The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Catchall]

I'm a big fan of Jackson. I'd still take him ahead of Tatum if it were up to me. He could end up being the best rookie in the class in a few years.

[WalterBenjamin]

I'm a big fan of Jackson. I'd still take him ahead of Tatum if it were up to me. He could end up being the best rookie in the class in a few years.

Of course u take him. He has been creating for him self and has been good at it. Has uppside as much as any one. I was pesimistic about him at the start but he is much quicker than shown on colledge.

[cl2117]

Dillon Brooks deserves some love in this thread. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten much of a mention. He's obviously nowhere near the ROY race, but he's had a really good campaign as a rookie who was taken with the 45th pick.

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I think the question with him is whether or not this is near his peak already. He's an older rookie, he's not incredibly athletic, he can't really create his own shot. I think he has some upside as a 3&D wing though. He's got some defensive upside and he's shot over 40% from 3 a couple months this year (37% for the year).

He might not have the highest ceiling, but he could be a 2nd round steal for what he can give you on that rookie contract. A nice bright spot for Memphis in a tanking year.

[stitches]

Jackson was no. 3 on my board and it didn't look great to start the season but he's been finding his rhytm lately and is showing why people were high on him pre-draft.

[commentatorer]

Ben Simmons tonight: 13/10/12. Once he gets an outside shot he will have the potential to be the best player in the NBA.

He may improve some, but it will clearly be his achilles heel for his entire career. Just like Tyreke EVans, Rubio, etc.

Tyreke Evans is shooting .398 downtown this year (and 5.6 attempts per game in 51 games).
So you are down to only ONE example - Rubio (although he shot .340 from downtown in his rookie year, and got worse after that).

[Winglish]

Where are the arguments now that Simmons is on a winning team and Mitchell is not?

The Jazz have quietly moved into 5th place in the West by going 21-2 in their last 23 games.

The Jazz are 40-30 in the Western Conference while the 76ers are 38-30 in the Least.

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

The rise of the Jazz coincides with Donovan Mitchell with 3 straight Rookie of the Month Awards on his shelf.

(And the return of Gobert, I know. It takes a team to be a good team.)

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[theo42]

Where are the arguments now that Simmons is on a winning team and Mitchell is not?

The Jazz have quietly moved into 5th place in the West by going 21-2 in their last 23 games.

The Jazz are 40-30 in the Western Conference while the 76ers are 38-30 in the Least.

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

The rise of the Jazz coincides with Donovan Mitchell with 3 straight Rookie of the Month Awards on his shelf.

(And the return of Gobert, I know. It takes a team to be a good team.)

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I didn't put any weight on it last year when a mediocre player was given it based on that horrible metric and I don't carethis year either.

How did he do head up with Ben this year?

[dukes_wild]

I had Jackson as my #2 overall prospect from this draft class, I'm glad he's starting to play like how I envisioned him

[Cappy_Smurf]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

[mediocrityrules]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

And my man Joe Ingles continues to be the most underrated player in the NBA today!!

The whole Jazz supporting cast are just a step better than Philly's.

[Winglish]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

Agreed. East Coast bias is strong.

If the Jazz were in a big city like New York or Chicago or Miami can you imagine the zoo it would be with their team 21-2 in the last 23?

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[JAYZGOAT]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

Agreed. East Coast bias is strong.

If the Jazz were in a big city like New York or Chicago or Miami can you imagine the zoo it would be with their team 21-2 in the last 23?

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Yup. Sure did help with Saric over Brogdon

[QPR]

Where are the arguments now that Simmons is on a winning team and Mitchell is not?

Is that really the argument though?

The argument is that while Mitchell has been excellent, SImmons is having a historic rookie season.

[HartfordWhalers]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

I know it is easy to make generalized statements that miss the mark, but for those that (actually) want to have a more intelligent comment than just calling the East the least, or talking up Utah's harder conference:


Strength of Schedule:
http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

1 Philadelphia .524 38 30 .559 .512 0 7350 7194 40-28 .588
2 Minnesota .526 40 30 .571 .511 0 7678 7511 41-29 .590
Dallas .462 22 48 .314 .511 0 7185 7352 28-42 .406
4 Utah .524 40 30 .571 .508 0 7217 6987 44-26 .631

https://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=nba
5) Philadelphia 0.90
9) Utah 0.77

http://realtimerpi.com/nba/
4) Philadelphia 76ers 38-30
8) Utah Jazz 40-30

I haven't seen anything credible that suggests that Utah has had a tougher schedule so far, that part of the narrative seems just hyperbole without any fact checking.

[QPR]

It is a little bit weird that team record, conference record etc is becoming an argument for ROY.

I remember similar with LeBron vs Melo and Durant vs Horford but usually you're just judging the best rookie individually, not the one who is on the best team.

[GreenBloodedC]

The biggest knock on Tatum, if you could call it that is that he has the privilege of playing with allstars.

Kyrie has been out, while Brown and Smart are not allstars, have been essential to the team are also out, and he's been playing well as of late.

Scored 23 and 5rebs against the Pelicans. If he's in a different situation and needs to assume different role, I believe he would be up there with Mitchell and Simmons in the ROY race.

[Kabookalu]

Tatum is abnormally polished for a 19 year old while also having a wide skillset. Usually for rookies it's one or the other, they're either really polished but limited, or have a wide base but extremely rough around the edges. And when it does happen the rookies are often older (Brandon Roy, Stephen Curry), but Tatum only played a year in college.

[vossy_3]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

Swap Ingles with Covington and Sixers are 3rd in the East whilst Jazz miss the playoffs in the West.

[phifans]

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

I think most fans belive Embiid is better than Gobert and Simmons is better than Mitchell.

Which makes it seem really weird that Utah has the better record in the tougher conference, even with Gobert missing a ton of games.

Basically they are eaqual on records (Philly could very well win the next few games against some weak opponents)

And whats the matter on which conference you are in when Philly basically has the hardest SOS of the league right now.

And you've already answered your own question. The reason why Philly doesn't possess better record is their horrible supporting cast.

[nurseryc]

Where are the arguments now that Simmons is on a winning team and Mitchell is not?

The Jazz have quietly moved into 5th place in the West by going 21-2 in their last 23 games.

The Jazz are 40-30 in the Western Conference while the 76ers are 38-30 in the Least.

Somebody will say Mitchell has Gobert while ignoring that Simmons has Embiid.

The rise of the Jazz coincides with Donovan Mitchell with 3 straight Rookie of the Month Awards on his shelf.

(And the return of Gobert, I know. It takes a team to be a good team.)

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And the incredible emergence of Joe Ingles and the stellar play of Ricky Rubio