2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion

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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1941 » by Michael Lucky » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:17 pm

gmoney411 wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:
BBall Loyalty wrote:Dubs w/o Curry would be a 40 win team so he's adding 20 wins give or take.

Rox w/o Harden (with Dwight missing a bunch of games) would be a 20 win team so he's adding 30 wins give or take.

30 > 20

Simple math.

you do realize that it's much harder to go from 40 wins to 60 than from 30 to 50 much like how it's easier to go from being a 10 win team to a 30 win team? Point being the added wins shouldn't be valued the same.


Why is it much harder to go from 40 to 60 than 30 to 50? I'm not disagreeing but I am curious to hear what people believe that reason is.

let me put another more extreme comparison. What is harder? Going from 40 wins to 60, or 60 to 80 in an 82 game schedule?
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1942 » by gmoney411 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:29 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:you do realize that it's much harder to go from 40 wins to 60 than from 30 to 50 much like how it's easier to go from being a 10 win team to a 30 win team? Point being the added wins shouldn't be valued the same.


Why is it much harder to go from 40 to 60 than 30 to 50? I'm not disagreeing but I am curious to hear what people believe that reason is.

let me put another more extreme comparison. What is harder? Going from 40 wins to 60, or 60 to 80 in an 82 game schedule?


Obviously the latter because you have almost no margin for error.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1943 » by Michael Lucky » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:31 pm

gmoney411 wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
Why is it much harder to go from 40 to 60 than 30 to 50? I'm not disagreeing but I am curious to hear what people believe that reason is.

let me put another more extreme comparison. What is harder? Going from 40 wins to 60, or 60 to 80 in an 82 game schedule?


Obviously the latter because you have almost no margin for error.

There you go. You could put the all NBA team and they wouldn't win 80 games. GS is projected to win 64 games this year. Replace Curry with Harden and does GS get to 64 wins or higher?
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1944 » by gmoney411 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:37 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
Michael Lucky wrote:let me put another more extreme comparison. What is harder? Going from 40 wins to 60, or 60 to 80 in an 82 game schedule?


Obviously the latter because you have almost no margin for error.

There you go. You could put the all NBA team and they wouldn't win 80 games. GS is projected to win 64 games this year. Replace Curry with Harden and does GS get to 64 wins or higher?


It's not the same. There is a huge difference between being able to lose 18-22 games and only being able to lose 2. Once you hit a certain point the difficultly greatly increases. The NBA has 60 win teams most years so I don't think 60 is where it gets incredibly difficult.

And yes I think the Warriors are just as good of a team with Harden subbed in for Curry.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1945 » by PCProductions » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:41 pm

gmoney411 wrote:It's not the same. There is a huge difference between being able to lose 18-22 games and only being able to lose 2. Once you hit a certain point the difficultly greatly increases. The NBA has 60 win teams most years so I don't think 60 is where it gets incredibly difficult.

And yes I think the Warriors are just as good of a team with Harden subbed in for Curry.

His point still stands. There are diminishing returns for team improvement the closer you get to the maximum wins. Improving a 10 win team to 20 wins is a hell of a lot easier than improving a 50 win team to 60. That's just basic statistics more than anything.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1946 » by gmoney411 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:54 pm

PCProductions wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:It's not the same. There is a huge difference between being able to lose 18-22 games and only being able to lose 2. Once you hit a certain point the difficultly greatly increases. The NBA has 60 win teams most years so I don't think 60 is where it gets incredibly difficult.

And yes I think the Warriors are just as good of a team with Harden subbed in for Curry.

His point still stands. There are diminishing returns for team improvement the closer you get to the maximum wins. Improving a 10 win team to 20 wins is a hell of a lot easier than improving a 50 win team to 60. That's just basic statistics more than anything.


You are using extremes in your example too. When you get as low as 10 wins there is much more room for improvement. But when you are talking 30 to 50 and 40 to 60 you are comparing middling teams to high seeded teams. The numbers get a lot closer in the middle. I'm not sure it is a "hell of a lot" harder to go from 40 to 60 compared to 30 to 50. It could actually be harder to get those 20 wins for the 30 win team in certain situations if they are further away from victories than the 40 win team. The 40 win team could be right on the edge and only needs a slight addition to start racking up wins while the 30 win team is much further away. But yes in a vacuum stats would lead us to believe that it's harder to get from 40 to 60 but we would still want to know how much harder that is because it could be a small difference.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1947 » by LBJKBD12 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:09 pm

Even if Curry wins the best player is clearly Harden. I slept on Harden thinking he was overrated he as changed my view this year, i said like many others he is best SG by default. Well Harden is getting there to be ade and Kobe levels especially in the reg season, let's see if he does it in the playoffs.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1948 » by Ballerhogger » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:51 am

Well lebron is right there now with curry and harden for mvp.. Aw man. Not again
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1949 » by HotRocks34 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 am

He's back.

"MVP race is on LeBron's mind"
http://es.pn/1GyySw7

Tonight's showing against the Warriors is likely to help LeBron get a bit more standing in the MVP race, if that is what he's looking for.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1950 » by litex » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:02 am

I don't know if he's MVP, but Lebron James is still very clearly the best player in the NBA
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1951 » by JLei » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:02 am

Obviously with coming out early to shoot and breaking out his post game which he hasn't used all year. This was a statement game.

Just so you don't forget/ a reminder when I want to/ come playoff time, nobody is on my level.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1952 » by MartinToVaught » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:06 am

In a just world, LeBron would have that MVP locked up. Unfortunately, the media hates LeBron and has plenty of excuses to give it to Curry or Harden instead. Hope I'm wrong.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1953 » by HotRocks34 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:08 am

Tonight is not starting out well for the Russell Westbrook case. But there's still a lot of game left for Russ to surge.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1954 » by Hero » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:23 am

I don't think LeBron really should be MVP over Harden and Curry but if can get high profile wins vs both of them, it will certainly help his case. The media are very much prisoners of the moment.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1955 » by Rigamortis » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:28 am

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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1956 » by Benedict_Boozer » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:34 am

JLei wrote:
Just so you don't forget/ a reminder when I want to/ come playoff time, nobody is on my level.


This. Lebron does this now. He's not like the younger Lebron who was balls to the wall every game, but in the marquee matchups against other MVP candidates he seems to bring his best to make the statement I'm still the best in the game.

You see it every time he plays OKC and Durant, and I'll bet you'll see it again against HOU and Harden this Sun.
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1957 » by Zack M » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:26 am

Westbrook having an awful game and still on the verge of a triple double....

he's just something else... :lol:
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1958 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:15 am

gmoney411 wrote:
PCProductions wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:It's not the same. There is a huge difference between being able to lose 18-22 games and only being able to lose 2. Once you hit a certain point the difficultly greatly increases. The NBA has 60 win teams most years so I don't think 60 is where it gets incredibly difficult.

And yes I think the Warriors are just as good of a team with Harden subbed in for Curry.

His point still stands. There are diminishing returns for team improvement the closer you get to the maximum wins. Improving a 10 win team to 20 wins is a hell of a lot easier than improving a 50 win team to 60. That's just basic statistics more than anything.


You are using extremes in your example too. When you get as low as 10 wins there is much more room for improvement. But when you are talking 30 to 50 and 40 to 60 you are comparing middling teams to high seeded teams. The numbers get a lot closer in the middle. I'm not sure it is a "hell of a lot" harder to go from 40 to 60 compared to 30 to 50. It could actually be harder to get those 20 wins for the 30 win team in certain situations if they are further away from victories than the 40 win team. The 40 win team could be right on the edge and only needs a slight addition to start racking up wins while the 30 win team is much further away. But yes in a vacuum stats would lead us to believe that it's harder to get from 40 to 60 but we would still want to know how much harder that is because it could be a small difference.


They are using extremes to simplify a general principle for you, but you also have a point.

What I"d say is that what is generally true is that the better the team already is, the harder it is to improve it. But that doesn't mean it's a given every time.

In the case of Curry the other factor is that its a huge SRS difference we're talking about here. GSW isn't a team lucking into 60 wins, their SRS is absolutely massive. The gap between GSW and Houston with this is as big as the gap between Houston and Boston. And so what I'd say is this: Realistically I seriously doubt anyone talking like yourself actually views Houston as halfway between Golden State and Boston. As such when people say thing s like "yeah but Curry has help", they are imagining Curry's team being a smidge better than Houston, and they chafe at the notion of defaulting to giving the nod to the guy on the better team. And so what I'd want to emphasize is that there has to be a threshold where Curry's team success is big enough to move past the supporting-cast based arguments, and if you don't think GS is ne
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1959 » by Madhouse » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:24 am

Curry right now with a pretty solid lead but GS needs to win at least 60-62
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Re: 2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion 

Post#1960 » by Wonderllama » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:41 am

If the Cavs win 20 more games it has to be LeBron. That would be an insane run though, yet I feel like that's what it's going to take

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