2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

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Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)

Stephen Curry
14
5%
Nikola Jokic
111
39%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
75
26%
Kevin Durant
6
2%
Joel Embiid
39
14%
Chris Paul
15
5%
Ja Morant
8
3%
Rudy Gobert
3
1%
DeMar Derozan
7
2%
LeBron James
10
3%
 
Total votes: 288

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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1921 » by xdrta+ » Sat Feb 5, 2022 11:49 pm

KGtabake wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
He REACTS like an enforcer, lets not pretend like any of his "dirty" fouls didn't come right after an uncalled hack.

I don't call Giannis dirty because of that bush-league move he pulled on a jump shooter years ago...because he did it in REACTION to a dirty play.


So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


Well, it's perfectly fine with me because it was a Morris brother.
In my eyes, Jokic should win the MVP for that alone.


Nice.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1922 » by LikeABosh » Sat Feb 5, 2022 11:51 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
KGtabake wrote:

We are witnessing true greatness.
It's a comfort to know that it's about a truly great person as well.
Can't imagine how can someone dislike the guy.
Hopefully this is the last season that Denver has so many problems.


A lot of people consider him dirty fwiw. So I definitely can see why they dislike him

Dude gives enforcer level fouls even though he's a superstar :lol:


He REACTS like an enforcer, lets not pretend like any of his "dirty" fouls didn't come right after an uncalled hack.

I don't call Giannis dirty because of that bush-league move he pulled on a jump shooter years ago...because he did it in REACTION to a dirty play.


I don't call Jokic dirty either. I was responding to the "can't imagine how someone can dislike him" comment. Seems like a lot of people are giving him the dirty player reputation because of his hard fouls (usually done out of frustration). With Morris being out for this long, that perception of him has become more noticeable on this board and others
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1923 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Feb 6, 2022 12:06 am

xdrta+ wrote:So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


So, felt like I should comment on this:

First thing I want to say is that I don't like how the NBA is being so lenient with punishment right now. This thing where a guy breaking rules with violence that causes injury only results in a 1 game suspension needs to stop. I don't think it's clear what the suspension for a Jokic or Grayson Allen play, but it feels like the NBA isn't really grappling with it. The NBA of David Stern was known for overreacting to stuff like this, and I don't want to go back to that ridiculous era, but I think there's a middle ground we can find.

And I'll tell you: If something like this made you refuse to consider Jokic for MVP, I really wouldn't have a problem with that...but I'm not comfortable ignoring a player who is actually playing when I do these evaluations.

But over to the Morris side, let me acknowledge that my first reaction toward him here was devoid of sympathy. The Morris brothers aren't just random NBA players, they have among the very worst reputations in the league as violent bullies, and so I really can't get behind the idea the foul against Jokic by Markieff was just an innocent thing. They were clearly doing the whole "make'em have to hurt, even if they beat you" thing, and when you do that, and the other person reacts, you brought it upon yourself. And when you bring it on yourself, and then afterward you continue to insult and threaten the guy you started this s**t with, you just make it that much easier for me to roll my eyes at you.

Then there's the matter of doing the quick dirty foul and walking away with your back to the guy. Morris was clearly thinking then - and has said so explicitly later - that if Jokic responded and hit him when he was walking away, that Jokic would be the one who looked weak. But that logic only works if you first stick around and dare the guy to get you from the front. When you turn your back right away, you're just making your body uniquely vulnerable to a counterattack...

Which is of course why Morris got so badly hurt despite Jokic clearly not actually attacking him like he would if were a more serious fight. If you really want to hurt somebody, you don't just shoulder check him. But when you turn your back on a guy you risk getting whiplash even from a shoulder push, particularly when the guy is a lot bigger than you...which is why you would never do this to a guy much bigger than you if you were just in some random place and focused on making sure you were protecting yourself.

But with all that said:

I hate that Markieff has been derailed like he has for so long now. I hope he gets back to 100% with godspeed, and if Jokic only got a short suspension because it was a first offense, well, Jokic needs to have a much more severe punishment if he ever hurts someone with non-basketball action on the court again.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1924 » by KGtabake » Sun Feb 6, 2022 12:06 am

xdrta+ wrote:
KGtabake wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


Well, it's perfectly fine with me because it was a Morris brother.
In my eyes, Jokic should win the MVP for that alone.


Nice.


Thanks.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1925 » by Hobo4President » Sun Feb 6, 2022 12:43 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
A lot of people consider him dirty fwiw. So I definitely can see why they dislike him

Dude gives enforcer level fouls even though he's a superstar :lol:


He REACTS like an enforcer, lets not pretend like any of his "dirty" fouls didn't come right after an uncalled hack.

I don't call Giannis dirty because of that bush-league move he pulled on a jump shooter years ago...because he did it in REACTION to a dirty play.


So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


Yes
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1926 » by xdrta+ » Sun Feb 6, 2022 1:08 am

Hobo4President wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
He REACTS like an enforcer, lets not pretend like any of his "dirty" fouls didn't come right after an uncalled hack.

I don't call Giannis dirty because of that bush-league move he pulled on a jump shooter years ago...because he did it in REACTION to a dirty play.


So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


Yes


Well, that says more about you than about Jokic.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1927 » by scrabbarista » Sun Feb 6, 2022 1:47 am

Alatan wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Jokic took the fourth-most shots on the team tonight and still scored six more points than his closest teammate. Might wanna rearrange the pecking order there.


Jokic is playing through an injury. He was questionable for the Minesota game because of right toe injury and missed the Jazz game.


Yeah, this season feels like a real Alamo for Denver. It's been hopeless all along, but Jokic has been a marvel to behold all season long. Even .500 would be amazing, but what the team has done so far is incredible.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1928 » by Cubbies2120 » Sun Feb 6, 2022 2:02 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
A lot of people consider him dirty fwiw. So I definitely can see why they dislike him

Dude gives enforcer level fouls even though he's a superstar :lol:


He REACTS like an enforcer, lets not pretend like any of his "dirty" fouls didn't come right after an uncalled hack.

I don't call Giannis dirty because of that bush-league move he pulled on a jump shooter years ago...because he did it in REACTION to a dirty play.


So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


I'm absolutely ok with it, go back to those threads, I posted a screenshot of the elbow to the ribs AND the knee to knee contact he initiated while Jokic had all his weight on one leg.

Dangerous, bush league play by Morris elicits the same response. The man is an absolute moron for making a dirty hit then turning his back acting like he's innocent.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1929 » by falcolombardi » Sun Feb 6, 2022 2:10 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


So, felt like I should comment on this:

First thing I want to say is that I don't like how the NBA is being so lenient with punishment right now. This thing where a guy breaking rules with violence that causes injury only results in a 1 game suspension needs to stop. I don't think it's clear what the suspension for a Jokic or Grayson Allen play, but it feels like the NBA isn't really grappling with it. The NBA of David Stern was known for overreacting to stuff like this, and I don't want to go back to that ridiculous era, but I think there's a middle ground we can find.

And I'll tell you: If something like this made you refuse to consider Jokic for MVP, I really wouldn't have a problem with that...but I'm not comfortable ignoring a player who is actually playing when I do these evaluations.

But over to the Morris side, let me acknowledge that my first reaction toward him here was devoid of sympathy. The Morris brothers aren't just random NBA players, they have among the very worst reputations in the league as violent bullies, and so I really can't get behind the idea the foul against Jokic by Markieff was just an innocent thing. They were clearly doing the whole "make'em have to hurt, even if they beat you" thing, and when you do that, and the other person reacts, you brought it upon yourself. And when you bring it on yourself, and then afterward you continue to insult and threaten the guy you started this s**t with, you just make it that much easier for me to roll my eyes at you.

Then there's the matter of doing the quick dirty foul and walking away with your back to the guy. Morris was clearly thinking then - and has said so explicitly later - that if Jokic responded and hit him when he was walking away, that Jokic would be the one who looked weak. But that logic only works if you first stick around and dare the guy to get you from the front. When you turn your back right away, you're just making your body uniquely vulnerable to a counterattack...

Which is of course why Morris got so badly hurt despite Jokic clearly not actually attacking him like he would if were a more serious fight. If you really want to hurt somebody, you don't just shoulder check him. But when you turn your back on a guy you risk getting whiplash even from a shoulder push, particularly when the guy is a lot bigger than you...which is why you would never do this to a guy much bigger than you if you were just in some random place and focused on making sure you were protecting yourself.

But with all that said:

I hate that Markieff has been derailed like he has for so long now. I hope he gets back to 100% with godspeed, and if Jokic only got a short suspension because it was a first offense, well, Jokic needs to have a much more severe punishment if he ever hurts someone with non-basketball action on the court again.


i think is more important to evaluate the action and mot the results when it comes to dirty or injury causing play

some incredibly dirty and dangerous plays may not cause anythingh, a normal basketball mpve can cause a serious injury, which is why i dont like the idea that punishment comes based on whether you caused a injury or not

or put another way, a basketball move that unfortunately ends causing injury shouldnt lead to a suspensión, a dirty basketball move that fortunately doesnt cause anythingh should lead to a suspensión

in that criteria i think grayson allen swipe down contesting caruso is closer to a legitimate basketball move (if a reckless one) than jokic (or morris before that)
but the reaction was a lot harsher to the former

to keep a reputation of fairness nba needs to very carefully and precisely decide what makes a play punishment worthy or not and not just punish whoever player that causes a injury to go along with "popular demand" the reasoning for grayson allen suspensión should not be tied to caruso injury



off topic but this reminds me that i called jokic push as extremely dangerous months ago, both here and in pc board and most people told me i was overreacting.... sudden inpacts like that when you dont expect them are freajking dangerous, that is how people necks ans spines break in car crashes

i REALLY think morris hate made people overlook how jokic push was legit life threatening (not so much as killing morris, "just" a huge danger to his life quality and longterm health)
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1930 » by Hobo4President » Sun Feb 6, 2022 2:26 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Hobo4President wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
So it's OK to react like he did against Markieff Morris, who has now missed 44 games with a spinal injury and who knows if or when he'll play again. Running into him from behind is OK with you, because he didn't like the way he was fouled.


Yes


Well, that says more about you than about Jokic.


Look it's pretty simple, don't hit someone like that and turn your back
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1931 » by xdrta+ » Sun Feb 6, 2022 2:47 am

Hobo4President wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Hobo4President wrote:
Yes


Well, that says more about you than about Jokic.


Look it's pretty simple, don't hit someone like that and turn your back


Ooh, that is simple. Because Morris gave him a nasty foul, and is an awful person, Jokic is justified in crashing into his spine. If it were on the street, he would have been justified in shooting him in the back. Got it.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1932 » by Hobo4President » Sun Feb 6, 2022 3:10 am

xdrta+ wrote:
Hobo4President wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Well, that says more about you than about Jokic.


Look it's pretty simple, don't hit someone like that and turn your back


Ooh, that is simple. Because Morris gave him a nasty foul, and is an awful person, Jokic is justified in crashing into his spine. If it were on the street, he would have been justified in shooting him in the back. Got it.


If it were in the street you'd be justified in hitting him back, yes.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1933 » by MrBigShot » Sun Feb 6, 2022 3:50 am

Giving MVP to anyone other than Jokic or Embiid would be a travesty.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1934 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Sun Feb 6, 2022 4:55 am

MrBigShot wrote:Giving MVP to anyone other than Jokic or Embiid would be a travesty.

https://www.nba.com/game/mil-vs-por-0022100800/box-score

ETA: not saying gainnis deserves it right now but there is a ton of season left. Bucks could be a 1 seed with Gainnis just continuing to dominate.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1935 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Feb 6, 2022 5:15 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=k-66fEawweNaWnXiIGUpsw Lebron with great game. Mvp /s
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1936 » by moderndarwin » Sun Feb 6, 2022 7:49 am

It’s Steph.

Also didn’t realize that Morris was still out because of that Joker retaliation. Good. It’s really weak sauce when people make non basketball fouls to hurt others. Karma.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1937 » by DutchManDanFan » Sun Feb 6, 2022 8:04 am

MrBigShot wrote:Giving MVP to anyone other than Jokic or Embiid would be a travesty.

The Suns are on pace to win 66 games. That’s hard to ignore. If they get to 65 or more CP3 should win it.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1938 » by harlem_ball » Sun Feb 6, 2022 8:06 am

moderndarwin wrote:It’s Steph.

Also didn’t realize that Morris was still out because of that Joker retaliation. Good. It’s really weak sauce when people make non basketball fouls to hurt others. Karma.
Morris is gonna end up suing the crap out of Jokic if his career is in jeopardy.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1939 » by BoatsNZones » Sun Feb 6, 2022 8:25 am

MrBigShot wrote:Giving MVP to anyone other than Jokic or Embiid would be a travesty.

Jokic has the sad story case of the century as he has actually been the best player this season but he can’t get them over the hump to a top seed. Embiid is very popular, but his impact stats and team record don’t measure up. He has no case as the best player in the league, and they’re 8+ games behind actual MVP candidates so
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Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1) 

Post#1940 » by Perseus1966 » Sun Feb 6, 2022 8:52 am

KGtabake wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
KGtabake wrote:
Well, it's perfectly fine with me because it was a Morris brother.
In my eyes, Jokic should win the MVP for that alone.


Nice.


Thanks.

Morris had 6/7 3s last night .
my bad that was the other one
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