Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30

[Bobalob]

I kept tryin to tell people that the Cavs arent trading Kyrie for f'n Carmelo Anthony. They are goign to get a HAUL

Let the bidding war begin #toldyouso

no hauls to be had... that market has dried up, that and the fact the Cavs have zero leverage

So you are of the line of thinking that not many teams out there who are interested in acquiring a 25 year old All-Star, who is under a very reasonable contract for three more seasons?

Ya know? I blame these analytics geeks. The numbers are probably telling them they'd be better of having Ricky Rubio

And im deadass serious

[amcoolio]

Kemba + Lamb + 2019 top 5 protected 1st for Kyrie

I would without the pick, makes it an overpay for a star trying to leave. Kemba is on a great contract for this season and next

[gts1]

I kept tryin to tell people that the Cavs arent trading Kyrie for f'n Carmelo Anthony. They are goign to get a HAUL

Let the bidding war begin #toldyouso

no hauls to be had... that market has dried up, that and the fact the Cavs have zero leverage

So you are of the line of thinking that not many teams out there who are interested in acquiring a 25 year old All-Star, who is under a very reasonable contract for three more seasons?

No I'm just saying that's not a haul for the Cavs... It's a step back when you're trading Kyrie for a unproven rookie potential. It's not a good trade even with the filler required to make it work. Cavs will lose this trade if they make it because everyone in the league knows they are being forced into it.

[HotelVitale]

I kept tryin to tell people that the Cavs arent trading Kyrie for f'n Carmelo Anthony. They are goign to get a HAUL Let the bidding war begin #toldyouso

Just like Butler, George, and Boogie were going to get huge hauls.

I can play too! Just like Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, and Kevin Love were going to get huge hauls.

[Catchall]

So where is the most logical destination?

I personally think Utah. I think Utah can give a nice return of win now players and young assets/picks. I think Kyrie fits exactly what Utah needs since losing Hayward and Utah can really hide Kyrie's defensive flaws. I think it could be a win for all parties.

Jazz would offer Exum, Favors and a pick probably, they'd then need to figure out what to do with Rubio. Or maybe they'd offer Rubio and Favors. As a Jazz fan, I'm just leery of a PG who once had a 30:1 shot:assist ratio. That's not going to fly with Quin Snyder. This looks very much like a Kobe Bryant scenario -- a young star who has already won a championship who wants to prove he can lead a team on his own (even if he can't).

[Catchall]

Bledsoe is the obvious PG to go to Cleveland. The question is whether Kyrie will step up for Phoenix in the next two years when Phoenix is in a rebuild.

[Catchall]

Phx out: Eric Bledsoe
Phx in: Ntilikina, Cle pick

Cle out: Irving, Shumpert, pick
Cle in: Bledsoe, Carmelo

NY out: Carmelo, Ntilikina
NY in: Kyrie

[tundraknight]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-kings-to-offer-deaaron-fox-for-kyrie-irving/

Don't know if this is that reliable but apparently Kings trying to trade for Kyrie

Yeap this was already talked about in the Kyrie thread that's already made.

[jonjames]

I love kyrie but i would be heated as a kings fan if they gave up fox.no way that report has any credibility.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Again proving you're a casual fan. IT is one of the least ball dominant 30 ppg scorers in NBA history. At least check the facts it's not that hard.

Time of Possession / Touches Per Game
2016-17 Isaiah 6.7min /84.7 touches in 33.8min
2015-16 Isaiah 6.2min / 85.3 touches in 32.2min
2013-14 Isaiah 8.0min / 85.1 touches in 34.7min

2016-17 Kyrie 6.4min / 79.0 touches in 35.1min

Again the least ball dominant 30 ppg scorers in NBA hisotry. 30 PPG - get it?

Now you're beginning to annoy me with your ignorance. Having your shamrock green headband fall over your eyes is only cute until you hit the Boston city limits.

1) Isaiah did not average 30ppg. He did not come particularly close to it. He averaged 28.9ppg.
2) gunning up a crapload of shots is not, contrary to belief, actually a sign that you are unselfish, nor does it matter in the least bit for how ball dominant you are.
3) any number of 29pt+ scorers from the past have played less ball dominant games. You may have heard of some of them. Guys like Kareem, or Mailman, or Durant. Dribbling into your offense is problematic when you've got a legendary teammate who does the same.

[NetsDynasty2012]

Time of Possession / Touches Per Game
2016-17 Isaiah 6.7min /84.7 touches in 33.8min
2015-16 Isaiah 6.2min / 85.3 touches in 32.2min
2013-14 Isaiah 8.0min / 85.1 touches in 34.7min

2016-17 Kyrie 6.4min / 79.0 touches in 35.1min

Again the least ball dominant 30 ppg scorers in NBA hisotry. 30 PPG - get it?

Now you're beginning to annoy me with your ignorance. Having your shamrock green headband fall over your eyes is only cute until you hit the Boston city limits.

1) Isaiah did not average 30ppg. He did not come particularly close to it. He averaged 28.9ppg.
2) gunning up a crapload of shots is not, contrary to belief, actually a sign that you are unselfish, nor does it matter in the least bit for how ball dominant you are.
3) any number of 29pt+ scorers from the past have played less ball dominant games. You may have heard of some of them. Guys like Kareem, or Mailman, or Durant. Dribbling into your offense is problematic when you've got a legendary teammate who does the same.

What about Kyrie taking more shots per game last year than IT, despite being a 2nd option?

[RSCD3_]

The knicks probably aren't getting Kyrie if Melo thinks LeBron will leave, I don't know a 3 team trade would work that well tbh

[RCM88x]

Phx out: Eric Bledsoe
Phx in: Ntilikina, Cle pick

Cle out: Irving, Shumpert, pick
Cle in: Bledsoe, Carmelo

NY out: Carmelo, Ntilikina
NY in: Kyrie

I imagine it would be a NYK pick that's included not a Cavs pick, seeing as they don't have any of value.

[Winsome Gerbil]

I know its safer to go with the known product and that Irving is only 25, but for my money the Kings won the offseason. I think they've done a great job of choosing a path and like where they are headed long term. Please, Kings, just be patient and build your team the right way.

+1

Kings have a much better direction than they have had in years......

I'm not going to play both sides of this one too much, but I will just say that the one thing that ALL of these "young teams" need to ever call their rebuild complete, is to find a superstar. And in a small market, that is so very very hard. Unless they get lucky enough to draft one, at some point they will have to gather up a chunk of the youth and resources and go try to buy one. I just don't happen to think that Kyrie is a guy at that level. He was nothing but a selfish chucker leading terrible teams with terrible chemistry before Lebron arrived. Maybe he's improved. But then again, maybe playing next to the greatest player on the planet has made things just a tad easier. And true superstars are normally good at more than just one thing.

So I think it's too early for Sac to be making this play, and the target is not worthy of the cost. One day they will probably have to though. Being a "young team" is highly overrated until you find a major star to lead you. It just means you lose a lot.

[Duke4life831]

So where is the most logical destination?

I personally think Utah. I think Utah can give a nice return of win now players and young assets/picks. I think Kyrie fits exactly what Utah needs since losing Hayward and Utah can really hide Kyrie's defensive flaws. I think it could be a win for all parties.

Jazz would offer Exum, Favors and a pick probably, they'd then need to figure out what to do with Rubio. Or maybe they'd offer Rubio and Favors. As a Jazz fan, I'm just leery of a PG who once had a 30:1 shot:assist ratio. That's not going to fly with Quin Snyder. This looks very much like a Kobe Bryant scenario -- a young star who has already won a championship who wants to prove he can lead a team on his own (even if he can't).

What do you mean 30:1 shot: assist ratio?

I'd say Kobe did pretty good when he was the leader of his own team. He did win 2 more championships after Shaq left. Once Kobe didn't have trash around him and got a good big man, he was back in the WCF or the finals all the time. Gobert is a great big man to pair up with Kyrie.

[Edrees]

This trade is bad for both teams

[Catchall]

I personally think Utah. I think Utah can give a nice return of win now players and young assets/picks. I think Kyrie fits exactly what Utah needs since losing Hayward and Utah can really hide Kyrie's defensive flaws. I think it could be a win for all parties.

Jazz would offer Exum, Favors and a pick probably, they'd then need to figure out what to do with Rubio. Or maybe they'd offer Rubio and Favors. As a Jazz fan, I'm just leery of a PG who once had a 30:1 shot:assist ratio. That's not going to fly with Quin Snyder. This looks very much like a Kobe Bryant scenario -- a young star who has already won a championship who wants to prove he can lead a team on his own (even if he can't).

What do you mean 30:1 shot: assist ratio?

I'd say Kobe did pretty good when he was the leader of his own team. He did win 2 more championships after Shaq left. Once Kobe didn't have trash around him and got a good big man, he was back in the WCF or the finals all the time. Gobert is a great big man to pair up with Kyrie.

In the 2015/16 season, Kyrie had a streak where he took 35 shots without having a single assist.

Kobe's Lakers without Shaq had consecutive first-round exits. It was when the Lakers added Pau Gasol that they became a contender.

Kyrie's wishlist of teams is an odd mix, but I'm not sure if he'd want to play for the Jazz. Hard to say.

[Lalouie]

He also makes Love a better player for them. .

[/quote]

i think people confuse being on a winning team with "playing better". love averaged 34ppg/14rpg/6apg(i think) against gsw in his final year. in his final year he drove minnie to a 40win season which btw minnie hasn't even sniffed since and they might only now surpass. he played better at minnie. he just won more with cavs,,,and give some credit to irving for helping lebron win that ring. all-stars don't have to be enabled by other stars....they're already stars on their own merit.

geezus ferchristssake,give love some credit!!! look at aldridge, who was thought of in the same vein as love. he's had way more freedom to play his natural position while love has been circumcised and pidgeon-holed into someone he wasn't meant to be.

[Bobalob]

I kept tryin to tell people that the Cavs arent trading Kyrie for f'n Carmelo Anthony. They are goign to get a HAUL

Let the bidding war begin #toldyouso

Just like Butler, George, and Boogie were going to get huge hauls.

George had 1 year left on his deal and made it clear he wants to go 'home', Cousins had off the court baggage, and Jimmy Butler is older (and chicago waited 1 year too long)

Kyrie is going to demand bank bet that

[Winsome Gerbil]

Again the least ball dominant 30 ppg scorers in NBA hisotry. 30 PPG - get it?

Now you're beginning to annoy me with your ignorance. Having your shamrock green headband fall over your eyes is only cute until you hit the Boston city limits.

1) Isaiah did not average 30ppg. He did not come particularly close to it. He averaged 28.9ppg.
2) gunning up a crapload of shots is not, contrary to belief, actually a sign that you are unselfish, nor does it matter in the least bit for how ball dominant you are.
3) any number of 29pt+ scorers from the past have played less ball dominant games. You may have heard of some of them. Guys like Kareem, or Mailman, or Durant. Dribbling into your offense is problematic when you've got a legendary teammate who does the same.

What about Kyrie taking more shots per game last year than IT, despite being a 2nd option?

Not sure...what about it?

I mean, that's a bit distorted anyway:

-- Irving played slightly more minutes and so took slightly (VERY slightly) more FGA
-- per 36 Isaiah took slightly (VERY slightly) more FGA. Ditto for per 100 possessions.
-- Isaiah also draws more fouls, so he actually uses several extra possessions a game than Kyrie that don't get counted as FGA


But even with those minor notes, I'm not sure of the point. The dueling hype machines behind little chuckers like Kyrie and Isaiah may try like mad to deny it, but I've never had any illusions: both dudes are among some of the most selfish guys in the league. They want the ball, but they want it for themselves, not their teammates.