The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Cappy_Smurf]

Lol at SOS.

Figured you would make a dumb comment like that -- after first introducing that Utah has played in a harder conference and division now the concept of verifying if it has been harder is too much. As I said, I posted it for a different audience. .

You know what's really dumb, is not realizing playing without Gobert for 2 months is a MUCH bigger factor than a few percentage points in SOS. SOS is nice and all, but if you catch teams like the suns or Hawks or any of the bottom teams on a night when they are hitting their shots, SOS don't mean jack, just like catching one of the better teams on an off night.

Seems like the world starts and stops with numbers for you, when the reality is that they are nice tools that can help, but certainly not a good measure to base all your opinions off of.

If my name was Hartford Whalers, I'd have to assume Mitchell was a better defensive player than Simmons, because the #s tell me so.

I left the debate about which team is better alone and just noted that you were completely speaking out of your ass on strength of schedules.

Lol.

[codydaze]

So what are the all rookie teams looking like?

1st Team:
B. Simmons
D. Mitchell
L. Markannen
J. Tatum
L. Ball

2nd Team:
K. Kuzma
D. Smith
D. Fox
J. Collins
B. Adebayo

Jackson, Bogdanovic, Ntilikina, Allen and Anunoby you could make cases for as well.

[HartfordWhalers]

If my name was Hartford Whalers, I'd have to assume Mitchell was a better defensive player than Simmons, because the #s tell me so.

You seem to be trying really hard at being statistically unaware.

There are plenty of great posts on what are good defensive metrics. And there are people that can have a serious discussion on this site. But you aren't one of them, and continually posting lol and a meme/gif isn't a serious post.

[deflated]

Then that's because you don't have the proper appreciation for Defense. Covington guards 1-4, including All-star 1's in the guts of the game. Brett Brown can't even take the guy off the court for rest because the defense is sunk whenever he's not out there.

Covington can't get a rest because the Sixers bench has been a dumpster fire for most of the season. The threat of having to play Jerryd Bayless will make a coach do unnatural things.

Personally I'd really like Ingles fit on the Sixers. A step down in defence (but the drop in fouls would be a nice change), much better passing and the crazy efficiency from the perimeter. The passing game with Simmons, Ingles, Saric and Embiid would be so slick; assists for everyone.

Bayless has nothing to do with Covington's rest. Covington is an impact defender, who makes a difference when he's on the court. Same as Marcus Smart and Roberson, except Covington can also hit 3's at a league average. Nobody's typical bench players replace that. The 76ers are particularly vulnerable when Covington sits, because 2/5's of the starting lineup (Saric and Redick) can't guard anybody.

I respectfully disagree. Finding bench players who are not a huge net negative should not be as difficult as the Sixers have made it out to be. If the problem is playing with Saric and Redick then punt on offence and play a d-only hustle guy as those two can score enough against bench units.

Covington is essential to the Sixers starting unit being very good; he shouldn't also have to play against the other teams bench because the alternative has been crap.

[Clyde Frazier]

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[QPR]

Triple double #9 for Ben, with no turnovers. He is something.

Also scored or assisted every point on a late 13-0 run in a tie game.

[APettyJ]

Triple double number nine for Mr. Simmons.

[LordCovington33]

11/12/15/3 tonight for Simmons

[CoreyGallagher]

Haven't posted a stat line in a while, but was a good game.

Simmons with 11 points, 13 rebounds, 15 assists, 3 steals, and 0 turnovers. +30 in 33 minutes.

[Alatan]

Anyone else think that Mitchell is a more versatile player than Simmons?

Simmons does do a lot of things well but i think Mitchell does more.
Mitchell is a good shooter, ball handler, finisher, athlete, man defender, team defender, off ball player, isolation player, shot creator and has impressed me with his play making ability recently.

The guy does everything good. He quickly became my favorite player. He makes a rookie mistake from time to time but once he tightens up his game he will be one of the best players in this league.

No.

You mention a number of things that Mitchell is good at, the only problem with your argument being that Simmons is better. It's a given that Mitchell is the better shooter, but Simmons would be ahead in most of the other qualities that you mentioned.

Well that doesnt prove my argument wrong at all. Even if Simmons was better at most things and he is not.
Being more versatile means that you have more skills at an average or above average level not that you are better at more skills.

That being said i dont think that Simmons is better than Mitchell at many things. Simmons is currently a better defender due to size, a better rebounder again due to size and a better passer but i think Mitchell is quickly developing that aspect of his game. Mitchell, on the other hand is a better scorer and off ball player. It would look like a tie but Mitchell is a good defender and looks like a good passer where Simmons is not good without the ball and is not a good scorer. So even the argument that Simmons is better at more things is invalid.

Simmons currently fills the stat sheet better than Mitchell but i dont think that he is a better player. His rebounds are easily replaceable, his assists are inflated by him being the dominant ball handler and his efficiency is bolstered by the fact that he is not the primary or even secondary scoring option. Again not saying Simmons is not good, he is a legit allstar level player, but i think Mitchell is better.

[NapoleonII]

I know this is a two man race, but can we put Jackson on the voting here? Geeze. He's been killing it every night in at least one category of creating, defense and finishing.

[CoreyGallagher]

I know this is a two man race, but can we put Jackson on the voting here? Geeze. He's been killing it every night in at least one category of creating, defense and finishing.

Poll resets with thread. 100 pages. Soon.

[LordCovington33]

Kuzma looking the goods despite the loss. Any reason Ball took just 4 shots in 37 minutes?

[FinNasty]

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[CoreyGallagher]

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[RB34]

Anyone else think that Mitchell is a more versatile player than Simmons?

Simmons does do a lot of things well but i think Mitchell does more.
Mitchell is a good shooter, ball handler, finisher, athlete, man defender, team defender, off ball player, isolation player, shot creator and has impressed me with his play making ability recently.

The guy does everything good. He quickly became my favorite player. He makes a rookie mistake from time to time but once he tightens up his game he will be one of the best players in this league.

No.

You mention a number of things that Mitchell is good at, the only problem with your argument being that Simmons is better. It's a given that Mitchell is the better shooter, but Simmons would be ahead in most of the other qualities that you mentioned.

Well that doesnt prove my argument wrong at all. Even if Simmons was better at most things and he is not.
Being more versatile means that you have more skills at an average or above average level not that you are better at more skills.

That being said i dont think that Simmons is better than Mitchell at many things. Simmons is currently a better defender due to size, a better rebounder again due to size and a better passer but i think Mitchell is quickly developing that aspect of his game. Mitchell, on the other hand is a better scorer and off ball player. It would look like a tie but Mitchell is a good defender and looks like a good passer where Simmons is not good without the ball and is not a good scorer. So even the argument that Simmons is better at more things is invalid.

Simmons currently fills the stat sheet better than Mitchell but i dont think that he is a better player. His rebounds are easily replaceable, his assists are inflated by him being the dominant ball handler and his efficiency is bolstered by the fact that he is not the primary or even secondary scoring option. Again not saying Simmons is not good, he is a legit allstar level player, but i think Mitchell is better.

It’s funny how you put things like being good off ball ahead of passing, defending and rebounding. Glossing over key aspects of the game because you think they’re replaceable isn’t a good look.

[SkyHookFTW]

How is Simmons not the ROY? Other than scoring, he is simply the better player. On defense he defends 1-4 and plays man D as well as help D. That is very rare for a rookie. It's even rarer to play both as well as he does.

I'd actually be okay if Simmons and Mitchell shared the award. Both are so good they both deserve it.

[mediocrityrules]

15 assists and zero turnovers. That’s what stands out for me on tonight’s game. All in just 33 minutes. Brown continues to not overload him.


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[LordCovington33]

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11 blocks by a rookie... Jaw just dropped.

[michaelm]

Anyone else think that Mitchell is a more versatile player than Simmons?

Simmons does do a lot of things well but i think Mitchell does more.
Mitchell is a good shooter, ball handler, finisher, athlete, man defender, team defender, off ball player, isolation player, shot creator and has impressed me with his play making ability recently.

The guy does everything good. He quickly became my favorite player. He makes a rookie mistake from time to time but once he tightens up his game he will be one of the best players in this league.

No.

You mention a number of things that Mitchell is good at, the only problem with your argument being that Simmons is better. It's a given that Mitchell is the better shooter, but Simmons would be ahead in most of the other qualities that you mentioned.

Well that doesnt prove my argument wrong at all. Even if Simmons was better at most things and he is not.
Being more versatile means that you have more skills at an average or above average level not that you are better at more skills.

That being said i dont think that Simmons is better than Mitchell at many things. Simmons is currently a better defender due to size, a better rebounder again due to size and a better passer but i think Mitchell is quickly developing that aspect of his game. Mitchell, on the other hand is a better scorer and off ball player. It would look like a tie but Mitchell is a good defender and looks like a good passer where Simmons is not good without the ball and is not a good scorer. So even the argument that Simmons is better at more things is invalid.

Simmons currently fills the stat sheet better than Mitchell but i dont think that he is a better player. His rebounds are easily replaceable, his assists are inflated by him being the dominant ball handler and his efficiency is bolstered by the fact that he is not the primary or even secondary scoring option. Again not saying Simmons is not good, he is a legit allstar level player, but i think Mitchell is better.

Mitchell is obviously a great talent and I would have no problem with him being ROTY or co-ROTY.

I don’t accept as an argument that Simmons is only better at rebounding, defence or whatever because he is taller or that he gets more assists because he is a PG though. That is largely what makes Simmons, he is sufficiently agile and fast with good enough handles and passing to be a starting PG at his size and height just as Mitchell bids fair to be an elite scorer/shooter in the NBA for many years to come. Simmons is the height he is and is likely to remain so, and I see no reason for subtracting positive attributes from either player.