2022 NBA Finals - Game 5 | Golden State Warriors vs. Boston Celtics (GSW 3-2)

[Zeno]

I find it somewhat odd that following almost every Celtics' loss this post-season a large number of people talk about how they think the Celtics are the "better team". Why is a somewhat consistent inability to hold onto to the ball or run your offence late in tight game separated from how people evaluate the quality of a team. What does it mean to say the Celtics are the better team exactly?

[Coxy]

The biggest play of game 5 was when Wiggins secured the rebound over everyone else and found Poole for the open 3 at the end of the third quarter.

Big time momentum shifting play. Warriors ran away with it after that.

A couple of players mentioned how important that was. The Warriors played their worst 3rd quarter of the playoffs, so to go into the 4th with the lead was a huge uplift for the group.

That small battle win went a long way to winning the war.

[celticfan42487]

I find it somewhat odd that following almost every Celtics' loss this post-season a large number of people talk about how they think the Celtics are the "better team". Why is a somewhat consistent inability to hold onto to the ball or run your offence late in tight game separated from how people evaluate the quality of a team. What does it mean to say the Celtics are the better team exactly?

Probably makes for a better story and makes things more interesting.

No one wants to say Curry is doing this with the better team yet again. And if someone believes that as a neutral then there's not much reason to watch.

[BayArea408415]

Real numbers this series:

Fouls called:
Boston. 81
Golden State 105

FTAs
Boston 107
Golden State 80

The Celtics being the more physical team would suggest more FT’s but the Warriors also have 24 more fouls.

[CS707]

Both teams have the ability to look like a clear cut champion one quarter and a lottery team the next.

[BayArea408415]

Funny. When you get the benefits of the rigged reffing you don’t want to talk about it. Greens 6th foul. Whole games in Boston against GS AND Miami. The good awful free throw and fouls call disparity. Especially when the Celtics are TRYING to be more physical but somehow have far less fouls calls. And then the Smart flop you refernpence. I’ve seen the multi angle slo mo Smart deserved a flop call.

Celtics are the more physical team but have been called for 24 less fouls in the series. He wants to focus on all the calls in the Warriors’ favor while blatantly ignoring everything the Celtics benefitted from. It’s nauseating.

[giberish]

I find it somewhat odd that following almost every Celtics' loss this post-season a large number of people talk about how they think the Celtics are the "better team". Why is a somewhat consistent inability to hold onto to the ball or run your offence late in tight game separated from how people evaluate the quality of a team. What does it mean to say the Celtics are the better team exactly?

While most people had the series as pretty even going in, obviously some had Boston as clear favorites. For those people the simplest explanation for Boston losing games is Celtic underachievement.

There's probably a few others who consider Golden State a great offensive team with a mediocre defense, so for them any Boston offensive issues can't be from the Warriors defense but rather Celtic underachievement/mistakes.

[mdonnelly1989]

The Bucks fans here crying about Middleton's injury is the height of irony.

The only reason the Bucks even made the Finals last year is because Giannis undercut Kyrie and the Harden injury. They were losing by 50 without that injury. and still got pushed to OT of Game 7.

They were also down to ATL in the series till Trae Young got injured.

I'm not convinced the Bucks are better than the Celtics fully healthy anyway. Celtics will be the favorites to win the East next year.

Golden State was the best team in the league. People just didn't get it.

Both things can be true. Bucks probably don't beat Nets with Irving and KD and Celtics probably don't beat Bucks with Middleton. I don't know how you figure the Celts are the favorites next year in the East though especially with Middleton/Holiday getting a normal off-season(Olympics) and Giannis possibly getting better. Not to mention your own team having Irving available now on a full time basis and Simmons actually taking the floor next year. And if Harden ever decides to take the off-season seriously and his conditioning maybe Philly looks better too. The problem with the Celtics and its evident now is their offense when Tatum and Brown aren't going iso. Who's even their 3rd best scorer when those guys aren't hitting cause right now it just seems like its by committee right now.

Celtics are the favorites to me. Bucks had a mediocre regular season and were not good defensively.

Celtics were basically far and away the best team in the East after their poor start. Which carried into the playoffs.

I expect Tatum/Brown to keep getting better. Bucks have basically reached their ceiling.

Maybe Bucks come back strong and win 60+ games. I wouldn't be surprised. I just think as of now Celts are the favorites.

And yeah I don't have much faith in the Nets until I see Simmons/Kyrie play a full season. They have the talent. But thats not enough.

Harden is done. I don't think hes ever back to the player he was.

Celtics do have offensive problems. But to me the solution is for Tatum/Brown to be more consistent. And perhaps to add more shooting. They are very close. Warriors are just slightly better.

From an outsiders POV, I don't see Boston defeating Bucks with a health Middelton. He gives you close to 20 PPG, and is the 1B closer. I know the game isn't played on paper, but all signs point to them beating Boston who had little answers for Giannis.

It's hard to count out Boston as a contender as the team to beat next year, but IMO I think Bucks with the best player in the league are the team to beat followed by Boston.

[Infinite Llamas]

Still so much salt from previous series.

The Celtics would not have even made it to the finals without dozens of undeserved calls and no calls going their way.

It must be so nice to just make up stuff and pass it off in your mind as a truth. I’m envious of this skill.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Both things can be true. Bucks probably don't beat Nets with Irving and KD and Celtics probably don't beat Bucks with Middleton. I don't know how you figure the Celts are the favorites next year in the East though especially with Middleton/Holiday getting a normal off-season(Olympics) and Giannis possibly getting better. Not to mention your own team having Irving available now on a full time basis and Simmons actually taking the floor next year. And if Harden ever decides to take the off-season seriously and his conditioning maybe Philly looks better too. The problem with the Celtics and its evident now is their offense when Tatum and Brown aren't going iso. Who's even their 3rd best scorer when those guys aren't hitting cause right now it just seems like its by committee right now.

Celtics are the favorites to me. Bucks had a mediocre regular season and were not good defensively.

Celtics were basically far and away the best team in the East after their poor start. Which carried into the playoffs.

I expect Tatum/Brown to keep getting better. Bucks have basically reached their ceiling.

Maybe Bucks come back strong and win 60+ games. I wouldn't be surprised. I just think as of now Celts are the favorites.

And yeah I don't have much faith in the Nets until I see Simmons/Kyrie play a full season. They have the talent. But thats not enough.

Harden is done. I don't think hes ever back to the player he was.

Celtics do have offensive problems. But to me the solution is for Tatum/Brown to be more consistent. And perhaps to add more shooting. They are very close. Warriors are just slightly better.

From an outsiders POV, I don't see Boston defeating Bucks with a health Middelton. He gives you close to 20 PPG, and is the 1B closer. I know the game isn't played on paper, but all signs point to them beating Boston who had little answers for Giannis.

It's hard to count out Boston as a contender as the team to beat next year, but IMO I think Bucks with the best player in the league are the team to beat followed by Boston.

No answers to Giannis?

They kept him to 43% shooting when all his points come at the rim. And he was terrible in Game 7.

If you think Middleton who isn't even All Star will make up the difference, I disagree.

Celtics have a weak bench which they will obviously improve. And their young guys will get better.

Both Holiday and Middleton are injury prone anyway.

[Teen Girl Squad]

I find it somewhat odd that following almost every Celtics' loss this post-season a large number of people talk about how they think the Celtics are the "better team". Why is a somewhat consistent inability to hold onto to the ball or run your offence late in tight game separated from how people evaluate the quality of a team. What does it mean to say the Celtics are the better team exactly?

The media has been doing this as well (even the good guys). It may just be a novelty thing but its shocking how heavily the discourse has leaned towards "The Celtics are a [vastly superior] team and its mainly, if not exclusively, self-inflicted issues preventing them from cruising towards a championship." I know the stats back it up somewhat and given better health, the Celtics are probably a slightly better team, but I can't recall the last finals (with even matched teams) where the discourse was so heavily slanted in that way. Its not that they think the Celtics are clearly much better, just the weird nature of the discourse.

[Muggamills]

Celtics are the favorites to me. Bucks had a mediocre regular season and were not good defensively.

Celtics were basically far and away the best team in the East after their poor start. Which carried into the playoffs.

I expect Tatum/Brown to keep getting better. Bucks have basically reached their ceiling.

Maybe Bucks come back strong and win 60+ games. I wouldn't be surprised. I just think as of now Celts are the favorites.

And yeah I don't have much faith in the Nets until I see Simmons/Kyrie play a full season. They have the talent. But thats not enough.

Harden is done. I don't think hes ever back to the player he was.

Celtics do have offensive problems. But to me the solution is for Tatum/Brown to be more consistent. And perhaps to add more shooting. They are very close. Warriors are just slightly better.

From an outsiders POV, I don't see Boston defeating Bucks with a health Middelton. He gives you close to 20 PPG, and is the 1B closer. I know the game isn't played on paper, but all signs point to them beating Boston who had little answers for Giannis.

It's hard to count out Boston as a contender as the team to beat next year, but IMO I think Bucks with the best player in the league are the team to beat followed by Boston.

No answers to Giannis?

They kept him to 43% shooting when all his points come at the rim. And he was terrible in Game 7.

If you think Middleton who isn't even All Star will make up the difference, I disagree.

Celtics have a weak bench which they will obviously improve. And their young guys will get better.

Both Holiday and Middleton are injury prone anyway.

I mean the bucks only needed one more win… i say missing their second best player is a huge difference

[Garbanzo]

I'm so **** sick of people whining out refs. It makes message boards like this unbearable for me. I basically only comment on non-game threads because it's just insufferable on here.

I think the refs have been fine this series. There is a human element to it. They miss some calls. There are times where they get tricked by something. They fall for a flop. They maybe assume something was a flop when it wasn't. That's going to happen, fans need to get over it.

Only time I ever get annoyed with refs is when you get a few of those human errors bunched up in one team's favor to where it manufactures some momentum. I thought the early 4th last night had a stretch like that. The missed pushoff on Klay pushed a 5 point lead to 8 when it should have been his 5th foul early in the 4th. (And yes Smart exaggerated the contact, but there was contact to warrant an offensive foul nonetheless.) Then you come down and call an incredibly weak technical on Smart. Then you fall for a Jordan Poole flop right after the technical. And you call a delay of game on the Celtics there. Like that was just a very weird stretch there. Tony Brothers has had issues with Celtics before and that just seemed like a stretch where he made it personal and really sought to hurt the Celtics. That was honestly one of the weirder stretches of reffing I can recall in the Finals. That was my only gripe last night that I'll hang on to.

At the same time, if you're the Celtics, STOP getting into it with the refs so heavily that they have any reason to make it personal. And STOP focusing on that vs playing the game. The back and forth I described above was a 1-2 minute stretch in a 48 minute game and they played like garbage for most of it. You got the short end of the stick there, they helped give GS some momentum... cry me a **** river. If the Celtics played their hearts out and lost a nail-biter then maybe I'd be in the mood to hear about how the refs impacted them there. But they played like trash and lost accordingly so I don't want to hear it.

Funny. When you get the benefits of the rigged reffing you don’t want to talk about it. Greens 6th foul. Whole games in Boston against GS AND Miami. The good awful free throw and fouls call disparity. Especially when the Celtics are TRYING to be more physical but somehow have far less fouls calls. And then the Smart flop you refernpence. I’ve seen the multi angle slo mo Smart deserved a flop call.

You do understand though that Celtics players foul less as they have amazing defensive players and almost don't have weak defensive match ups, right?

GS also move the ball much better than the Celtics, so they get open lay ups, or they shot jumpers.
Hard to get foul calls when you shot jumpers and open lay ups.

Miami for once, was twice as physical as Boston were in their series. Kudos to them.

[al bondiga]

Warriors Icona want to win it in seven, in front of home fans , they are playing with fire

[HoopsterJones]

From an outsiders POV, I don't see Boston defeating Bucks with a health Middelton. He gives you close to 20 PPG, and is the 1B closer. I know the game isn't played on paper, but all signs point to them beating Boston who had little answers for Giannis.

It's hard to count out Boston as a contender as the team to beat next year, but IMO I think Bucks with the best player in the league are the team to beat followed by Boston.

No answers to Giannis?

They kept him to 43% shooting when all his points come at the rim. And he was terrible in Game 7.

If you think Middleton who isn't even All Star will make up the difference, I disagree.

Celtics have a weak bench which they will obviously improve. And their young guys will get better.

Both Holiday and Middleton are injury prone anyway.

I mean the bucks only needed one more win… i say missing their second best player is a huge difference

Agreed. Imagine the Grayson Allen and George Hill minutes going to Middleton instead. Huge upgrade offensively AND defensively.

[Marvin Martian]

Can't believe GS is one win away from being champions....and this was a retooling year. They weren't even trying to contend.

[rocketsfan100]

Jason Tatum has shrunk in big times of the series. The Celtics also lack a legit point guard.If the Celtics had a half decent point guard instead of Smart a dumbass who commits turnovers with Tatum like it’s in vogue

[mdonnelly1989]

Jason Tatum has shrunk in big times of the series. The Celtics also lack a legit point guard.If the Celtics had a half decent point guard instead of Smart a dumbass who commits turnovers with Tatum like it’s in vogue

Imagine if they had a player like 2011 Jason Kidd where Marcus Smart could come off the bench.

[rocketsfan100]

Jason Tatum has shrunk in big times of the series. The Celtics also lack a legit point guard.If the Celtics had a half decent point guard instead of Smart a dumbass who commits turnovers with Tatum like it’s in vogue

Imagine if they had a player like 2011 Jason Kidd where Marcus Smart could come off the bench.

This series would be over by now if they had even an above average playmaker who could get them easier shots. It’s obvious to anyone with a couple of functioning eyes how badly they are missing playmaker…… It’s an abomination watching Smart trying to be a playmaker.

[PizzaSteve]

I'm so **** sick of people whining out refs. It makes message boards like this unbearable for me. I basically only comment on non-game threads because it's just insufferable on here.

I think the refs have been fine this series. There is a human element to it. They miss some calls. There are times where they get tricked by something. They fall for a flop. They maybe assume something was a flop when it wasn't. That's going to happen, fans need to get over it.

Only time I ever get annoyed with refs is when you get a few of those human errors bunched up in one team's favor to where it manufactures some momentum. I thought the early 4th last night had a stretch like that. The missed pushoff on Klay pushed a 5 point lead to 8 when it should have been his 5th foul early in the 4th. (And yes Smart exaggerated the contact, but there was contact to warrant an offensive foul nonetheless.) Then you come down and call an incredibly weak technical on Smart. Then you fall for a Jordan Poole flop right after the technical. And you call a delay of game on the Celtics there. Like that was just a very weird stretch there. Tony Brothers has had issues with Celtics before and that just seemed like a stretch where he made it personal and really sought to hurt the Celtics. That was honestly one of the weirder stretches of reffing I can recall in the Finals. That was my only gripe last night that I'll hang on to.

At the same time, if you're the Celtics, STOP getting into it with the refs so heavily that they have any reason to make it personal. And STOP focusing on that vs playing the game. The back and forth I described above was a 1-2 minute stretch in a 48 minute game and they played like garbage for most of it. You got the short end of the stick there, they helped give GS some momentum... cry me a **** river. If the Celtics played their hearts out and lost a nail-biter then maybe I'd be in the mood to hear about how the refs impacted them there. But they played like trash and lost accordingly so I don't want to hear it.

Funny. When you get the benefits of the rigged reffing you don’t want to talk about it. Greens 6th foul. Whole games in Boston against GS AND Miami. The good awful free throw and fouls call disparity. Especially when the Celtics are TRYING to be more physical but somehow have far less fouls calls. And then the Smart flop you refernpence. I’ve seen the multi angle slo mo Smart deserved a flop call.

You do understand though that Celtics players foul less as they have amazing defensive players and almost don't have weak defensive match ups, right?

GS also move the ball much better than the Celtics, so they get open lay ups, or they shot jumpers.
Hard to get foul calls when you shot jumpers and open lay ups.

Miami for once, was twice as physical as Boston were in their series. Kudos to them.

Too funny. A good friend shoots these games as a pro photographer. She posted great photos on FB. I am looking at photos of Smart and JT with fistfulls of jersey and arms wrapped around Curry etc. Really, get in there and see with eyes. These games are covered from all angles and it is there to see. Boston is not magically physical without fouling. You've been trained to accept it by the non calls.

Wish I could post them but copyrights to ANG. That said, the level of physicality, when captured in stills is jaw dropping. We should all pay more attention to great still photos of these series. Amazing stuff.