NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

dygaction · Post #1881 » by **dygaction** » Sun May 16, 2021 11:54 pm

clyde21 wrote:
dygaction wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
lol if 3 players finish above Steph in the MVP how hard should we laugh?

Easily see Embiid and Giannis, statistically dominate two-way big with much better team records. One of CP3, Randle, and Luka may be ahead depending on what you value more.
NBA official MVP ladder has NEVER had Curry in top 3 in the past 5 weeks. He was #4 for one week.

this whole 'TWO WAY' player arguments need to die a quick death.

I mean, except for 3pt contest, even if we change basketball rule, playing the fastest to 100 pts win, there is still defense...

clyde21 · Post #1882 » by **clyde21** » Sun May 16, 2021 11:57 pm

dygaction wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Easily see Embiid and Giannis, statistically dominate two-way big with much better team records. One of CP3, Randle, and Luka may be ahead depending on what you value more.
NBA official MVP ladder has NEVER had Curry in top 3 in the past 5 weeks. He was #4 for one week.

this whole 'TWO WAY' player arguments need to die a quick death.

I mean, except for 3pt contest, even if we change basketball rule, playing the fastest to 100 pts win, there is still defense...

and the idea that Steph just sits on the sidelines during defensive possessions or anyone else that doesn't constitute a 'two-way' player is hysterical...I'll remember this when we're talking about Luka's future MVP candidacies, keep that same energy.

dygaction · Post #1883 » by **dygaction** » Mon May 17, 2021 12:08 am

clyde21 wrote:
dygaction wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
this whole 'TWO WAY' player arguments need to die a quick death.

I mean, except for 3pt contest, even if we change basketball rule, playing the fastest to 100 pts win, there is still defense...

and the idea that Steph just sits on the sidelines during defensive possessions or anyone else that doesn't constitute a 'two-way' player is hysterical...I'll remember this when we're talking about Luka's future MVP candidacies, keep that same energy.

LOL, easy man, "statistically dominate two-way big with much better team records", you dropped the "much better team records" part. No matter Luka or Curry, there is not much argument if you don't have overwhelming stats dominance but fall short on team record. I am holding this rule for Luka and think it is totally reasonable for someone to vote Giannis over Luka with a difference of 4 wins.

northoakland510 · Post #1884 » by **northoakland510** » Mon May 17, 2021 1:29 am

If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

Big J · Post #1885 » by **Big J** » Mon May 17, 2021 3:39 am

If Joker ends up winning over Curry, long term it will be viewed similarly to Nash’s MVP win over Kobe in 06.

Strepbacter · Post #1886 » by **Strepbacter** » Mon May 17, 2021 3:50 am

Big J wrote:If Joker ends up winning over Curry, long term it will be viewed similarly to Nash’s MVP win over Kobe in 06.

You can't be serious. Kobe crushed Nash statistically, Joker beats Curry virtually across the board.

Post #1887 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 17, 2021 3:57 am

Big J wrote:If Joker ends up winning over Curry, long term it will be viewed similarly to Nash’s MVP win over Kobe in 06.

As an affront to people who think Kobe was more effective than he was? I'll take your word for it. 8-)

As someone who thinks you overrate Kobe and think Curry is a GOAT-threat far more than Kobe or Jokic, Steph is not first on my ballot this year.

It's an award about what a guy does for the whole year, not about how good he is over some chunk of the season even if that chunk of the season feels like it defines everything for you. Much as with '05-06 Kobe, Curry has had a swath of time when he's been clearly the most valuable player in the league, and during that time the team has won at a good clip, but his team is in the 7th/8th seed bucket because the rest of the year happened too.

I will say this: In a very real way, Kerr's insistence on playing the way he did with players who didn't know how to play that way probably kept Curry from being my MVP. Might even be as simple as keeping Oubre & Wiseman nailed to the bench. It's not fair, but the reality is that with those guys gumming up the works, not even Steph was keeping the ship afloat.

eathb_au · Post #1888 » by **eathb_au** » Mon May 17, 2021 4:03 am

dygaction wrote:
cpower wrote:
eathb_au wrote:Yeah you can't really use the Jokic has a good team argument, it's basically MPJ, roleplayers and end of bench players in the rotation.

It's arguably worse than what Curry has right now despite everyone clamouring on about how Curry is carrying a **** team.

MPJ, Gordon, roleplayers and end of bench players >>> Wiggins , roleplayers and dleaguers. If you have a min look at the advance stats the picture will be clear for you. The warriors without Curry is on pace for a 12% winning season.

That's the different between Jokic and Curry and hence difference in team records.
1. Jokic makes teammates better shooters by delivering ammos to the right location at the right time. Curry only makes them more open. There is a gap in playmaking abilities even though Jokic is a C while Curry is a PG.
2. Jokic does not miss games, so you don't know how good/bad Nuggets would be without him.

BTW, You cannot drop Draymond as if he were not one of the teammates. He is better than Gordon in almost every aspect... At the end, Jokic may have better supporting cast, but he also delivered many more wins.

Even including MPJ here is a stretch, 70% of the guy's (MPJ) field goal makes are assisted.

Guess who is the system that is making those assists?

I think it's fair to say that in a hypothetical sense, Wiggins would benefit a lot from playing with Jokic.

eathb_au · Post #1889 » by **eathb_au** » Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 am

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/edit?usp=sharing

This spreadsheet is keeping track of announced votes and Jokic is 12/12 for MVp so far.

eathb_au · Post #1890 » by **eathb_au** » Mon May 17, 2021 4:07 am

northoakland510 wrote:If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

Jokic's playoff numbers are elite, stop this nonsense.

jc23 · Post #1891 » by **jc23** » Mon May 17, 2021 4:38 am

Jokic doesnt get lebrons vote for MVP, but he was also making an eventual laker win seem more impressive by calling Curry the MVP.

KGtabake · Post #1892 » by **KGtabake** » Mon May 17, 2021 4:57 am

northoakland510 wrote:If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

1. Embiid's and Jokic's stats are great in the playoffs.
2. Have you checked Gianni's career averages in the playoffs? They're significantly better than his regular season career averages.

We need to actually post facts.
Embiid had problem with Gasol 2 years ago but bad games happen to everyone. How many bigs can go nuclear constantly against a Gasol/Ibaka rotation? He couldn't rest, sixers didn't have a proper backup.

Giannis faced the wall if miami last season but still ended with averages of 21/11/6(granted on low efficiency in free throws).
How many players can go through Crowder, Butler, Adebayo and Iguodala? Miami had bodies. What was the backup for Giannis? DJ Wilson?

northoakland510 · Post #1893 » by **northoakland510** » Mon May 17, 2021 5:03 am

KGtabake wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

1. Embiid's and Jokic's stats are great in the playoffs.
2. Have you checked Gianni's career averages in the playoffs? They're significantly better than his regular season career averages.

We need to actually post facts.
Embiid had problem with Gasol 2 years ago but bad games happen to everyone. How many bigs can go nuclear constantly against a Gasol/Ibaka rotation? He couldn't rest, sixers didn't have a proper backup.

Giannis faced the wall if miami last season but still ended with averages of 21/11/6(granted on low efficiency in free throws).
How many players can go through Crowder, Butler, Adebayo and Iguodala? Miami had bodies. What was the backup for Giannis? DJ Wilson?

Stats are nice, but how are they impacting the game?

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

dygaction · Post #1894 » by **dygaction** » Mon May 17, 2021 5:12 am

Do we know when the award ballots due? According to Kevin O'Connor, it should be in the next few days, meaning even before we know whether Curry is in playoffs or not.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/5/10/22428481/nba-awards-mvp-nikola-jokic-joel-embiid

dygaction · Post #1895 » by **dygaction** » Mon May 17, 2021 5:20 am

northoakland510 wrote:
KGtabake wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

1. Embiid's and Jokic's stats are great in the playoffs.
2. Have you checked Gianni's career averages in the playoffs? They're significantly better than his regular season career averages.

We need to actually post facts.
Embiid had problem with Gasol 2 years ago but bad games happen to everyone. How many bigs can go nuclear constantly against a Gasol/Ibaka rotation? He couldn't rest, sixers didn't have a proper backup.

Giannis faced the wall if miami last season but still ended with averages of 21/11/6(granted on low efficiency in free throws).
How many players can go through Crowder, Butler, Adebayo and Iguodala? Miami had bodies. What was the backup for Giannis? DJ Wilson?
Stats are nice, but how are they impacting the game?

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

By the age of 24 (last year), Jokic had won 3 playoff series and reached wcf. Not bad before winning his first MVP at 25. I would bet them on a title run had Murray been healthy.

Post #1896 » by **HMFFL** » Mon May 17, 2021 6:38 am

Jokic is the big favorite

Embiid is second

Curry is third. Not even in the same ballpark as far as betting goes.

https://fullpresscoverage.com/2021/05/14/nba-2020-21-mvp-current-odds-favorites-and-contenders/

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

BelgradeNugget · Post #1897 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Mon May 17, 2021 6:45 am

northoakland510 wrote:
KGtabake wrote:
northoakland510 wrote:If you watch the games there is no way you can say Jokic or any of the other dudes in the MVP race can take over a game like Steph. In the playoffs we will see Jokic and Embiid put in the pick and roll constantly and we will see Giannis being forced to shoot. Steph will show there is levels to the game.

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

1. Embiid's and Jokic's stats are great in the playoffs.
2. Have you checked Gianni's career averages in the playoffs? They're significantly better than his regular season career averages.

We need to actually post facts.
Embiid had problem with Gasol 2 years ago but bad games happen to everyone. How many bigs can go nuclear constantly against a Gasol/Ibaka rotation? He couldn't rest, sixers didn't have a proper backup.

Giannis faced the wall if miami last season but still ended with averages of 21/11/6(granted on low efficiency in free throws).
How many players can go through Crowder, Butler, Adebayo and Iguodala? Miami had bodies. What was the backup for Giannis? DJ Wilson?
Stats are nice, but how are they impacting the game?

Sent from my LE2117 using Tapatalk

Man, you are the only one here who was not waching games.

BoatsNZones · Post #1898 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon May 17, 2021 7:46 am

HMFFL wrote:Jokic is the big favorite

Embiid is second

Curry is third. Not even in the same ballpark as far as betting goes.

https://fullpresscoverage.com/2021/05/14/nba-2020-21-mvp-current-odds-favorites-and-contenders/

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Lol this is a nonsense website.

Jokic is the MVP and he is -10000 favorite on any site that will take an actual bet of realistic denomination. Curry and Embiid are both equal value for 2nd on most sites that will take action on said bet.

Jokic is the rightful MVP, and he has been all season.

Mick Dundee · Post #1899 » by **Mick Dundee** » Mon May 17, 2021 8:48 am

eathb_au wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/edit?usp=sharing

This spreadsheet is keeping track of announced votes and Jokic is 12/12 for MVp so far.

Chris Broussard and Tim Bontemps are missing on that Sheet.

Broussard announced it at least two times already and Bontemps is ready to declare War on anyone not willing to vote for Jokic.

Among the few who, in all likelyhood, are not going to vote for Jokic are ..

Rachel Nichols
Ramona Shelbourne
Ric Bucher
Brian Windhorst
Stephen A. Smith
Dave McMenamin

DCasey91 · Post #1900 » by **DCasey91** » Mon May 17, 2021 9:19 am

Mick Dundee wrote:
eathb_au wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/edit?usp=sharing

This spreadsheet is keeping track of announced votes and Jokic is 12/12 for MVp so far.

Chris Broussard and Tim Bontemps are missing on that Sheet.

Broussard announced it at least two times already and Bontemps is ready to declare War on anyone not willing to vote for Jokic.

Among the few who, in all likelyhood, are not going to vote for Jokic are ..

Rachel Nichols
Ramona Shelbourne
Ric Bucher
Brian Windhorst
Stephen A. Smith
Dave McMenamin

Wait those people have votes? Hahahahah that can’t be serious. I know another sport just like that they give it to nuffs nuffs to vote, throws up even weirder results like sometimes they probably forgot the person even played and was the best that game lol.

At least Max Kellerman knows his stuff with boxing you can tell he takes it seriously.

Who be's the MVPs?