jobbers. That would be my idea of a fun postseason if the Raptors aren't included.

I've seen a lot of your posts. You don't seem like much of a Raptors fan, either.

Yeah the 5k posts in the Raptors forum were just for **** and giggles. Blocked.

[Pachinko_]

I'm at that stage where I wish basketball had less fans and TV ratings, not more.
Trying to appeal to as many people as possible, after a certain point, has been pretty destructive in my opinion.
Just let basketball be, stop **** with it, changing rules and guidance to refs all the time because some fat **** farting in his couch decided to change channel to football or whatever.